Police brutality and murders.
- Thread starter YerDugliness
- Start date
Jeff Young
GT40s Supporter
Of course it would. If you think black folks are inherently violent, that suggests one solution. If you think the cause of the violence is historical/societal, that suggests another.
And believe me, I'm well aware why you guys don't want to answer that question.
And believe me, I'm well aware why you guys don't want to answer that question.
Allen TX, 4th July weekend - zero shot.
//
Chicago South-side 84 shot 14 dead (two children).
No police involved..............
Chicago South-side this year -- 2100 shot....
No police involved............
Did I mention that Chicago South-side is 93% black, is that your answer?
You are mistaken, blacks have a problem with whites and the cops.
If you don't like the Police, then don't commit crimes and the popo goes away.
Now I have a question: "Why in the world is always looting attached to massive protests?
If the whites had a problem with blacks, we would not have a black President - so simple as that!
Jeff Young
GT40s Supporter
Nice job. Way to discuss the issues.
And the solution is ? I dont see much in the way of a solution comming from the Paddock.
Bob
Bob
Not sure how to address the racial divide...
As for the policing related deaths, a few things come to mind:
Chiefs of Police must express and enforce a zero-tolerance policy for the type of lethal interactions like the two recent incidents that caused the shooting rampage in Dallas. Police should not be allowed to kill with impunity. The public needs to have good reason to believe the culture of violence is diminishing in order to have more confidence in police departments in general.
Police officers should be required to wear body-cams that cannot be turned off or have the recorded content erased and should face serious repurcussions if they are found intentionally removing the devices or obscuring the view they have. Those devices can and will offer proof-positive that lethal force was the only reasonable option, as I admit will be the case at times, but will also offer proof positive when it was not. The public needs to have good reason to believe in police officers in general.
When the evidence is clear that the police acted in a lethal manner without just cause to be " ...in fear for their life" they must be charged with a crime. The public needs to have good reason to believe that the court system will truly be unbiased by racial identity or any misguided belief that police are infallible in their actions.
IMHO public opinion of and confidence in our police organizations is at an all time low and the only way to make a dramatic improvement is to implement dramatic changes.
Cheers!
Doug
As for the policing related deaths, a few things come to mind:
Chiefs of Police must express and enforce a zero-tolerance policy for the type of lethal interactions like the two recent incidents that caused the shooting rampage in Dallas. Police should not be allowed to kill with impunity. The public needs to have good reason to believe the culture of violence is diminishing in order to have more confidence in police departments in general.
Police officers should be required to wear body-cams that cannot be turned off or have the recorded content erased and should face serious repurcussions if they are found intentionally removing the devices or obscuring the view they have. Those devices can and will offer proof-positive that lethal force was the only reasonable option, as I admit will be the case at times, but will also offer proof positive when it was not. The public needs to have good reason to believe in police officers in general.
When the evidence is clear that the police acted in a lethal manner without just cause to be " ...in fear for their life" they must be charged with a crime. The public needs to have good reason to believe that the court system will truly be unbiased by racial identity or any misguided belief that police are infallible in their actions.
IMHO public opinion of and confidence in our police organizations is at an all time low and the only way to make a dramatic improvement is to implement dramatic changes.
Cheers!
Doug
Chris Rock has a suggestion:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2plo4FOgIU
These folks obviously choose to completely ignore the "Be polite" part of his dissertation:
WOW! #BlackLivesMatter Protesters ASSAULT FOX News Reporter in Minneapolis (VIDEO)
...and this vid shows what FOX could have included:
WATCH: "Peaceful Protesters" Assault News Reporter Covering BLM Rally
'Odd, innit...one never sees anyone who's looking for "solutions" in these crowds. CONFRONTATION - yes. But, "solutions"?
Now...imagine you're a LEO who's having bricks, rocks, Molotov cocktails and whatever else thrown at you...or, maybe you're even being shot at. 'Think maybe YOU might be "in fear of YOUR life"?
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Sure I agree, but changes on BOTH sides. Make it a federal offence, minimum sentence 10 years, for an assault of an Law Enforcement Officer.
It's not the police who need to be retrained, it's the public. We have grown into a mouthy, cell phone wielding, vulgar, uncivil society with no personal responsibility and the attitude of 'it's the other person's fault', 'you owe me'. A society where children grow up with no boundaries or knowledge or concern for civil society and personal responsibility. When an officer says "Put your hands up," then put your hands up! Don't reach for something in your pocket, your lap, your seat. There's plenty of reason for a police officer to feel threatened, there have been multiple assaults and ambushes on police officers lately. Comply with requests from the officer, have your day in court. Don't mouth off, or fight, or refuse to comply... that escalates the situation.
