Big Block vs Small Block

George

CURRENTLY BANNED
Michael,

I dont like power-adders. I like Natural aspirated engines. Thats probbably why I always liked BB cause they make good power/good torque N/A. Also, the only Lamborghini I like is the Diablo, it would cost me 200,000 to get one. To then build a 750hp V12 N/A, considering its not a normal sort of engine, it would have to go to a boat racing team to build it, but being the nature of work they do/orginazation they run, that motor could cost up to 100,000 to build. Theres 300.000 already and the car still weighs 1600kg. After thinking about it long and hard... its kinda a waste of money to spend 200,000 upfront on a car that the intention is to pull all appart to build your own way for another 200-300,000, mayswell of started with a rolling chasis and built whatever you like and thus not destroy a rare car such as a Diablo, so I left that idea.

Ive always liked the Ford Gt40, infact, if you seen my few very first posts, I was asking about a Ford GT, because it was highly capable, 2.8 seconds slower around top-gears track than the enzo ferrari, 1 second slower than the Porsche GT Carrera. I also knew it weighed 300kg more than the Enzo and had 130bhp less aswell. Telling me its potential was extremely close. I wanted to get that car, rang up an import place here about it, Im looking at $250,000 after compliance etc (basicaly same as the Diablo)

So I posted here about the car, had in my own mind to 'tweak' that suspension to get rid of the lack of grip on front tires, and to eliminate some of that body roll it has. Also wanted to add a carbon fibre body to it to drop some of that crazy weight it contains since real supercars weigh like 1200-1300kg not 1600 (again though mayswell build ur own car ground up).

Then from a 'long term member' on this forum I received a reply "Have you considered a GT40? You can build it with the Carbon fibre body you want, it weighs under 1000kg, has a shorter wheelbase giving it better handling than the GT and for ALOT (120 000 dollars) less you can have a better performing vehicle.

Thus my search started on the GT40. I never considered the GT40 because I never knew it was even something available. I know I loved the idea of a car that was low to the ground like that, but thought the GT was all I could get that kinda worked that way. Guess I learned I can get a GT40.

So I went off that, "Better for Less $" of a long term member here.

Now I took it 1 step further and said "why not invest the SAME amount as a GT would cost?" that would seriously up its cornering performance.

Any wrong in that?

No.

Any wrong in me wanting to give a Small Block some credit and wanting to see some value in it hence I asked about it cause my Experience was always BB (no replacement for discplacement) mentality, and a car being as light as a GT40 I wanted to know "Why a SB why a BB" simply cause i wanted to see the value in perhaps changing my thoughts from "BB rules all" showing my open mindedness, and instead of some credit willing to learn and willing to not have my head screwed in the ground where "BB is it nothing beats BB, SB is shit, SB is a waste of money etc (person that cant be helped), I get abused for even ASKING the question.

So SORRY for wanting to see VALUE in a small block over a BIG BLOCK in a GT40.
 
George

I have read through some of the posts.
I maybe getting it wrong but and mist something in the meld but the engine you are talking about will never go through rego or engineering and I dont care who you know, it wont.
The rta will require an emissions test as soon as they see it.
The RTA do the test so you cant bullshit that one.
The RTA audits every car in NSW so you cant bullshit that one.
You will have to do some things after the fact.

Whatever someone is telling you ,he knows a guy who knows a guy, forget it it will cost you a lot of time and money.
One thing you should remember the RTA do not like you,they are God,it is them against you,and after that they are quite reasonable.

Jim
 

George

CURRENTLY BANNED
The Engineer said he doesnt care what Engine I use, aslong as it passes the Emission test.

I will be using EFI and a CAT obviously.
 

Mike

Lifetime Supporter
When do you plan on executing on your plan? If you can afford a $200k car why don't you pick up a nice heritage edition Ford GT. It will maintain its value if not appreciate. Sinking $200k into a GT40 is money you'll never see again. A GT is not heavy due to body panels. It has a very stout chassis and drivetrain capable of handling well in excess of 1000hp as evidenced by the numerous TT GTs running around out there. I think you are being foolishly short sighted thinking you are going to take a 40 year old design and try and compete with any modern supercar. Not happening. So when are you placing your order?
 

