Whitch is better, Real or Replica ?

[Hershal Byrd]

While I was pondering the, Is it real question, I got to thinking about which one is the better . I would guestimate that 80% to 90% of the replicas are better than the original. I'm thinking purely on the fact that the replicas use better engineered componants than the original. The brakes, tires and engines are much better. I'm sure you could upgrade an original but who would want too!
I think the replica space frames are equal to and even better in some cases than the monocoque. For racing, I think the lighter mono would be the better.
As far as the cosmetics of the two go, I believe they are to close to make any difference.
My comparison would be a street prepared GT and not a full blown race prepared. The one thing I believe that will seperate the two are the various suspensions that are used on the replicas. each replica manufacturer uses something different in their designs.
Please, I am in no way saying that our cars are equal in value to the wonderful originals we all love. Basically I'm pointing out that I think the kit car industry has come a long way. They now use compitant engineers that make these cars easier to build and drive.
I think in the case of the replica GT, our British brothers deserve the credit for bringing it as far as it has come. All of our GT replicas have a lineage that leads back to them.Because of their dedication and love of the car it has now become a respectable performer.
We will argue about nuances until the cows come home but that's what makes this forum fun. I hope all the replica manufactures keep up with improvements that will make our GT's even better.
OK, I'm done thinking out loud here. I hope I didn't ruffle any feathers. I luv all GT's.. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Hersh /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

Hi Hersh, from what i have seen of the original cars, I don't think they would be much fun to drive as a street car. One reason being, NO AIR CONDITIONING!I also think the susspention would need some modification. As much as I like the original cars, I also like nice paint jobs and the shine the replicas possess.

Vic
CAV 40

 

[Jim Glickenhaus]

Mine has AC.

 

[Mark Worthington]

Without insult to any of the original cars, I think a properly executed replica offers many advantages, from either a street or track perspective.

Tires are better (grippier, lower profile, more sizes, quieter and better in the wet).

Powertrain can be better and lighter (aluminum engine blocks, more advanced aluminum cylinder head designs, EFI, halfshafts with proper CV joints instead of the rubber donuts, ability to use traction control).

Brakes are better (bigger, ABS potential, lighter disks and calipers and better compounds).

Wheels are better (forged aluminum are lighter and stronger than cast magnesium).

Interior is better (air conditioning, remote mirrors, sound and thermal insulation, sound system).

Chasis is as good or better.

Interestingly, most replica builders will ignore some, many or even, in extreme cases, all improvements that a replica can offer. For example, fitting and tuning Webers can be more expensive and less driveable than a good EFI setup, but many still opt to do it. Similarly, pin drive wheels are more expensive and heavier than good quality forged wheels, but most of us choose them anyway.

If the people who designed and built the original GT40s had access to today's materials and technology and materials, you can bet that the car would've been completely different. Therein lies the charm of the GT40 - I think we can all agree that the GT40 reminds us of simpler and more romantic days, yet its style is beautiful and timeless.

 

[Jim Glickenhaus]

Mark
They have and they've built it. It's called the Ford GT and it doesn't cost that much more than most replicas. (ERA turnkey 120K?) How do you think most replica's will compare to that one? (Speed, handling, depreciation)
Hersh
Replica Run and Gun
Original Pebble Beach
Replica Club Racer
Original LeMans Classic, Goodwood Festival of Speed
Replica Premier parking at local cruise night
Original Premier parking in Monte Carlo
Replica Cover of Kit Car
Original Cover of Vintage MotorSports
Replica Speed on the Mulsanne
Original Speed on the Mulsanne 223
There are a few differences...

 

[Ron Earp]

Replica - In my garage /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Original car - In someone elses /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

My choice - replica!

 

[Mark Worthington]

Jim, I decided to build a replica because it was apparent that the Ford GT would be beyond my means and because I felt I could build a very nice replica for half the list price of a Ford GT. For me it was the right decision. The fact remains that the replica builder can do things to improve his car beyond what the originals had; EFI is a good example. If I recall correctly you are borrowing a page from this book in the restoration of your P4...aren't you going to use a well-concealed coil-on-plug setup or something?

I guess the best answer to the question, "Which is better, Real or Replica ?" is YES!

