Current State of GT40 Market
- Thread starter fsts2k
- Start date
Still in the market for a GT40, however it appears it might be a long search to find what I want, so picked up a 4300 lb brick when I discovered that the last 2 quarters of Kelly Blue Book showing the 2009 Caddy CTS-V hit $41K in quarter 8 (just two years from new, never saw that before) to $45K in quarter 9 and $50K in the current quarter 10. So, just bought a new one. Unique, but civilized driving experiance with the blown, intercooled 556 hp and six speed manual.
The tail pipes the way they exit in the center will match the GT40 and does match my Track-T.
The tail pipes the way they exit in the center will match the GT40 and does match my Track-T.
Bringing this thread back up to the top, not because I am interested in purchasing one or selling one, just interested.
Has anyone else noticed there seems to be less GT40s for sale and/or it appears the volumes have gone back to the 2005 and 2006 years? If my memory is correct there were a few that would change hands each year but not like the volume that I remember from 09/2010. Back then I remember more on ebay and going through auctions.
Yes, I know of the two SPF that went through the auction recently priced very low. As mentioned in that thread, these cars don't do well at auction.
Nevertheless, to me it just seems like overall there are less available used than there used to be. I don't think that is a good or bad thing.
Thoughts?
Kevin
Has anyone else noticed there seems to be less GT40s for sale and/or it appears the volumes have gone back to the 2005 and 2006 years? If my memory is correct there were a few that would change hands each year but not like the volume that I remember from 09/2010. Back then I remember more on ebay and going through auctions.
Yes, I know of the two SPF that went through the auction recently priced very low. As mentioned in that thread, these cars don't do well at auction.
Nevertheless, to me it just seems like overall there are less available used than there used to be. I don't think that is a good or bad thing.
Thoughts?
Kevin
I think by June, you may want to change your thoughts on this. When the new tax laws/regulations start to take affect, some owners may decide they need some ready cash, or want to turn their interest toward less expensive toys. I hope that doesn't happen but I don't hold much faith.
Bill
Bill
Seymour Snerd
Lifetime Supporter
Kevin --
I notice the same thing, but have no theories other than maybe sellers are waiting out the slow economy. When nothing comes on the market then nothing sells, and that's self-fulfilling in some ways. Even if I wanted to sell mine, knowing that a lot of people would expect to pay $70k like in the auctions would make me hesitate to even offer it.
And if Bill is right we may see more sales like that.
I notice the same thing, but have no theories other than maybe sellers are waiting out the slow economy. When nothing comes on the market then nothing sells, and that's self-fulfilling in some ways. Even if I wanted to sell mine, knowing that a lot of people would expect to pay $70k like in the auctions would make me hesitate to even offer it.
And if Bill is right we may see more sales like that.
I had a CSX 4000 series Cobra that would sell for more today than it did in 2007 due to the fact that the rollers are so much more expensive today than they were when my car was made. The Superformance GT40 roller has gone up 10K. ERA no longer produces one at the moment so used is the only option at this time. I wonder if the new cars will drive up the price of the used cars(or in the case of the ERA, lack of new) if the economy gets back on track?
Seymour Snerd
Lifetime Supporter
I suspect so, and had a related thought, namely, the new ones (SPF anyway) aren't selling in volume anywhere near a few years ago, so if that picks up I suspect resales will as well for whatever reason makes the new ones sell.
Mike
Lifetime Supporter
I think it is the opposite. Look at the Ford GT market going gang busters. Why would people cash out of assets that are becoming more scarce for cash that is being printed out of thin air? I bet I could sell my SPF for more than I have in it tomorrow. Don't ask... its not for sale
Seymour Snerd
Lifetime Supporter
Not a good analogy. Superformance GT40s, CAVs, etc, are still in production. If Ford were still making Ford GTs the analogy would be there, but then I doubt the market for used ones would be "going gang busters." In that scenario used ones would just be depreciating used cars, like Porsches, 458s, etc.
Mike
Lifetime Supporter
BS Alan. There are ~4000 Ford GTs in existence minus the few hundred that have been wrecked. There are what 200 SPF GT40s? They are both desirable and a scarce resource and in the case of the SPF extremely scarce. You were probably one of the people saying Ford GTs would be a dime a dozen in a few years back in 2005...