George

CURRENTLY BANNED
Im not building a 40 year old GT40. Im building 1 with a carbon fibre monocoque chasis, which is what supercars use like the Enzo, Zonda and koenigsegg, I even heard the new Mclaren uses the same. Infact thats superior to the GT space frame as the spaceframe is old-tech. And value doesnt matter to me because Im buying the car via selling a few cars, which to me makes the car cost nothing per-say and it becomes my own idea of a vehicle which is nice to have something built how I wanted rather than how the factory specified it. So next 12-24 months, the order will be in.

If you read my first post I made it clear I currently dont have the $, but Im building towards it. Im working in with another Importing agency whch is helping me get to that goal. Why then ask all the questions now? I like to have a vision in my mind, as it keeps the goal infront that im working towards. Then when Im ready to go ahead, I dont have to THEN spend alot of time working it out which is then costing MORE time. Work it out now n once i got the money, place the order and done, no time wasted.
 

Mike

Lifetime Supporter
So I have a genuine question. When you flush the toilet down there, which way does the water spin?
 
George,

You ARE buiding a 40 year old design...

You are useing an original shape body.....it was designed 40 yrs ago, The aerodynamics of the body are the same as they were 40 years ago

The Tornado Carbon Fibre Chassis, is a good way of making a CF chassis, for a GT40, And I wish to point out, im am NOT discrediting Andy Sheldons chassis in any way....I think it is a really good chassis .

BUT the chassis is a CF version of a 40 year old design..

Again the suspension geometry, is the same. The rear suspension is a really old design, and you would never see it, like that on a modern car

George,

Im not having a pop at you. im just trying to point out some things you have overlooked...and to be honest with you. You are misunderstanding, what people are telling you....They are trying to help you......

Tell people. what you want from a car, and how much money you have, and they will give advice on whats best for you

mick
 
When attempting this experiment I saw no twisting in either direction. Try as hard as I might I could see no evidence of twisting forces at all. On inspection I found a blockage. I am currently trying to work out if it's a small blockage or a big blockage.

Tim.
 
But seriously... and staying near topic, when it comes to getting through RTA or whatever, what would the chances be with either a BB or Windsor (or any older engine I guess) if they were using alternative fuels - LPG, natural gas or high proportion alcohol fuels for example. I realize the testing might be expensive and time consuming but that aside possible success or still a snowballs chance in a hot place?
If they burned as cleanly as they are promoted to then assuming the cars had dedicated fuel systems (difficult with option 3 I guess) then one might assume that a reasonable authority might look favorably. What am I saying?! Reasonable bureaucracy... I must be delirious again...

What if it had EFI and cats? :idea: ;) :rolleyes:


Hey Mick, I think you are underestimating these cars a bit. There are some
cars around the place that are running quite competitively against more
modern cars. But anyway that's another subject. (started me wondering whether Andy or anyone with a properly sorted GT40 has done the Top Gear test track and if so how did it compare to other cars that didn't have wings or ground effects, and... is there any footage?
Once the front end of my car is sorted they are welcome to test it, might be a tad far away though.)

Tim.
 
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Mike

Lifetime Supporter
Wouldnt that be the sink/toilet spins around the water???

Ah yes, I think you're on to something. Hopefully, Gman has taken this into account with his design. If you have to meet strict emission requirements why not the new Ford Racing Coyote engine George?
 
Uh Keith...We say "There is no replacement for displacement" now go to your corner and repeat until you have it right....sheese, sailors...

And about Chapman then, although I love some of his cars, I'm not so sure I'd want to be the driver. A few too many broke and killed their pilots for me.

And Shelby...sure seems to have his own set of faults, but he took what was available and beat the crap out of the 'geniuses' with a bunch of knuckle dragging Hot Rodders.

Now then, where are my grumpy pills......
 

George

CURRENTLY BANNED
Mesa

lol.

Mick, thanks. I know I want a car that feels like a Go-kart on the road, a car that feels like it could do 100kmh full lock in 1 circle because it just grips/handles with no (next to no) body roll. THat would be to do with spring rates etc which can be done.

I also love the look of the GT40, so buying some other car that 'is a race car' that does handle '3gs' compare to street ferraris, ford Gts etc which dont even get 1.2 gs, isn't the point. The point is getting the Car I love the look of (GT or GT40 as they look the same) and then making them the '3g' (not saying this literaly) handling capable car. That way the perfomance comes with the look I was after. Considering I want a go-kart feeling car, that eliminates the GT because of the sheer size and weight factor. I also want to have a car that was built according to my specification which owning a Replica fulfills that as its built ground up, which to me adds a sentimental value, its not just a factory produced car, it is MY car.