 

[Jim Glickenhaus]

Mark
You're forgetting the value of your labor. If you added that in I bet it wouldn't be 1/2 the cost. That said you'll have something you can be very proud of that you built with your hands and that really is priceless.
Originals are what they are and to enjoy them you often have to modify them slightly but IMHO these mods should never be done in a way that can't be reversed. In the scheme
of things the mods that I've made aren't much and are easily reversed.
Happy Thanksgiving!

 

[Howard Jones]

That's it Ron. I will have about $50,000 in costs into my GTD when it's done. Compair that to a real one! This is a hobbie and I don't charge myself labor costs for having fun enjoying my hobbie. I will be able to drive in on the street without the worry of ruining a part of history and enjoy the pleasure of "I built it" when someone asks. Considering my driving skills and the need to go to work on monday morning I am sure that my car is as fast as a real one, at least from my seat of the pants. When I was racing bikes I always took the most pleasure in beating the guy with the biggest checkbook.

Would I want a real one? I would sell it and use the money to build another car. This time using all I HAVE LEARNED from doing the first one.

 

[DON SILAWSKY]

Activating the ever-dimming cache of neurons that are the memories of driving my original GT40 20+ years ago, I can tell you that, while exciting, it was not pleasant: (1) TREMENDOUS noise with the "bundle-of-snakes" exhaust and no mufflers of any kind, where you can't hear yourself speak under any kind of throttle. The only experiences for me that came close to this level of noise were the cargo area of an Air Force C-130 (4-engine prop plane), and flat out in a 10-meter Fountain Executioner muscle boat with 1500 HP of blown motors and your head out in the 95 MPH windstream. (2) Then there was the ride from the solid-bushed suspension, and minimal ground clearance. Even cigarette butts were enough to cause a wince when the tires encountered one. (3) Cockpit heat is intense. While that's skillfully mitigated with A/C in Jim's J-6, that was not in my Mk I nor in the Mk IV originally. (4) Driving on the street was very unnerving for me; the combined effects of the very low height, no visibility to the rear, right-hand drive, and other drivers gawking at the 40 instead of watching the road yielded many instances of last-second almost-accidents. Now, I never drove the car very much, and more time behind the wheel would likely cure, or at least mitigate, some of these issues, but all in all I do not think that an original race-prepped Mk I would be any fun on the street for more than 30 minutes or so. I've driven my original 427 S/C Cobra on 400-mile one-way trips and frankly couldn't wait to get out of it after just an hour, and my GT40 is noiser, hotter, and stiffer. Thanks to the kindness of Scott Ales, who I met through this web site, I got a ride in a CAV GT40 a few weekends ago. It is nothing--NOTHING--like an original in terms of noise, comfort, etc. Thankfully!

 

[Jim Glickenhaus]

Fitting mufflers is no prob. and mine work well. Changing springs made ride quite alright. Ground clearance is fine @ 6 inches. Unfloating brakes, softer pads no big deal. Electronic ign., vaccumme secondaries, all minor stuff. I've driven mine about 23K miles on the street over 12 years. (Small SPA speedo/odo). What's not to like?

 

[Mike Dozier]

The problem here is that Hershel did not define "better".
Maybe he did so intentionally.

No sane person would take a replica if offered an original
(with no financial considerations).

From a performance standpoint I would sure as heck hope
in 40 years we could build a better mousetrap cloaked
in the same skin...so a replica SHOULD be capable of
outperforming an original if one chose to make the effort.

We hashed/rehashed the "value" aspect over many times,
and for 99% of us, there is "better value" in a replica.
(Cause we'll NEVER be able to afford an original!).

What other "better" measurements Hersh had in mind
I do not know.

MikeDD

 

[Ron Earp]

I'm with you Howard, I should be in about $60k done with motor, paint, etc all complete. I can't afford a real one, but if I could it'd be sold so I could enjoy a plane, more cars, etc. We're not not lucky enough to have the income to have am original car but I'm not much for history, shows, historic races, and the like. Car is a car - meant to be enjoyed no matter what the origin. If it looks like a car, runs like a car, smells like a car, drives like a car, then it must be a car! Different strokes for different folks. Now, nobody tell Evan over on Club Cobra about this thread......but on second thought this won't get nasty since we only have one or two orignal owners and they are just like the rest of us, enthusaists for GT40s.