Rick Muck- Mark IV
Supporter
The resale market has seen the overage of cars bought as "toys" and because they were the "new thing" sold off at the loss that such purchases cause and now the market is finding the real, correct value level.
If an SPF costs "X" as a new chassis and takes a minimum of "Y" to complete into a running, driving car then "Z" is the baseline of the market. Motivated sellers will be below that number, those who want instant gratification will pay above. Thus the water level finds itself and currently I see the tide rising. The plastic surgeons toys are now pretty much sold off and the current buyers are much like MHNCO, people who WANT the car and are willing to pay for the value they see in it. And once they have driven it they don't want to part with it!
If an SPF costs "X" as a new chassis and takes a minimum of "Y" to complete into a running, driving car then "Z" is the baseline of the market. Motivated sellers will be below that number, those who want instant gratification will pay above. Thus the water level finds itself and currently I see the tide rising. The plastic surgeons toys are now pretty much sold off and the current buyers are much like MHNCO, people who WANT the car and are willing to pay for the value they see in it. And once they have driven it they don't want to part with it!
Seymour Snerd
Lifetime Supporter
"BS?" How eloquent. How thoughtful. How persuasive.
SPFs are "scarce" because nobody is buying them. Superformance will gladly make as many as there are paying customers. Ford will not make any more GTs. That's a rather fundamental difference from an economics perspective. With or without your expletives, it's still not a good analogy.
And no, I wasn't saying anything at all about Ford GTs in 2005 except "what a bore, yet another skin-deep styling revival."
Brett James-McCall
Moderator
Well, you may have said that but IMO if you took time to see how they did some of the tech on it, it was more than that. For instance, see how the floor was made by sandwiching ally together with carbon inserts, super heating it to bond and then blowing air into the carbon cavities. Quite high tech for the Blue Oval at the time
Also, I think showed homage and a nod to one of the most seminal cars that the company has ever done... they couldn't exactly do a Model T for the 100 years now could they
As for the state of the market, my perception is that I see that the levels have returned to pre-Ford GT levels now that you have a lot of speculators and passing interest people come and gone. By that I mean, most of the people I have met through this forum and the clubs have a genuine interest and desire to own and work with the car. During the Ford GT time, it brought people who may have become aware of the car due to the newer replacement, but ultimately the ownership experience may not have been for them - they wanted plug and play. Just my $0.02
Mike
Lifetime Supporter
Why are you such a curmudgeon Alan? It is taxing to hear nothing but negativity every time you post. Few people have the means or the desire to own an SPF GT40. Thus few are made. The same could be said for many high end limited production cars. What makes some of the cars lose value is when a manufacture comes out with version 2. People want the new and improved model and version 1 loses interest. I don't see a new version of the SPF GT40 coming out anytime soon. Try to look on the positive side of things once in awhile buddy.
Last edited:
Rick Muck- Mark IV
Supporter
Actually, no. There are very few unsold new chassis' at dealers currently (like 3 that I know of) and orders are out 11-12 months. We would like the factory to increase production, but that is not likely. I have a sold car that was ordered March 2012 that is just shipping now.
Remember this is a special product and the ideal production level is one less than demand................
I bet I could sell my SPF for more than I have in it tomorrow. Don't ask... its not for sale
Michael, I am not sure I agree with you yet. I just don't know if the SPF is too special that it makes it hard to be liked by a mass group of people like the Ford GT can. That is where I struggle to know if it will appreciate/hold value like the GT has. A combined challenge I have seen is that there are not a lot of cars for sale which makes it hard to understand the market. That said all said, if sellers start to hold the line on pricing, with the low supply out there today, there is a potential for prices to keep creeping up. Not that it matters to me, I am not selling either
Mark IV said:
Mark, I totally agree with this. I think the comments of the Ford GT excitement dwindling (meaning the Ford GT excitement boosting GT40 demand) and the fact that we seem to have worked through the folks that wanted the car for the look, not necessarily the car for a GT40 has resulted in a more people keeping them longer. That could be one of the factors constraining volume.
Overall I am not sure I agree that the economy is going to have a material impact on sellers now or in the near future; although I could be wrong. I just think the GT40 artificial excitement might be over for the time being and it is back to people that really want the car; thus making volume low.
BTW.. I find market analysis a fun topic regardless of what is being sold, GT40, Oil, Coffee, etc. So if folks are wondering why I this is an interesting topic, I guarantee you that I have zero interest in making money on a GT40. I only like to monitor sales and see what the market is doing.
