Vendor Support Question

[RichardH]

Brill - the more peeps that make stuff - the better - the more choice we have.

but...

duz this contravene the rules? I hope not but as the rules were only altered a few days ago...

• Do you sell GT40 stuff? Are you promoting GT40 products? Then please support the forum as a Vendor and read the following thread. Posts made to sell, no matter how subtle, will be deleted and might lead to you being banned from the forum. The forum is not here for your convenience.

Or are the mods taking a laid back approach at the mo?

 

[Ron Earp]

Re: GT40 Light Covers

Fellows,

The rules were not altered only a few days ago. This thread has been up for a month:

Vendors

I recently did make a "Rules" post in the newbie forum to help the newbies out. That post mentions Vendors as Richard points out.

As far as not being able to get in touch with me......as you know I am on the forum daily. You can definitely email me. Some emails will get caught in my spam filter, especially from AOL and Yahoo addresses. If email doesn't work you can PM me, that works 100% of the time. You can create a post "Hey Ron Earp". Additionally you can click "Contact Us" at the bottom of the page, that goes straight to me.

As far as phoning that is cool too, but I generally won't take calls after 7pm EST and definitely don't take them with no caller ID.

 

[Mark Worthington]

Re: GT40 Light Covers

Hi Ron,

Maybe I didn't read the new rules for bendors thoroughly enough, but I see a pretty significant disparity in the requested level of financial support from a "Sponsoring Vendor" versus a "Supporting Vendor."

Take Fran Hall and Bill Hough here in this thread as an example. Fran pays $800/year and in return he's all over this forum like white on rice, and there's no question that this forum is largely responsible for the majority of Fran's rapidly expanding business, which at ~ $50k/ea has to be pretty significant.

Bill on the other hand, who has been a forum member at least as long as Fran, who is the sole proprietor of a small FRP fabrication business that he runs out of his garage, who had a business established long before GT40s.com came along, and who occasionally pops in to bring some tech or offer advice, is being told (not asked) that he can't offer products to people on GT40s.com unless he pays $200/year for the privelege of doing so. I expect Bill would have to sell quite a few sets of lexan windows to pay for one year's worth of "support" on this forum, and that he'll arrive at the conclusion that it doesn't make financial sense for him to pay the fee. Further, he might be bitter enough about it to stop posting entirely, depriving the forum of something that has been steadily declining for quite a while - the signal to noise ratio. The result would be that Bill will continue with his small business, forum users might not know of other options to get parts for their cars, and there will be less tech and experience on the forum.

I understand the need to keep out spammers and to be fair to your advertisers, but I think you are asking too much from very small businesses who provide useful parts and services to GT40 builders and drivers.

 

[Mark Worthington]

This is ridiculous

Just so there's a little bit of context for this thread, it was split right after I made my post above from this thread:

http://www.gt40s.com/forum/gt40-parts-sale/23124-gt40-light-covers.html#post206007

I also note that in that thread Bill Hough's statement that he will be making GT40 side windows was summarily removed, as he is not a "supporting vendor." I'd like to know who made the split (Ron is offline) and I'd like them to know they're being a little over zealous.

 

[Ron Earp]

Mark, I made the split. I really didn't like trampling on Mark's light cover thread. Thanks for the back link to the thread, I was not able to get it up in time since I was writing the reply below. Sorry, it looks like I collected Bill's reply when moving these over, my mistake. I will try and move it back to where it was, it was not moved due to parts selling or anything.

With respect to your comments on Vendor Support you have a valid point. It might be that some vendors would not stand to gain anything with a vendor status on GT40s.com. You know Bill personally so would probably understand his situation better than I. Maybe $200 is too high. What should the amount be? <o></o>
<o> </o>
My goal is not to create financial hardship on anyone that uses the forum. My goal is to bring a level of uniformity to use of the forum and to create an environment that is fair to users and vendors alike. For many years GT40s.com has had many vendors selling on the forum that in some cases wouldn’t even support the forum at the $25 level, despite the fact they’ve certainly generated revenue and made contacts here. Folks offering parts, services, cars, etc. – you know that as well as I do.<o></o>
<o> </o>
Fortunately the forum has many individuals that find the site useful enough they don’t mind giving $25, or more if they like, to keep the forum running. You’re a non-vendor on the site of many years membership and I know you understand as you signed up for a Support Level this morning. But while you and others understand that concept, some vendors do not. <o></o>
<o> </o>
Personally I feel that GT40s.com should be 100% free to use, and it is, as long as you are not selling things. I appreciate the contributions of non-vendor individuals to help keeping the forum running, greatly appreciate that. But these contributions are not required by users because the forum is free. I strongly believe in the free to use concept, so strongly in fact that I turned down an offer for the forum (two days ago in fact) because the “property” as they termed it would probably not maintain the free nature after acquisition (my thoughts, they claim otherwise). This is a site by enthusiasts for enthusiasts. <o></o>
<o> </o>
The forum will take funds to maintain, expand, grow, update, and so forth. I think the money, most of it, should come from folks that gain from the existence of the forum. These are manufacturers of parts, cars, services, and so on. While no policy will ever be perfect for all “vendors” of the forum, I’ve had many that have comments that the policy on GT40s.com is fair and they are happy to help out. I am always open to suggestions, but besides a few vendors I never had any member comments over the vendor policy besides yours, despite the fact that thread has been up since 9/9/07.<o></o>
<o> </o>
Best,<o></o>
Ron<o></o>

