What's that old saying again? "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results"?
Middle East radicals are the poster boys where that's concerned.
Israel and Gaza?
- Thread starter Pete
- Start date
What's that old saying again? "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results"?
Middle East radicals are the poster boys where that's concerned.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jammin man View Post
The well-worn definition of insanity: trying the same tactic over and over and expecting a different result.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry L. View Post
What's that old saying again? "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results"?
I am going mad.
Bob :drunk:
Originally Posted by jammin man View Post
The well-worn definition of insanity: trying the same tactic over and over and expecting a different result.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry L. View Post
What's that old saying again? "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results"?
I am going mad.
Bob :drunk:
:lol:
Jim,
Don't disagree at all, but does not the same now apply to the Israelis who have now murderd Palestiniane children, and round and round we go.
Al,
Not sure the children where attacking the Israelis.
“The majority of these [Palestinian] children were killed and injured while going about normal daily activities, such as going to school, playing, shopping, or simply being in their homes. Sixty-four percent of children killed during the first six months of 2003 died as a result of Israeli air and ground attacks, or from indiscriminate fire from Israeli soldiers.”
Mohammed Bakr was one of four boys, all cousins aged 9 to 12, who were killed by Israeli missiles as they played on a Gaza City beach on Wednesday.
Double :lol:
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Jim Rosenthal
Supporter
I find it interesting (and appalling) that both sides refer to the killing of civilians as "collateral damage". This phrase seems to have been originated by our military, but now it seems every spokesman for every military uses it. The only people who don't refer to "collateral damage" are terrorists who send suicide bombers out into markets and places of that kind.
"Collateral damage" means that people who have nothing to do with the combat operations are killed and maimed. I suppose that to terrorists, killing and maiming civilians is the entire point, so the concept of collateral damage doesn't exist.
This morning Israel began a ground attack (an invasion, in other words) of Gaza. This seems familiar. I suppose they will end up occupying Gaza, which they have done several times in the past, and then withdrawing at some point. At which point, the entire cycle will begin again.
It seems to me that at least two things are required for this all to come to an end: the first is that all the elements on the Palestinian side need to be under control, so that one small group can't commit an act that begins the entire conflict all over again. This is what happened here- the murder of the three boys and then the revenge murder of the fourth boy is what lit the fuse on all this. It would be reasonable to suspect that the murder of the three boys was an independent act by Palestinian criminals operating on their own, but in the incredibly tense and charged climate of the Middle East that act became even more provocative than it would have been elsewhere.
The second thing that needs to happen is that on the Israeli side, responses need to be different. That is easy for me to say, and very difficult to do in practice, but it will be a better statesman than Netanyahu that brings this war of decades to a conclusion.
I said two things, but a third occurs: other countries whose political aims are furthered by a proxy war involving the Palestinians and Israelis will also have to let go of those aims and stop stirring the pot. Iran seems to me to be the biggest actor in that sphere, but what do I know? For all I know, it's Finland. Maybe they are just trying to Finnish everyone off so they can occupy the Middle East.
"Collateral damage" means that people who have nothing to do with the combat operations are killed and maimed. I suppose that to terrorists, killing and maiming civilians is the entire point, so the concept of collateral damage doesn't exist.
This morning Israel began a ground attack (an invasion, in other words) of Gaza. This seems familiar. I suppose they will end up occupying Gaza, which they have done several times in the past, and then withdrawing at some point. At which point, the entire cycle will begin again.
It seems to me that at least two things are required for this all to come to an end: the first is that all the elements on the Palestinian side need to be under control, so that one small group can't commit an act that begins the entire conflict all over again. This is what happened here- the murder of the three boys and then the revenge murder of the fourth boy is what lit the fuse on all this. It would be reasonable to suspect that the murder of the three boys was an independent act by Palestinian criminals operating on their own, but in the incredibly tense and charged climate of the Middle East that act became even more provocative than it would have been elsewhere.
The second thing that needs to happen is that on the Israeli side, responses need to be different. That is easy for me to say, and very difficult to do in practice, but it will be a better statesman than Netanyahu that brings this war of decades to a conclusion.
I said two things, but a third occurs: other countries whose political aims are furthered by a proxy war involving the Palestinians and Israelis will also have to let go of those aims and stop stirring the pot. Iran seems to me to be the biggest actor in that sphere, but what do I know? For all I know, it's Finland. Maybe they are just trying to Finnish everyone off so they can occupy the Middle East.