Police officers are our sons and daughters, fathers and mothers, brothers and sisters. They're black, white, brown, all colors, all ethnicities, all faiths, male and female, they are us. They see the worst side of humanity... the raped children, the bloody mangled bodies of traffic victims, the bruised and battered victims of domestic violence, homicide victims, body parts... day after day.
They work holidays while we have festive meals with our families. They miss school events with their kids, birthdays, anniversaries, all those special occasions that we take for granted. They work in all types of weather, under dangerous conditions, for relatively low pay.
They have extensive training, but they are human. When there are numerous attacks on them, they become hyper vigilant for a reason, they have become targets. When a police officer encounters any person... any person, whether at a traffic stop, a street confrontation, an arrest, whatever... that situation has the potential to become life threatening. You, Mr & Mrs/Miss Civilian, also have the responsibility of keeping the situation from getting out of control.
Many, the majority, of law enforcement officers are Veterans. They've been in service to this nation most of their lives, whether on the battlefield or protecting us here at home. They are the only thing that stands between us and anarchy in the streets.
If you want to protect your child, teach them respect... for themselves, for you as a parent, for their teachers, for police officers. Police officers do not make the laws, they merely enforce them. If you don't like the law, be proactive in the political process. The police officer doesn't have, or want, the role of judge and jury.
If you get a speeding ticket... were you speeding? Don't blame the cop if you broke the law. Go to court, pay the fine, don't do it again.
It's easy to judge, it's harder to look within oneself and see what your role should be as a citizen, as a responsible person seeing both sides of the issue.
All lives matter, Blue lives matter, too!"
Police officers are our sons and daughters, fathers and mothers, brothers and sisters. They're black, white, brown, all colors, all ethnicities, all faiths, male and female, they are us. They see the worst side of humanity... the raped children, the bloody mangled bodies of traffic victims, the bruised and battered victims of domestic violence, homicide victims, body parts... day after day.
They work holidays while we have festive meals with our families. They miss school events with their kids, birthdays, anniversaries, all those special occasions that we take for granted. They work in all types of weather, under dangerous conditions, for relatively low pay.
They have extensive training, but they are human. When there are numerous attacks on them, they become hyper vigilant for a reason, they have become targets. When a police officer encounters any person... any person, whether at a traffic stop, a street confrontation, an arrest, whatever... that situation has the potential to become life threatening. You, Mr & Mrs/Miss Civilian, also have the responsibility of keeping the situation from getting out of control.
Many, the majority, of law enforcement officers are Veterans. They've been in service to this nation most of their lives, whether on the battlefield or protecting us here at home. They are the only thing that stands between us and anarchy in the streets.
If you want to protect your child, teach them respect... for themselves, for you as a parent, for their teachers, for police officers. Police officers do not make the laws, they merely enforce them. If you don't like the law, be proactive in the political process. The police officer doesn't have, or want, the role of judge and jury.
If you get a speeding ticket... were you speeding? Don't blame the cop if you broke the law. Go to court, pay the fine, don't do it again.
It's easy to judge, it's harder to look within oneself and see what your role should be as a citizen, as a responsible person seeing both sides of the issue.
All lives matter, Blue lives matter, too!"
There is one 'small' thing which I like to mention...there are over 3.8 MILLION arrests made every year in the US.
Pete McCluskey.
Lifetime Supporter
Well said Peter G, cops are human too.
Sadly, Jeff, apparently at least some of the black population agrees with what those living in the Nordics believe.
Seen on a sign held by a black protester at a Black Lives Matter rally today in Wichita, KS: " We are not trying to start a race war, we are trying to end one!".
Agreed...how saddening and embarrasing.
Doug
Jeff, it's exceptionally insulting if you think I or anyone on this board thinks that minorities are somehow genetically inferior or predisposed to crime or violent behavior. The fact that you are suggesting we might, which you're clearly baiting with in your answer #1, demonstrates either profound arrogance/self-righteousness on your part or a propensity to skew our words to fit preconceived notions you might have.