Kevin
Rick, is your quote about SPF orders based on all SPF products (GT40, Covette, Cobra) or just the GT40? Very interesting as I heard the SPF GT40 market was a wee bit flooded with unsold rollers which held prices down.
My .02, and thats all this is my friends, on current values, is a combination of others thoughts. The new Ford GT will increase in value as time passes and this is based on what we see in today market. Its a low production, high performance, iconically styled "super-car" from one the worlds largest company's. If I had the spare cash I'd buy one tomorrow. ITS VALUE WILL GO UP!
CAV'S, SPF'S, ERA'S, RCR'S, etc. etc, these cars are worth what anyone is willing to pay for them. I see a lot of auctions and if a real Yenko Camaro (and other similar originals) goes on the block then expect to see big money (thinking in relative terms)....but if its a dead-on balls accurate replica it will NEVER REACH the same level. It might bring in a decent amount of money depending on the level of the replication but IT WILL NEVER bring the money of an original. So with that being said what can one expect from a resale perspective of their GT40 replica no matter how good it is? What skews the math are cars like the Holman Moody MKII & the Gelscoe MKI, etc. One has to pay a premium for these but 10-15 years from now what will these particular cars be worth especially if they have been raced in Europe, etc.? That I can not answer but I'll bet they will always be worth a lot more then my CAV and others just like it no matter how close to an original they are. My CAV is a great car from a company that as far as I know only sells GT40's. I believe I'm correct in saying they have not yet reached 200 in total sales. So I have a rare car built by a company that "specializes" in GT40's but still I can't expect the car to bring in a BIG amount at resale. Frankly, I bought the car knowing full well I'd be losing money and digging a money pit. But I didn't care. I wanted it, I bought it, I love it. IMHO, I think all of us have to have some of this in us to own one of these cars. They are a labor of love and those who don't get that.......well, they just don't get it.
My .02, and thats all this is my friends, on current values, is a combination of others thoughts. The new Ford GT will increase in value as time passes and this is based on what we see in today market. Its a low production, high performance, iconically styled "super-car" from one the worlds largest company's. If I had the spare cash I'd buy one tomorrow. ITS VALUE WILL GO UP!
CAV'S, SPF'S, ERA'S, RCR'S, etc. etc, these cars are worth what anyone is willing to pay for them. I see a lot of auctions and if a real Yenko Camaro (and other similar originals) goes on the block then expect to see big money (thinking in relative terms)....but if its a dead-on balls accurate replica it will NEVER REACH the same level. It might bring in a decent amount of money depending on the level of the replication but IT WILL NEVER bring the money of an original. So with that being said what can one expect from a resale perspective of their GT40 replica no matter how good it is? What skews the math are cars like the Holman Moody MKII & the Gelscoe MKI, etc. One has to pay a premium for these but 10-15 years from now what will these particular cars be worth especially if they have been raced in Europe, etc.? That I can not answer but I'll bet they will always be worth a lot more then my CAV and others just like it no matter how close to an original they are. My CAV is a great car from a company that as far as I know only sells GT40's. I believe I'm correct in saying they have not yet reached 200 in total sales. So I have a rare car built by a company that "specializes" in GT40's but still I can't expect the car to bring in a BIG amount at resale. Frankly, I bought the car knowing full well I'd be losing money and digging a money pit. But I didn't care. I wanted it, I bought it, I love it. IMHO, I think all of us have to have some of this in us to own one of these cars. They are a labor of love and those who don't get that.......well, they just don't get it.
Rick Muck- Mark IV
Supporter
That is for the GT40 only. The factory is doing two per month currently and the lead time has streched out to over 11 months as of now.
The other products vary on lead time but can be a short as 60 days to shipping.
There are currently three unsold GT40 chassis showing on the SPF website however the black/silver MK II is sold. I know of one other new chassis not on the website held by a dealer. I know there are a couple of unfinished rollers that are for sale by owners as resale cars. But there is certainly no "glut" of unsold units.
Thank you for your quick reply and I'm happy to read your response as it indicates the market is not slow or dead which means (hopefully!) things are going well for you. I'm unsure of CAV's production numbers or RCR's. While I will say the CAV factory and its US representative have always been responsive to my enquiries I admit I wish they were better represented on this forum.