 

[Mark Worthington]

Ron,

I'd suggest the threshold level of support for anyone wanting to advertise something for sale on the forum should be a regular ole bronze membership. If someone can't pony up $20 then they have a problem. I'd also expect that there's at least three levels of vendor advertising on the forum - one with a vendor like RCR or SPF having their own subforum and exclusive posting priveleges on Manufacturers' Announcements, the next level being to start a new thread in any of the marketplace forums, and the third level being, like Bill did, to reply to a thread such as Bill did. I would encourage Bill to get some form of a membership here because he makes very nice stuff and because I'd like to see him continue to contribute.

Ron, why didn't your post display your status as online?

 

[Chris Martino]

I think if you can make some money from this forum there should be some level of advertising expense put towards promoting your goodies.

I did float my product to gauge interest, reaction and suggestions. I'm guilty of not being a vendor supporter YET but I have not plugged my product since in respect of Ron's request.

The banner ad is out of my budget, sorry Ron.


Chris

 

[Ron Earp]

Right now there are essentially three levels of Vendor Support, although the page only shows two.<o></o>
<o> </o>
<!--[if !supportLists]-->1.<!--[endif]--> Supporting Vendor which allows posting in the manufacturer's announcement section and advertising signatures.
<o></o>
<!--[if !supportLists]--><!--[endif]-->2. Sponsoring Vendors which allows all of the above as well as a banner ad in rotation.
<o></o>
<!--[if !supportLists]--><!--[endif]-->3. And to the Sponsoring Vendors they can open a forum of their own for an additional fee. A few have this option, RCR, RF, SPF and MDA did at one time.<o></o>
<o> </o>
I’m not sure I’d agree that a Supporting Vendor fee should be the same as the Bronze Support level. Then why shouldn’t anyone that wants to support the forum sign up as a Vendor instead of a regular supporter? We’d have an over abundance of Vendors I think. Vendors certainly stand to gain much more from the forum than members, at least with respect to monetary gain.<o></o>
<o> </o>
Might be the forum needs a few more “sub forums” with respect to sales. For example, I have always felt that an individual should be able to sell items to other enthusiasts for no fee. As an example this would the guy cleaning out his garage and has a few parts to sell. Right now this is available in the “Parts For Sale” area and it takes no support level to post here, and I want to keep it that way.<o></o>
<o> </o>
But, since this forum is available to all registered users then vendors can post there too. A fellow who makes 50 A Arm kits and wants to sell those can post in the same forum. I see the later individual as a Vendor and feel they should be treated differently. <o></o>
<o> </o>
I realize my view might be in the minority, especially among some vendors. But I still see two points as critical – the forum should be free for all to use, and those that stand to profit from the forum should bear the largest burden of the costs for the forum.<o></o>
<o> </o>
As far as being on line I generally don’t show up. I used to, but did not want to appear unresponsive to folks trying to IM or PM me while performing admin maintenance stuff. So, I “turned myself off”.

Chris, I completely understand about the banner ads. One of the main reasons to have the lower level of vendor support. I realize there is no way this system can be perfect, but we'll try and adjust it to fit the vendors as best we can.<o></o>
<o> </o>
Ron<o></o>

 

[Bill Musarra]

Let me see if I have this correct. I have had contact with an individual who wants to make his products(non automotive) available to the members at large. If I am his contact and he is truely a small business person(an artist that doesn't own a computer), can I post his stuff sort of like done with the crystals with out paying a fee? Or should I take out a vendor category if I make a commission for fronting for him? It would be nominal for my help given.
I understand most of the language that has come forth, just want a little verification.

Bill

 

Ron, If you could please send or PM me your mailing address, I would be able to send a payment in the form of a check. I don't have pay pal.
To me, it looks like the discussion in this thread has been productive. I hope it's part of the process of "fine tuning" the forum to make it better.

 

[Keith]

I know it's not a vendor issue, but I've just had an email saying that if I don't renew my subscription to the site "access will be denied"..

The language is a bit strong for me personally.....

