Current State of GT40 Market

[Mike]

What sort of a firestorm would I start if I suggested that the SPF GT40s should be considered differently regarding future values as compared to any of the others save the Holman Moody & the Gelscoe's? This is not to suggest that any of the other replicas are somehow inferior but rather that the SPF tag holds a certain cache in the market that the others do not.

 

[Seymour Snerd]

Well, you may have said that but IMO if you took time to see how they did some of the tech on it, it was more than that.

I didn't say it isn't a technical marvel; I'm just tired of the major manufacturers current design staff raiding their predecessors' genius rather than coming up with original designs. I've made this point at some length in other threads (http://www.gt40s.com/forum/wings-wheels-keels/33904-new-jaguar-e-type-built.html#post328771 ) so I won't belabor it here.

 

[Seymour Snerd]

We would like the factory to increase production, but that is not likely.

But Rick, there has to be a reason for that, and what would motivate it other than a judgement about present and future demand?

 

[Mike]

Michael, I am not sure I agree with you yet. I just don't know if the SPF is too special that it makes it hard to be liked by a mass group of people like the Ford GT can. That is where I struggle to know if it will appreciate/hold value like the GT has. A combined challenge I have seen is that there are not a lot of cars for sale which makes it hard to understand the market. That said all said, if sellers start to hold the line on pricing, with the low supply out there today, there is a potential for prices to keep creeping up. Not that it matters to me, I am not selling either

Kevin

The SPF cars are not going to appreciate like the Ford GTs until they stop making them. That said, there are far fewer SPF cars than there are Ford GTs and in no way is supply outpacing demand. While Ford GTs are appreciating I do think that will slow in the near future. I bought one and had it for two years before selling two years ago for a small profit. Demand was high at the time and prices were just heading up from what was the low since they entered the market. Prices have increased ~20% over the last year or two and I believe demand will begin to slow in the near future as the prices reach equilibrium. When the day comes that SPF cease production, I believe these cars have the potential to increase in demand every bit as much as the Ford GT ever will. This assumes that the number of SPF cars remain relatively small in comparison.

 

[Seymour Snerd]

Why are you such a curmudgeon Alan?

Because I hate rhetorical questions.

 

[Rick Muck- Mark IV]

But Rick, there has to be a reason for that, and what would motivate it other than a judgement about present and future demand?

Because South African labor laws make if difficult to lay off people. Better to be "one short" of demand than "one over". The factory can't add 20 people for 6 months and then cut them loose without large costs being incured.

Is demand off from the 2006-2007 era? Yes, but demand continues at a steady pace and that is better than feast and famine.

 

[Jimmy P]

Michael, I don't disagree with your summation of the SPF brand so no firestorm here. Personally, I think you're right. SPF does a better job of marketing their brand. As I stated....I believe CAV could improve in this area. I think Fran Hall does a remarkable job in insuring his diverse skills are noted and respected by many around the world which speaks volumes about his products too. CAV produces a great product also but sadly (IMO) doesn't push the CAV name as it should. In relative values of SPF's over other makes that's where the waters muddy a bit IMO. Take an owner of a SPF who hasn't really kept his car to the standard it should be and an anal retentive owner (me) of a CAV, RCR, ERA etc. and add (or omit) a few bits and pieces and things can begin to even out. So it really is CAVeat Emptor when it comes to buying anyone of these fantastic products.

Inquiring minds would like to know.....ball park value of your current SPF in your opinion versus an equally kept/maintained CAV, RCR, ERA, TORNADO?

 

[Mike Telow]

I would think resale or value for a particular car would depend on how much the car cost when new as a roller or kit, plus whatever it took to get it finished, as Mark said. If a car from one manufacturer cost 90K to complete and another cost 150K to complete, the more expensive car, if in the same condition, would be worth more. Like comparing a FFR cobra to a Kirkham cobra. Both nice cars but a huge spread in price. I would also think who built the car might also effect price. A lot of people like factory built cars.

 

[Ron Scarboro]

What sort of a firestorm would I start if I suggested that the SPF GT40s should be considered differently regarding future values as compared to any of the others save the Holman Moody & the Gelscoe's? This is not to suggest that any of the other replicas are somehow inferior but rather that the SPF tag holds a certain cache in the market that the others do not.

The cache of SPF occurs because they can use the GT-40 name and that they are manufactured (more consistent build) and most have engine assembly by Dennis (generally well sorted).

Value is always the inflection of agreement between a willing buyer and a willing seller, but generally...