Motor on,
Ron

 

[wpeter]

For the street I would take a replica any day. On the track the original cars have it over the replicas. It is the same as picking a Mustang street car or a full blown Trans Am car. They are both purpose built cars and neither one is truly at home on the other's territory. My MK4 is a race car and the highway is no place to drive it. It is just plain uncivilized.Which is better? Define better.
By the way. For those who think the GT40 is out of date. Riley and Scott used the same suspension goemetry on their chassis up until about '96 or '97.
Bill

 

Well, all I have to say is its like the remake of an old song, the remake is ok but I always preferred the original.

I base this opinion on a trip round the Snetterton race track three years ago in an original 40, driven by a very competent driver. The speed acceleration and handling was incredible, I was amazed how easily we passed Lambos and F50s like they were going backwards, and as we entered the corners thinking that we were far to fast to go around them safely only to find that it took it without pain. The only pain I had on that trip was in my neck muscles from the G forces.

Chris.

 

[James]

Here is another angle-

Two hides of leather from the same animal. One identical pattern, a leather jacket. Two jackets are made from the hides. Then two different labels are sewn. One "Armani" and the other "Discount Jackets". The difference in physical appearance - NONE. The difference to the consumer - "Oh, the Armani please, it so much more expensive, it's better made and has superior leather". It's the branding game!

So a replica? Slightly different story. The big question, is the orginal better because it has a Ford badge?

Not from where I'm sitting! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Regards,

J.P

 

To drive an original daily on the street would be difficult. $300K around all the other drivers on the road, pretty scary. Tough enough with a 30-60K or so replica.My replicas are built to drive daily with parts avaiable from a local vendor.Sure if offered I would take an original, but like many, I would sell and build another, or two!!

 

This is an odd question.

It's is all down to whether you want a piece of real history, or a fast car with similar looks. I'd love a car that won Le Mans in 1966 and beat Ferrari's finest. Unfortunately, I'd have to sell the house, my cars and my grandmother to afford it.

40 years on, technology must have moved on (look at what was around 40 years BEFORE the GT40, in 1923 ... makes you think), but so has Ferrari's, and everyone else's. Anyone looking for EFI, 6 pot calipers, hud, and any of the other upgrades offered by CAV, RF, ERA etc should compare their offerings with today's manufacturers, like the Panoz, Viper or similar, not a genuine 35 year old piece of history.

It comes down to affordability and what floats your boat - for everyone on GT40s.com it's the general shape of the GT40 that links us all, not the technology, and that's what makes it interesting. If we all turned up to meetings with the same spec 302, all with quad IDAs, the same wheels, all in Gulf colours, life would be pretty dull (but not quite as dull as going to an MGB owners club meeting /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif).

My two cents/pence

Rob
"life begins at 40"

 

[Hershal Byrd]

Rob,
I like the way you think. If I was offered a real GT40 I would be in seventh heaven. Owning such a piece of history is a high responsibility. I would luv to have done what Jim did with J6. Taking it to Pebble Beach and other events like that. I would be more into the historic racing though.
Jim is a rare bird. He put A/C on his original and he drives it on the street. My kinda guy!
This post was made all in fun and I thank you all for the good responses without any flaming. I guess there is no "Better" per say. It's what each individual seeks to have for his own happiness and we all are certainly doing that by what we choose to put on our GT's. When I go to an event where other GT's are I like to see all the different ways the others have accomplished the samething. Like how someone else installed a fire system or how they mounted the overlow tank. The main thing is it's fun.

Hersh /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Jim Glickenhaus]

JP
It's a bit more complex than that.
The dent in the tub from the time Bruce McLaren threw down his helmet and set off after the tail that had blown off on the Mulsanne. The piece of Carrol Shelby's belt that was used to reattach that tail. The wear mark in the seat that Mark Donohue made. The salvaged auto T44 from the car Ken Miles died in amoungst your spares. The tear in Dan Gurney's eye as he reached out and touched your car 36 years later...