 

[JimmyMac]

Access to what ?

 

[Keith]

It said that if I had subscribed via a recurring mandate (or words to that effect) I don't need to take action, otherwise pay, or be denied access. Presumably access to the site but that can't be right surely? Unfortunately I deleted it...but I thought the language a bit strong although I know it is machine generated and has been untouched by human hands....

PS, we'll find out in 2 days! If you don't hear from me again, tell everyone I was very brave......boomsmile

 

[Ron Earp]

Bill M – Hard call on that one and I think that’ll have to be something you guys decide. Clearly with any policy there are gray areas. I didn’t give much thought to vendors of art/memorabilia when I was trying to draw some guidelines. My main concern was manufacturer’s of cars, transaxles, engines, suspension, bodies, and other sort of big ticket items that folks sell.<o></o>
<o> </o>
FRPGUY – I’ll send you a PM.<o></o>
<o> </o>
Keith – Sorry about the wording there. I’ve never tried to go in and edit all the phrases that the system uses (there are literally thousands of them). Some sites really go whole hog and change all the lingo the system uses to match their motif. Ours is “all stock” as they say and I apologize for the harsh tone there. You aren’t going to get kicked or denied access. We’ll still lie though and tell them you were brave. <o></o>

 

[RichardH]

I also believe that members who may make the occasional part should be allowed to mention that, without charge, if it is relevant to a reply in a thread. If for example, a thread is about dry sumps and someone makes a valid contribution to the thread, but manufactures a scavenge pump, then I think it only correct that they should be able to mention that. That fulfills two purposes - one it gives members another contact to use and, two it gives credance to the points made as being from someone who has, maybe, more of an understanding of the problem.

I recognise that just blatant advertising, or spamming, should be dealt with severely, but I cannot see the harm if someone mentions, in passing, that they have "expert" knowledge on a subject, and why. By example, I am sure that comments made by Fran are given greater respect and credence because of his position in the industry; irrespective of the payment his company makes.

sorry - I am rambling - but I think yu will understand my point.

 

[Ron Earp]

I also believe that members who may make the occasional part should be allowed to mention that, without charge, if it is relevant to a reply in a thread. If for example, a thread is about dry sumps and someone makes a valid contribution to the thread, but manufactures a scavenge pump, then I think it only correct that they should be able to mention that. That fulfills two purposes - one it gives members another contact to use and, two it gives credance to the points made as being from someone who has, maybe, more of an understanding of the problem.
.

I completely agree. And the policy was created with that in mind. The experts we have on this forum that provide helpful information are invaluable. I would not want to see them "run off" due to a misunderstanding of the policy.

The policy was created to take care of abuse. For example, we frequently have folks asking about what GT40 is the best. If we were to have a member who sells GT40s always respond to these questions with "Have a look at XYZ GT40, it is the best" then I consider that shameless plugging and I'd ask that person to become a Vendor. Ditto someone who continued to post "Hey, I'm selling these pieces" over and over.

I think most people get the gist of the policy. Like I mentioned, there is no way to make a one size fits all policy for a forum as large as this one is, with a large international population, and with the many varied backgrounds of the members. And you know, that is fine because these qualities make the forum what it is, a great place!

Ron

 

[Keith]

<?xml:namespace prefix = o /><o></o>
Keith – Sorry about the wording there. I’ve never tried to go in and edit all the phrases that the system uses (there are literally thousands of them). Some sites really go whole hog and change all the lingo the system uses to match their motif. Ours is “all stock” as they say and I apologize for the harsh tone there. You aren’t going to get kicked or denied access. We’ll still lie though and tell them you were brave. <o></o>

Cool Ron, thanks....I couldn't do without my daily dose of manycoques...rockonsmile

Ooops...

 

[John Lowe]

Ron

As ever you tread a considered and responsive path, however it is a simple truth that you cannot please all of the people all of the time (anyone know who said that first?).

Kieth, surely that was manycocks I always wondered why they were stiffer, now I think I begin to understand.

John

 

[Keith]

Exactly that John many-cocks make for stiffer members than a bunch of tubes.

 

[Dave]

I think that main stream manufactures like DRB, RCR and the like should pay big bucks to advertise their products, I don't find Fran to be over zealous in his hawking on the forum and really like others look to see what he has to say.
On another note I think that people should be able to advertise in there signiture eg If you have 4 Halibrand rims left over from a build you should be able put that in your signiture or if you want an item like a set of Quad Webers you should also be able to have that in your signiture, WTD Quad Webers??. I see most peoples signiture and think that a lot items sitting in peoples sheds could change hands. You're reading a post about Garages
and suddenly you see someone has got a set of wheels you might be looking for? Any ways not trying to make waves just an idea.