Regardless of make, the more accurate the car the more the value. Webers +, correct engine +, no extraneous modern bits like mirrors and such + because it broadens the appeal of the car. The less accurate cars and the "self builts" will not be worth nearly as much as they become more personal taste.

As a CAV owner I personally believe the CAV is a prettier car in the flesh, but is certainly less accurate a replica. Rear is too low, front nose has the hard edge (I had it ground away on mine), stainless body, has the KVA line, VDO gauges, etc. It will be worth less IMHO if identically prepared to the SPF because of accuracy.

However, it is a more livable car than the SPF though none are daily drivers.

Again, IMHO, none (CAV, SPF, RCR, etc.) will ever be real collector cars as they don't carry any provenance.

 

[Dave Hood]

Unless SPF, CAV and the other replica companies stop making the cars, I don't think they will ever appreciate as much as the Ford GTs have. I think the Ford GT also caters to a broader market (i.e., anyone who loves cars and has a boatload of money to spend) rather than the replicas which are less practical to drive on the road, challenging to register in some states, and require more maintenance that only the owner or a limited number of experienced shops can perform.

Having said that, I have no plans to sell my GT40. But I also don't expect to make money on it when I eventually do sell it.

 

[Larry L.]

There are very few unsold new chassis' at dealers currently (like 3 that I know of)

...is one of them a MKI Heritage Edition by any chance?

...and orders are out 11-12 months.

...which is what I mentioned I'd been told about a month ago and was chided for! (Someone corrected me and said the wait was 6 months.)

 

[Seymour Snerd]

...which is what I mentioned I'd been told about a month ago and was chided for! (Someone corrected me and said the wait was 6 months.)

That was probably me, although there was no intent to chide; I just asked who told you that because sales guys at SPF in Irvine in spring 2012 were talking about 3 months to a friend I took there. So maybe the SPF sales team didn't have their stories straight at the time.

 

[Seymour Snerd]

Because South African labor laws make if difficult to lay off people. .

Aha! So South Africa has implemented the French interpretation of capitalism. How sad. That distorts the markets in just this way.....Uh-oh, I hear the paddock rumbling....I better get out of here....

 

[Seymour Snerd]

The cache of SPF occurs because they can use the GT-40 name and that they are manufactured (more consistent build) and most have engine assembly by Dennis (generally well sorted)..

I think a fuller explanation of any cachet is that unlike CAV, RCR, etc. the SPF is an honest and mostly successful attempt to build an internally accurate replica, that is a replica in the true sense of the word, not a GT40 body on a modern or modernistic chassis. That is the (to me) overwhelming superiority of the product. But as you say, it cuts both ways because when you make it accurate you make it accurately uncomfortable, drafty, leaky, cramped, blah blah blah. I do have a suspicion that way down the road those cars who's builders worked hard to use historically more accurate drivetrains may do better in value retention compared to the huge majority of 427 Windsors. But that's pure speculation. Anticipating future prices is not why I built mine and is a futile endeavor. That time is better spent in the cockpit or the garage. And this thread is about the current state of the market, it's not about everybody's crystal balls. :embarassed:

 

[Mike]

I agree with a lot of what has been said. This market is niche enough that those with just a passing interest will generally recognize certain names and trademarks. I well sorted SPF GT40 with an Olthoff installation will generate greatest interest. I am reasonably comfortable that I could move my SPF asset into cash in short order. I will not get rich anytime soon but a well built and cared for example will always yield the best return over time. What do I know...

 

[Seymour Snerd]

...is one of them a MKI Heritage Edition by any chance? )

You can look for yourself: Superformance | Available Inventory

It does look like P2291 has that appearance.

 

[Mike]

I do have a suspicion that way down the road those cars who's builders worked hard to use historically more accurate drivetrains may do better in value retention compared to the huge majority of 427 Windsors. But that's pure speculation :embarassed:

Suspect in my opinion :thumbsup:

 

[Mike]

You can look for yourself: Superformance | Available Inventory

It does look like P2291 has that appearance.

I checked your link Alan and you're correct! That looks like a made to order chassis for someone who knows whom I'm referring to...

 

[Larry L.]

You can look for yourself: Superformance | Available Inventory

It does look like P2291 has that appearance.

Thank you, sir.

I checked it out...evidently it's a wide body :cry: ...so, no sense getting further info (in my case, that is)...

 

[Larry L.]

That looks like a made to order chassis for someone who knows whom I'm referring to...

Hmmmmmmmm...to whom might you be referring?