Nick, Who initiated the first attack of this present conflict?
Terry Oxandale
Skinny Man
If Israel truly believes what it says in that it is simply settling territory it won in the last conflict, then they should just "do it". Occupy (in the traditional spoils-of-war territory grab) and not retreat back to Israel. Retreating back after each occupation simply bolsters the claims of the Palestinians that they still own Gaza.
Who initiated the first attack...is it really that simply that history begins anew with each missile launch? I would be curious as to your response if the government eminent-domained your home, didn't compensate you for it, and then called you a terrorist when you beat the hell out of the county surveyor when he brought the bulldozers to your property.
Who initiated the first attack...is it really that simply that history begins anew with each missile launch? I would be curious as to your response if the government eminent-domained your home, didn't compensate you for it, and then called you a terrorist when you beat the hell out of the county surveyor when he brought the bulldozers to your property.
No, history continues with each new attack. Pawns like the Palestinians will do the bidding of Iran and others. The Palestinians will reap the consequences. In the mean time Israel will be the bad guy for defending themselves. It's not going to stop, ever. But we who aren't having rockets lobbed at us daily have something to talk about.
"Our position, however, is that the Palestinians have a real grievance: their homeland for over a thousand years was taken, without their consent and mostly by force, during the creation of the state of Israel."
Who was there prior to the 1000 years? The Italians might have a stake in this.
That would be the HRI, Hand Wringers International.
Pat
Supporter
With your logic, why not give it back to the Ottomans? It was taken from them in 1918. But then they took it from the Persians in 1520.
Nick you seem very selective in your narrative. BEFORE the three Israeli students were abducted in June, the following occurred this year alone:
January 2014
In January, Palestinian Militants launched 22 rockets and four mortar shell at Israel in 19 separate attacks. Two of the rockets were launched from Sinai.
February 2014
In February, Palestinian Militants launched nine rockets at Israel in seven separate attacks.
March 2014
In March, Palestinians launched 65 rockets and mortar shell, in 23 attacks.
April 2014
In April, There were 19 rockets and 5 mortar shell in 14 attacks towards Israel. These attacks caused property damage, but no deaths or injuries.
May 2014
Through May, 4 rockets and 3 mortar shells were launched from Gaza in 5 attacks towards Israel.
And you call the Israeli strikes "indiscriminate"?? My amazement is how they did not launch the ground offensive well before this. As an interesting side note, the Israeli electrical engineers and power workers in Sderot, Israel, have continued to work during Hamas missile bombings, to supply electricity to... yep, Gaza. Apparently the Palestinians are not particularly appreciative.
Israelis simply want to stop the rocket attacks once and for all and apparently you suggest they have no right to do so. They gave up Gaza in 2005 and look at what the Palestinians have done with it since . Hamas, (which denies Israel’s right to exist) is tolerated by Israel only as far as they are the only current alternative in Gaza that might be occupied by even more dangerous enemies such as the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant, an al-Qaeda breakaway group now dominant in large parts of Iraq and Syria.
Contrary to what has been posted, the Israelis were also called Palestinians before 1948. If you want to play the "who was there first game" the Kingdom of Judah was a state established in the Southern Levant during the Iron Age. There is no "stolen land". Gaza was awarded to the Arab refugees(not welcome in any fellow Arab nation) as a unilateral gesture of postwar peace. The place is a glorified displaced persons camp for the Arab states. But then Arab militants and their sympathizers also say that about the state of Israel.
In return, for Israel departing Gaza in 2005 and forcibly removing Israeli citizens on the land, the Arabs responded with rocket attacks from the once prosperous land they have allowed to fall into ruin. Since Egypt has also built a wall on their border to Gaza, Israel is not isolating the Palestinians by itself.
The Palestinian Authority is universally recognized as the legitimate government party ruling Gaza. Hamas is (not quite universally) recognized as a terrorist usurper in southern Gaza.
Therefore support for the terrorists in Gaza is either an Arab nationalist or an naïve noob who considers trendy and popular support of the underdog more important than historical fact.
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Pete McCluskey.
Lifetime Supporter
Nick it is not the Israelis who murder children as you put it but the Palestinians who launch their rockets from near hospitals and schools hoping that will deter Israel from responding.
