I'm not sure thats the same Goran, used to post really good articles under user name Hemipanter, but I think we have two Gorans here. I could be wrong.
Which is the most correct made replica GT40?
- Thread starter Ulrik
- Start date
I'm not sure thats the same Goran, used to post really good articles under user name Hemipanter, but I think we have two Gorans here. I could be wrong.
No Rick not him. IIRC, there was a some "acrimony" arising out GOX supply and a guy popped up (who was already known to us) claiming he was the US rep by virtue of the fact that he referred to GOX as "WE". When asked about it, everyone became all shy and reluctant to speak. I am sure he was not a million miles away from H&M. Ron may remember him...
I would have thought he was a non starter though to be honest, and it's best to contact Goran directly in his snow bound shed.
The guy your trying to think of is " favgt40 ", from around Nth Carolina.....
Seymour Snerd
Lifetime Supporter
. I've heard the quality is there but is there enough accuracy for historic racing?
Seymour Snerd
Lifetime Supporter
That's why I'm so interested in GOX. My impression was of pricing well above SPF. "Superb" quality at or below SPF pricing is very interesting indeed....
Yes, two different guys.
Hemipanter is Goran Malmberg, who also makes/made custom guitars and amps (including the "star" guitar for ABBA, a guitar for Clapton during his Cream years, and amps for Led Zep). He also wrote a book on building race cars, from chassis design to aero.
GOX is run by Goran Olsson.
Ian
Rick,
Sorry for the confusion, the price I was suggesting was for a GT40R that was ready to go, not a roller.
Just checked Pathfinder Motorsports web site...their price, ready to go racing. $138.5K.
Sorry for the confusion, the price I was suggesting was for a GT40R that was ready to go, not a roller.
Just checked Pathfinder Motorsports web site...their price, ready to go racing. $138.5K.
About Gox (just my humble thoughts / and sorry for spelling problems) :
Goran & co probably uses all his time in his factory and try to make ordered cars ready for delivery, rather than write or explaining things here.
His delivery times seems to be little in the optimistic side. But You must be very optimistic person when You are doing so much work, developing toolings and methods to fulfill that enormous task he has taken. It isn`t easy to control so big ship. Still, Goran got very clear vision about what he is doing.
I think main problems with customers is timing and few missing/"not yet delivered" parts. GOX ain`t plug and play kit. Never thought so either.
When I (we) ordered 3 cars and visited in factory I saw timing isn`t realistic. Didn`t bother me becouse I realised it in first place.
Two cars are delivered long time ago, they were late few months (still missing few small parts but thats not only GOX`s problem - been lazy here).
We are waiting for to collect last car very soon
Goran & co probably uses all his time in his factory and try to make ordered cars ready for delivery, rather than write or explaining things here.
His delivery times seems to be little in the optimistic side. But You must be very optimistic person when You are doing so much work, developing toolings and methods to fulfill that enormous task he has taken. It isn`t easy to control so big ship. Still, Goran got very clear vision about what he is doing.
I think main problems with customers is timing and few missing/"not yet delivered" parts. GOX ain`t plug and play kit. Never thought so either.
When I (we) ordered 3 cars and visited in factory I saw timing isn`t realistic. Didn`t bother me becouse I realised it in first place.
Two cars are delivered long time ago, they were late few months (still missing few small parts but thats not only GOX`s problem - been lazy here).
We are waiting for to collect last car very soon
Russ, Ian, you are correct, thanks for the info. What are the chances of two Goran's?
Fantastic car though...
Rune
Supporter
I do not know witch is the most correct gt40 replica , I know that all parts that I have made on my GOX and put together to a monocoque is according the original drawings. The body is also a "original" as far as I know, but here one can find lots of small differences from the molds they used in the 60´s.
I cannot say what the other builders have as ref to the real cars , but I know for sure that every metal monocoque part in my car will fit directly into the originals.
And GOX is still building cars. I know because I´m in Sweden on GOX factory very often and make parts to my own car.
Rune
I cannot say what the other builders have as ref to the real cars , but I know for sure that every metal monocoque part in my car will fit directly into the originals.
And GOX is still building cars. I know because I´m in Sweden on GOX factory very often and make parts to my own car.
Rune
Jim Rosenthal
Supporter
Like all race cars, the original version of the Ford GT/GT40 went through a lot of updates on its way to becoming World Sports Car Champion for Ford. I get it about the original drawings, and I respect anyone who can READ a set of them, let alone build a chassis from them, but I think it would be fair to say that the design and construction of this series of cars underwent a lot of modifications from the beginning of the program onward. If you look at the original body of the Ford GT, it differs quite a bit from the GT40 we all know and love, especially with respect to the LeMans nose (also designed by Len Bailey, who drew much of the original car from what I understand); there are at least two rear ends with respect to spoilers or the lack thereof, and there are two taillight treatments. And that doesn't even begin to catalog all the changes these cars underwent.
So- when you are asking which is the most original one, it would be wise to specify which historical standard of reference you are attempting to emulate, wouldn't it.