I believe I will be going with an alloy block with alloy heads etc IN a...





SMALL BLOCK. Yep thats right, a SMALL BLOCK, not the BB.





Id rather it be safe on the street (power coming on at 4000rpm where I dont have to rev to) than the torque coming on 2000rpm and throwing me off the road or something as such accidently + it will keep the whole go-kart aspect to it, very light car, very light engine, etc. It just makes sense. O and it seems like the sound I love actually comes from a Small Block not a big block, adding another 'wow' factor to the car being driven as it screams the way I like.

So thank you everyone. Decision made thanks to this 'unproductive' discussion which to me was actually very usefull.
 
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Doug S.

The protoplasm may be 72, but the spirit is 32!
Lifetime Supporter
I believe I will be going with an alloy block with alloy heads etc IN a...

SMALL BLOCK. Yep thats right, a SMALL BLOCK, not the BB.

Id rather it be safe on the street (power coming on at 4000rpm where I dont have to rev to) than the torque coming on 2000rpm and throwing me off the road or something as such accidently + it will keep the whole go-kart aspect to it, very light car, very light engine, etc. It just makes sense. O and it seems like the sound I love actually comes from a Small Block not a big block, adding another 'wow' factor to the car being driven as it screams the way I like.

Good choice, G-man! I kind of bowed out when all the mud-slinging started on this and your other threads, but I do congratulate you for your willingness to consider the small-block, given your love for big-block engines.

However, in all seriousness, I wonder why you haven't considered this bit of advice:

If you have to meet strict emission requirements why not the new Ford Racing Coyote engine George?

IMHO, you'd have the best of both worlds...you'd have a modern design engine (DOHC, 4 valves per cylinder), you'd have an ECU (IIRC the Coyote crate motor comes from Ford with a stand-alone ECU) to go with the cats, it would still be a small-block, and if you really wanted "the look" there are companies around who are beginning to develop aftermarket parts such as IR stack injection. This engine really seems to be the answer to many of the prayers of those of us who bleed Ford blue. It is truly a modern race engine available in the Ford Mustang GT and Ford F150 pickup here in the U.S. and there is a LOT of buzz about it in all the replicar forums online.

Sure, you can go with a SBF or one of the "mid-block" Windsor offerings (although, I prefer the "Clevor" option, combining the superior oiling system in the Windsor block with the superior breathing ability of the canted-valve Cleveland type heads), and reach the horsepower level you seek (600 would not be impossible) but IMHO these would not be compatable with your statement from above:

Id rather it be safe on the street (power coming on at 4000rpm where I dont have to rev to) than the torque coming on 2000rpm and throwing me off the road or something as such accidently + it will keep the whole go-kart aspect to it, very light car, very light engine, etc.

The Ford Coyote package would give you the power you want in the power band you seek with only 5.0 displacement and would most likely pass your Australian very restrictive emission requirements right out of the box. It would be the best of both worlds, IMHO!!

Please take a bit of time to research this excellent suggestion from Michael....your willingness to consider the advice of those on this forum is commendable, don't short yourself by not giving Michael's advice serious consideration.

Cheers from Doug!!
 

George

CURRENTLY BANNED
Thanks Doug.

Tornado offering a 625 or something HP coyote.

I will see. I know I want an All Alloy engine though, perhaps Roush can do something to suit the need.
 
Jeez, can't we talk about something else now? How about a good joke:

The scene is set, the night is cold, the campfire is burning and the stars twinkle in the dark night sky...
Three hang-glider pilots, one from Australia, one from South Africa and the other from New Zealand, are sitting round a campfire near Ayers Rock, each embroiled with the bravado for which they are famous.
A night of tall tales begins....
Kiven, the kiwi says, "I must be the meanest, toughest heng glider dude there us. Why, just the other day, I linded in a field and scared a crocodile thet got loose from the swamp. Et ate sux men before I wrestled ut to the ground weth my bare hends end beat ut's bliddy 'ed un.
Jerry from South Africa typically can't stand to be bettered. "Well you guys, I lended orfter a 200 mile flight on a tiny treck, ind a fifteen foot Namibian desert snike slid out from under a rock and made a move for me. I grebbed thet borsted with my bare hinds and tore it's head orf ind sucked the poison down in one gulp. Ind I'm still here today".
Barry the Aussie remained silent, slowly poking the fire with his penis.
 
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