I certainly don't have all the reasons for the propensity for violence in black communities, and neither do you. To be clear, It is multifactorial to be sure and not simply your #1 and #2 (to be clear, violence isn't as prevalent in other minorities). Up until the 60's you could readily state that the primary reason was external oppression. I don't believe that is the case anymore. There are black mayors, congressmen, congresswomen, and senators. Many of these in the south. We have a black supreme court justice and a black president currently. There are many successful and accomplished black people. Your option #2 asserts societal/historical factors are the primary reason. So it is your belief that external forces are still the primary reason? If so, what's your solution?
Jeff Young
GT40s Supporter
No it's not insulting at all. Given the tone of the posting above, it is a question that must be asked. It's a fair and important question, and its fairness and importance is highlighted by the fact (a) it makes most here too uncomfortable to answer and (b) for you, I'll give you credit you did answer, but the fact that you got your heckles up about it is telling.
I think blacks are exactly ZERO percent more likely, as an inherent matter, to be more violent than other races. I think their societal and historical experience in the US has created a self perpetuating underclass of a community that has lower income, lower housing ownership rates, lower educational attainment, higher incarceration rates and higher crime rates than other communities. I think white America created that underclass with some two hundred years of slavery and another one hundred of Jim Crow.
That's not "white guilt". Those are just the historical and contemporary facts.
There is no easy solution. However, step one is realizing and understanding that African Americans start with a significant disadvantage to white Americans, and in many ways have a fundamentally different experience -- with police, in business settings, with banks, with the courts, with universities/schools -- than whites.
Understanding is step one. Posting some of the stuff above is completely counterproductive to progress, as is the idea that white Americans, and white male Americans in particular -- the single most lucky, richest, privileged class of persons in the history of the world -- are the victims of "reverse racism."
Understanding. That's really what most of my African American friends, and in partuclar the professional ones, ask for. That's it. And yet, THIS BOARD makes it clear they don't get that.
I think blacks are exactly ZERO percent more likely, as an inherent matter, to be more violent than other races. I think their societal and historical experience in the US has created a self perpetuating underclass of a community that has lower income, lower housing ownership rates, lower educational attainment, higher incarceration rates and higher crime rates than other communities. I think white America created that underclass with some two hundred years of slavery and another one hundred of Jim Crow.
That's not "white guilt". Those are just the historical and contemporary facts.
There is no easy solution. However, step one is realizing and understanding that African Americans start with a significant disadvantage to white Americans, and in many ways have a fundamentally different experience -- with police, in business settings, with banks, with the courts, with universities/schools -- than whites.
Understanding is step one. Posting some of the stuff above is completely counterproductive to progress, as is the idea that white Americans, and white male Americans in particular -- the single most lucky, richest, privileged class of persons in the history of the world -- are the victims of "reverse racism."
Understanding. That's really what most of my African American friends, and in partuclar the professional ones, ask for. That's it. And yet, THIS BOARD makes it clear they don't get that.
Jeff, you basically accused me of being a racist pig who's ignorant. I should get a little pissed off as I've never given any inclination that I am. You seem to have a default setting that any conservative must be such. Quite frankly, that's bigoted (just for reference, as I'm sure you know, racism is a form of bigotry, but you don't have to be a racist to be a bigot).
I agree with your second and third paragraphs, with one exception. At Universities, blacks have a distinct advantage and are given ample opportunity. The campuses (especially recent examples at Missouri etc) tend to be very liberal and the affirmative action policies favorable.
OK, understanding.....next? 'Cause understanding ultimately isn't going to solve the root problem nor is it a prerequisite. I agree that it should be more prevalent and pervasive though.
I agree with your second and third paragraphs, with one exception. At Universities, blacks have a distinct advantage and are given ample opportunity. The campuses (especially recent examples at Missouri etc) tend to be very liberal and the affirmative action policies favorable.
OK, understanding.....next? 'Cause understanding ultimately isn't going to solve the root problem nor is it a prerequisite. I agree that it should be more prevalent and pervasive though.
Jeff Young
GT40s Supporter
I accused you of nothing. I simply asked a question. Settle down Beavis.
Jeff Young
GT40s Supporter
Think a bit harder on the university part of your post as well too.
Jeff, you're a bigot, i.e. completely intolerant of those whose viewpoints don't coincide with you. I just agreed with two very important paragraphs in your post, yet you don't even acknowledge that because it doesn't fit with the diatribe that conservatives must be racist. Instead, you call me Beavis. Nice try.
Still waiting for a solution beyond simply understanding.
Still waiting for a solution beyond simply understanding.
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