Bicycle riders.

Larry L.

Lifetime Supporter
In short - selfishness and jealousy.

Doug

Not hardly.

People are fed up with cyclists' "selfishness", inconsideration, and continual scofflaw stunts...not to mention their 'My-slow-moving-self-has-the-RIGHT-to-plug-up-the-road-if-I-want-and-you're-just-going-to-have-to-tolerate-it' attitude and the fact they're not paying any of the taxes/fees motorists have to pay in the process.

Roads were designed specifically for motor vehicles, not bikes. Motor vehicles/cars are the reason paved roads were built in the 1st place. Whereas, push come to shove, cyclists can ride their bikes a-n-y-w-h-e-r-e and don't really need roads to get from point "A" to point "B", cars and commercial vehicles DO.

That's just real world reality.

'Dunn' here. 'Not gunna endlessly debate the issue. Just like "climate change", nobody's view is gunna change one whit by going back & forth on it anyway. (I'm tryin' to cut down on my exposure to aggravation...:sneaky:)
 

Keith

Moderator
This might explain it (BTW from a BBC article)

"It’s not simply because they are annoying, argues Tom Stafford, it’s because they trigger a deep-seated rage within us by breaking the moral order of the road."

BBC - Future - The psychology of why cyclists enrage car drivers

My take away is that motorists believe cyclists are getting away with something the motorist cannot participate in without subjecting themselves to the risk of receiving citation$.

In short - selfishness and jealousy.

Doug

An interesting read.. I am sure there's a lot of truth in it. I have to say, after 55 years of car driving that I've been more upset with the standard of car driving than bicycle riding. When I see bikes, I automatically go into defensive mode and make sure I stay well away from them. I think that reaction is mainly because I was a bike rider too, but gave it up 10 years ago because I was too shit scared to ride it anymore...
 
Thank goodness! :thumbsup:

I used to be a Morris dancer you know....:embarassed:

Like it :)

The fact that you have pranced around waving your hanky in the air and enjoying people being bashed over the head with an inflated pigs bladder has been noted, and no doubt will be used in evidence against you at some point
 

Doug S.

The protoplasm may be 72, but the spirit is 32!
Lifetime Supporter
People are fed up with cyclists' "selfishness", inconsideration, and continual scofflaw stunts...not to mention their 'My-slow-moving-self-has-the-RIGHT-to-plug-up-the-road-if-I-want-and-you're-just-going-to-have-to-tolerate-it' attitude and the fact they're not paying any of the taxes/fees motorists have to pay in the process.

You know, Larry, for once I think you may have a point. Other than the sales tax I paid on my bikes, I can't think of one cent that I've paid to ride on the roads (other than routine maintenance costs and replacement parts)...no gasoline taxes, no "gas guzzler" taxes, no tolls...nothing.

I, for one, would not mind paying a reasonable yearly fee. That fee should be based on how much of the road I take up and how much deterioration to that road the vehicle on which I travel will cause.

If you buy into that "responsible" attitude, you can surely see that the amount I pay for using that road will be miniscule compared to that paid by a motorcycle or a car or a truck...I keep seeing these signs on the backs of semi-trailers that tell how much money they pay in road use taxes in a year. It is certainly more than I pay for my cars.

As for that "I have the right...." attitude...that's right, we do have the right. You may feel "slighted" because we don't have to pay anything for upkeep on the roads to enjoy using them...but, really, how much do you really think we would pay if we were taxed fairly? It would not prohibit nor even inhibit any of the bicyclists I know from using the roads...but if it would improve your attitude and the same attitude displayed by those selfish "snobs" who are so impressed with vehicle they drive and the amount they paid to buy the car and to operate the car, it would be worth every penny.

I, for one, think bicycles are art in motion...and the gear that many of them use is waaaaay cool!

I do prefer riding the trails, though, more than road-riding and the main reason for that is I don't have to worry so much about getting hurt by the actions of others...I do a good enough job on my own, though!

Cheers!

Doug
 

Larry L.

Lifetime Supporter
Do you have the right in America to ride four abreast and obstruct traffic?

'Can't address that nation-wide, but, if memory serves, here in Washington State bikes are permitted to ride two abreast. Ditto motorcycles.
 

Doug S.

The protoplasm may be 72, but the spirit is 32!
Lifetime Supporter
Do you have the right in America to ride four abreast and obstruct traffic?

You know, Pete, I guess it never dawned on me to check that out, it's not something I do unless it's a "sponsored ride" like our two-day, 150 mile "MS 150" rides to benefit Multiple Schlerosis. Our local MS 150 goes all the way from Houston, TX to Austin, TX (a total of 168 miles, actually). There are well over a thousand individual riders, all on the road at the same time. That's the only situation in which I can imagine riding 4 abreast.

However, as a bicyclist I can imagine that, if there is an adversarial relationship between cyclists and motorists, riding 4 abreast might serve as a safety issue, making the group more visible. It is my firm belief that nobody wants to hurt another human over issues such as these, they just want some common (IS it???) courtesy. As I've said all along, I ride the white line that marks the edge of the road, and if there is even a 12" patch of pavement on the outside of that line it's where I ride. I have no interest in aggravating an angry motorist...a bicycle never even gets close to winning any confrontation with an automobile and any bicyclist who intentionally entices a REASONABLE motorist to take such action is a fool of the highest degree. I say "reasonable" because there ARE those on the road whom I believe have anger issues that overshadow reason (I think I'd worry if I was living in the same locale as Larry, he seems to be quite angry about this issue, even to the point that IMHO it's unreasonable and if that is his state of mind he could be a significant danger to even those riders who try to be courteous...guilt by association is a powerful force to the unreasonable)...the issue seems to be how does a bicyclist, who is usually bent over the bars with his head down and can only hear the car approaching from behind, know the state of mind of that motorist? He can't...he can only hope that if that motorist is one of the unreasonably militant drivers he does not intentionally target the biker. We are constantly aware of how vulnerable we are.