As a final comment, THIS sort of thing is why the restorations done by Robert Ash at Racing Icons are so important; he goes to heroic lengths to find out what a given car looked like in period at the most significant point in its racing career, and then restores the car to look as it did at that time, with all the details correct. This is why cars restored by him have won at Pebble Beach, and this is why he is the best GT40 restorer in the game. It's just too bad that he won't write a book about the ones he's done.
So- when you are asking which is the most original one, it would be wise to specify which historical standard of reference you are attempting to emulate, wouldn't it.
As a final comment, THIS sort of thing is why the restorations done by Robert Ash at Racing Icons are so important; he goes to heroic lengths to find out what a given car looked like in period at the most significant point in its racing career, and then restores the car to look as it did at that time, with all the details correct. This is why cars restored by him have won at Pebble Beach, and this is why he is the best GT40 restorer in the game. It's just too bad that he won't write a book about the ones he's done.
Mike Pass
Supporter
Perhaps the simplest "litmus test" is to submit whatever maker of car in for inspection and see if you can get historic racing papers for it. They can be notably picky.
Or get Ronnie Spain to give it the once over.
For what it's worth, having looked closely at many of these "original" cars I am reminded of the old chestnut of Grandads axe - totally original as it's only had three new heads and six new handles. I also have a friend who "restored" a Maserati 300S from just a bent chassis plate.
Interesting to ponder on where the "rebuilt" GT40 chassis and other bits come from!
Cheers
Mike
Or get Ronnie Spain to give it the once over.
For what it's worth, having looked closely at many of these "original" cars I am reminded of the old chestnut of Grandads axe - totally original as it's only had three new heads and six new handles. I also have a friend who "restored" a Maserati 300S from just a bent chassis plate.
Interesting to ponder on where the "rebuilt" GT40 chassis and other bits come from!
Cheers
Mike
Charlie Farley
Supporter
I think we might be flogging a dead horse here,
Ulrik has not reappeared after posting his initial question.
And so far, not even the faintest hint of a thankyou for all the time taken for the detailed replies. My hunch is this guy is a dreamer.
Ulrik has not reappeared after posting his initial question.
And so far, not even the faintest hint of a thankyou for all the time taken for the detailed replies. My hunch is this guy is a dreamer.
Ooops dept. Check post number 10 Andy and let's see you squirm!
Squirm lahk a pig boy, squirm.....:laugh:
Seymour Snerd
Lifetime Supporter
No, it wouldn't. In fact that would be foolish. Taking that position could lead you to the wrong answer but more likely it would lead to giving up on answering the question at all.
It's a perfectly legitimate question to ask whether one reproduction overall is "closer" to the originals overall, even when there were 100+ originals each with differences. But you do need to be practical about it. Puritanism will get you nowhere, because it's not a mathematically clean problem. You need to consider each feature, give it a weight for how far it deviates from the same feature on the same general kind of GT40 you're trying to build, give it a weight for being internally consistent (eg no accurate Mk II clips on accurate Mk I frames), give it a weight for how much you care about that particular feature (hidden rivet location vs. grill opening shape, for example), and continue that process until every differing feature has been evaluated for each candidate.
For example, if you look carefully at an SPF you can find "features" that never appeared on any real GT40 ever. That's easy. I don't need to specify Pxxxx to know that none of them used the SPF rear anti-roll bar pivot design. So if the GOX reproduces exactly one of the two or three original designs then it easily wins on that point. If it uses the Holman-Moody Mk II version on a Mk I, then it loses for that. Yes, it takes some effort and judgement to figure this out. But it's not impossible, and it's not pointless.
As for Robert Ash's efforts, yes they are laudable, no they are not relevant to the question raised in the original post. He is trying to do something even more narrow: create a snapshot of a particular machine at a particular moment in the past. To quote from his web site: "to arrive at the vehicle’s "most significant point in time". "
If you're trying to decide which of three vendor's replica frames to buy for your HTP project, the kinds of things Ash fusses over sink into obscurity with nary a bubble, and quite rightly so. Oil pressure line sleeve crimping pattern? Yeah that's on the list somewhere, down around #1,000.
Seymour Snerd
Lifetime Supporter
Rune -- what can you tell us about GOX's pricing?
These are my sentinments too Jim. However, not all agree and some vehemntly disagree. Take this discussion over on Ferrarichat: David Piper restores the Talacreast P4 - FerrariChat.com
It seems some folk disagree on the whole point of choosing a particular period of a racing cars life and restoring it to that spec. Jim G seems particular dissaproving of taking the CanAm body off this car and replacing it with its original style Berlinetta?
Charlie Farley
Supporter
Keith, stand corrected, but not much in the way of thanks, still.
Thanks for the 'Deliverance'.
:uneasy:
Thanks for the 'Deliverance'.
:uneasy:
Brett James-McCall
Moderator
Jim,
There are other people at the same level of Racing Icons IMO, but I do agree the work he does is amazing. These people just aren't as prominent.
Regarding the GOX, if I remember correctly and I could be wrong; it started out as a deal between Goran and Roy Snook (who had a set of original drawings), but things didn't work out and Goran kept going with GOX.
Haven't seen Roy for years, but last time I did he was repairing 2 original cars and was still working on developing his own chassis from his drawings using original 60s techniques.