The Palestinians hide behind women and children.
Israel only responds to rocket attacks and drops leaflets into the area warning of an impending attack.
If the Palestinians didn't lob rockets into Israel no children would be murdered. Israel is not the aggressor.
The Palestinians hide behind women and children.
Israel only responds to rocket attacks and drops leaflets into the area warning of an impending attack.
If the Palestinians didn't lob rockets into Israel no children would be murdered. Israel is not the aggressor.
Dear Nick,
Late last night, tanks rolled into parts of Gaza as Israel stepped up Operation ‘Protective Edge’. Since the current military offensive began, at least 237 Palestinians have been killed, 52 of them children*.
A further 1,764 Palestinians have been injured, including 521 children. Thousands of homes have been destroyed, displacing some 33,500 people. Over half the population of Gaza is without water, compounding the misery of civilians already suffering due to the ongoing blockade.
With the ground invasion now under way, we expect the numbers of civilian casualties and the destruction of Gaza’s already crippled infrastructure to increase. It is vital we act now.
Call on the UK Government to halt arms sales to Israel
The Israeli army has been deliberately targeting civilian homes it says belong to families of ‘Hamas operatives’. In several cases, however, no evidence has emerged that ‘Hamas operatives’ were in the houses at the time, or that the homes were being used for military purposes.
Meanwhile, two Israelis have been killed and scores injured amid indiscriminate rocket fire by Palestinian armed groups.
Indiscriminate and disproportionate attacks against civilians are against international law. Yet there’s a risk arms from the UK are facilitating such war crimes.
Last year the UK sold £6.3 million-worth of arms to Israel. We know arms from the UK have been used to commit human rights violations in Gaza in the past. As long as there is a substantial risk they will be used to commit the violations we’re seeing now, all sales to Israel must stop. The same is true for those supplying Hamas and other Palestinian armed groups.
Call on the UK to stop all arms sales to Israel - don’t facilitate war crimes
Thank you – and please watch out for further action as the situation develops,
P.S. The UK is not the worst when it comes to sales of arms to Israel; the US supplied $214 million-worth of weaponry in 2013.
Late last night, tanks rolled into parts of Gaza as Israel stepped up Operation ‘Protective Edge’. Since the current military offensive began, at least 237 Palestinians have been killed, 52 of them children*.
A further 1,764 Palestinians have been injured, including 521 children. Thousands of homes have been destroyed, displacing some 33,500 people. Over half the population of Gaza is without water, compounding the misery of civilians already suffering due to the ongoing blockade.
With the ground invasion now under way, we expect the numbers of civilian casualties and the destruction of Gaza’s already crippled infrastructure to increase. It is vital we act now.
Call on the UK Government to halt arms sales to Israel
The Israeli army has been deliberately targeting civilian homes it says belong to families of ‘Hamas operatives’. In several cases, however, no evidence has emerged that ‘Hamas operatives’ were in the houses at the time, or that the homes were being used for military purposes.
Meanwhile, two Israelis have been killed and scores injured amid indiscriminate rocket fire by Palestinian armed groups.
Indiscriminate and disproportionate attacks against civilians are against international law. Yet there’s a risk arms from the UK are facilitating such war crimes.
Last year the UK sold £6.3 million-worth of arms to Israel. We know arms from the UK have been used to commit human rights violations in Gaza in the past. As long as there is a substantial risk they will be used to commit the violations we’re seeing now, all sales to Israel must stop. The same is true for those supplying Hamas and other Palestinian armed groups.
Call on the UK to stop all arms sales to Israel - don’t facilitate war crimes
Thank you – and please watch out for further action as the situation develops,
P.S. The UK is not the worst when it comes to sales of arms to Israel; the US supplied $214 million-worth of weaponry in 2013.
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deleted because
"You can’t change other people. You can only change yourself. Everyone’s got problems. You learn from them, you live with them, you move on. It’s a choice you make if you want to have a happy life. Nobody’s perfect. People are different and that’s what makes them so interesting.”
"You can’t change other people. You can only change yourself. Everyone’s got problems. You learn from them, you live with them, you move on. It’s a choice you make if you want to have a happy life. Nobody’s perfect. People are different and that’s what makes them so interesting.”
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An ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"[1]), short for argumentum ad hominem, is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument.