I know you would not lie, Pete, so I know you must have encountered cyclists riding 4 abreast. I just can't imagine doing it except with the endorsement of the local law enforcement agencies like when we ride our MS150 fund raisers...and even then the only time I ever see something similar to the action you described was when a fast group of riders was overtaking a group pedaling at a more leisurely rate. There is an acceptable etiquette to riding in a fast group (which by "drafting" allows the entire group to go faster), the leader pedals at the front as long as he can and when he can no longer maintain the pace of "breaking" the air he moves slightly to the left as the remaining cyclists in the line pass, moving back to the right once the last rider in line has passed him. In that scenario there are never more than two abreast. It's common knowledge that the fast groups will need to bypass slower groups and when that happens it's courtesy to get as far as possible to the right so that the group can pass "...on your left" without extending too far into the lane of traffic.

As for whether or not those bicyclists are within their rights...I'm not sure of Australia's laws, but here in TX in the good ol' USA bicycles have the right of way, just like a pedestrian crossing a street. If a car hits a pedestrian, he's always at fault...I can't imagine it being any different for the scenario you pose...so to make a guess, I'd say the cyclists were "protected" by the right of way in this case.

Still doesn't make it a wise choice, much less the right thing to do :thumbsdown:

Cheers!

Doug
 
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Ok Doug you can have a small concession of about two feet from the kerb to account for the piss poor state of the roads close in. To ride any closer would probably take your tyres out in this country, this was an observation I made while following four cyclists riding four abreast for about two miles. In this part of the country cyclist in the main are ignorant, arrogant and a royal pain in the arse.:furious:

Bob
 

Dimi Terleckyj

Lifetime Supporter
Not hardly.

People are fed up with cyclists' "selfishness", inconsideration, and continual scofflaw stunts...not to mention their 'My-slow-moving-self-has-the-RIGHT-to-plug-up-the-road-if-I-want-and-you're-just-going-to-have-to-tolerate-it' attitude and the fact they're not paying any of the taxes/fees motorists have to pay in the process.

Roads were designed specifically for motor vehicles, not bikes. Motor vehicles/cars are the reason paved roads were built in the 1st place. Whereas, push come to shove, cyclists can ride their bikes a-n-y-w-h-e-r-e and don't really need roads to get from point "A" to point "B", cars and commercial vehicles DO.

That's just real world reality.

'Dunn' here. 'Not gunna endlessly debate the issue. Just like "climate change", nobody's view is gunna change one whit by going back & forth on it anyway. (I'm tryin' to cut down on my exposure to aggravation...:sneaky:)

Larry,

At the risk of being shot down in flames, I agree wholeheartedly.

A person on a bicycle can have all the rights they think they are entitled to but it won't do them a scrap of good when they are under my back wheels, where most of them belong.
Dimi
 

Pete McCluskey.

Lifetime Supporter
Doug, in most states cyclists are allowed to ride two abreast and three abreast if someone is overtaking. They constantly flout this law, even small groups of five or six ride abreast, so they can have a chat. Or is it to piss off the dumb motorist? Because they are unlicensed un registered and not required to carry I.D. The cops don't even bother to police it.
 
Out here, the trend is to take very busy four lane boulevards and turn them into two lane car, two lane bicycle. If there were actual concern for safety they would
Establish bike routes on less traveled parallel routes, but of course the agenda is the "bicycle, bus, and train" system so popular in countries that wish to control their citizen's mobility.
 

Larry L.

Lifetime Supporter
Out here, the trend is to take very busy four lane boulevards and turn them into two lane car, two lane bicycle.

Hmmmmmm...'sounds a bit like "Critical Mass" lite, doesn't it?

It's amazing to me that more drivers haven't 'snapped' and responded to that group's 'we're-taking-over-this-street' tactics the way this one did (at about 00:34):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_HWw8ifZcY

One can only poke a bear with a sharp stick just sooooo long before it will end you.


If there were actual concern for safety they would Establish bike routes on less traveled parallel routes...

...especially in places where hilly topography is involved.
 
Hmmmmmm...'sounds a bit like "Critical Mass" lite, doesn't it?

It's amazing to me that more drivers haven't 'snapped' and responded to that group's 'we're-taking-over-this-street' tactics the way this one did (at about 00:34):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_HWw8ifZcY

One can only poke a bear with a sharp stick just sooooo long before it will end you.




...especially in places where hilly topography is involved.

Larry,

Thought you were done? Guess you enjoyed to video too much not to post it.

Here's a question for you; How is the driver in the video any different from someone here in the US getting pissed off and going into an elementary school, or theater and gunning down a bunch of our children, and do you also condone this type of behavior?

Doug
 

Doug S.

The protoplasm may be 72, but the spirit is 32!
Lifetime Supporter
Nice try, Doug...

Larry, you are the MASTER of avoiding answering unpleasant questions. Talk about consistently avoiding the issues by trying to redirect attention to someone/something else...or just plain stonewalling.

Just didn't want you to think that nobody really noticed it :idea:

Doug
 

Doug S.

The protoplasm may be 72, but the spirit is 32!
Lifetime Supporter
...and, I rest my case :idea:

Cheers to you, Larry, for being SO predictable!!

Doug
 
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