Is the right to bear arms outdated.

some thinking about
first i will tell you, we here all was shocked about the dead from so many child´s and peoples, realy shocked, deepesd, and we think about what laws or countrys can do against, we??, we ar from austria, middle of europa,....
we also have problems with people coming and want to get our money, our cars, juwelery, or anything they can find in our homes if the ar inside,...thief´s, bandit´s, or only poor people,.....
what could i do against a thief on the street??,...i could shoot him down, if i am able to do this !!,...but who is able to do??,....and tell me the way i shoud do this??,...with a man in front of me, a pistol in his hand, direction me, and wanting my money??,...he knows what he is doing,...i not !!, i can shoot, i am in training, but i never think about to shoot a person,....and the time i need to feel in my bag to get my pistol out, to clear it and to shoot,....i am 10times killed,....
my thinking about free is easy to explain,...what do you think will happen if marihuana goes free ??, a lot more people will use it ! or??,....because it is free,...
the same i think is with weapons, if it is not alowed to have, many people does not have it, because they realy dont need and have fear about police nd laws,....so you have more than 50% less weapos out,.....from the other 50%, more than 25% will think about to have a weapon,....and sell it !!, because they knows, they ar not able to use it if they need, to slow, to old or only dont want to shoot a people,.....
also a thief get a problem if he cannot buy in each shop a weapon,...he must by it illegal, and this is a crime, 50% of thiefs or aggresives will not buy illegal weapons, because it is not easy,....
i allways wonder if i am in usa and going to a sportshop, what you all can get there,...all you need to shoot, and this in mass, like at a burgershop or a toyshop,...
and i also see childs speak about weapons,....childs???, i feel crazy, because a child with a weapon??,...what should he do with this??,....living safer??,...why??

and yes, people feel safe if they had a pistol in pocked, but is this thrue??, is he realy safe??, or is he only feeling safe??,......

and my last thinking about,....if weapons ar not alowed, police can stop people having pistols, at every controll, at every point, at each carcontroll, on all places,...so it is not easy anymore wearing a weapon on street, or in car,....this makes living to more than 80% safer, no normal can shoot anymore if he goes crazy about his wife or mother or father or chef or politics, because he has no weapon,....

i live near the glock company in austria, i know who want all this safe liver and to be safer, the companys stand behind this fear !!,...glock and all the others makes real a mass of money with our fear, and try to show us how normal it is to use weapons,....

but we live in 2012 and we shoud try to change our thinking to this time,...and if i look around, it will be better to have no weapons, we all have police in our countrys, ilitärs and spezial forces,....we need no weapons, because we all are not able to use it right

please, dont be angry on me, i am realy shocked about what happend, but i know, weapons ar not the answer to such a tragic, it was it never and will not be, never,....

ernst
 


This poorly thought out "sound bite" comparison is completely out of context, since when can you get a gun on an airplane? If one could run everybody in the US through a TSA station then this statement would might be worth uttering. More gun regulation isnt going to change much, nor soon.

This is a really complex problem and one that will not be easily solved nor solved soon. Seems the only direct action that may prevent similar events sooner rather than later would be armed police in every school. Sad, but potentially immediately effective.

The long term solution will be a much longer road....
 

Jim Rosenthal

Supporter
I am not against gun ownership. I am certainly against the ownership of assault weapons by private individuals. Most of the Newtown murders were accomplished with the AR-15- type weapon that Lanza took from his mother's collection. If that had not been there, possibly fewer children would have died. There is only one use for a weapon like an AR-15 and that is to kill as many people as possible. It is not a target weapon, nor a hunting weapon. It is for killing people.

We need to begin gun control with a ban on assault weapons and high-capacity magazines. We should also prohibit the sale of ammunition for assault weapons to private individuals. Those moves would be a good beginning.

I am not against owning guns, I have owned them, and I've enjoyed target shooting. But the current situation is ridiculous.

I will also ask this: how many gun owners are killed with their own guns, including those who kill themselves? Nancy Lanza was killed by her own firearm, by her son, whom she had trained to use it.

It takes many generations to try and educate people to the level of empathy and compassion that would prevent tragedies of this kind. Meanwhile, accepting that we have a lot of crazy people in our midst and removing the means for them to act out their craziness sounds really good to me. Target shooting? Fine. Hunting? Fine. Assault weapons? should be only in the hands of police officers and not available to drug dealers and fucking screwballs like Adam Lanza, may he rot in hell.
 

Jim Craik

Lifetime Supporter
Rob,

Yes its an odd "sound bite", but the point it tries to make is valid.

We were attacked on 9-11 and almost 3,000 people were killed. This resulted in two wars, hundreds of thousands of deaths and a fundamental change many things (security, privacy, airports.....).

But as you know guns kill 3,000+ people every few months, yet we do nothing. I think that is a valid point and a valid question.

Why such a strong reaction to some deaths but not others?
 
Last edited:
and what should armed police do into schools??,....kill the kid after the kid was killing 10 kid´s??,....
could it not be better to have controlls??, and no youngs with weapons??,...the best preventing to "not shooting" is to have no shootgun,..
sorry, sometimes i ar not able to follow thinking,....

ernst
 
So I guess by the arguments for tougher gun control due to the number of gun related deaths we should ban alcohol because of the much larger number of deaths each year in the U.S. due to drunk driving? All gun control will do is get guns out of the hands of law abiding people and assure that criminals will have a free hand.

Steve
 
The perpetrator used an assault weapon "of the same type as issued to the US Armed Forces in Afghanistan" - I am thinking AR 15 variant.

Looks like facts are still coming in. The first accounts said he had the rifle but didn't use it. Now they are saying he used the rifle. I'm still finding conflicting reports.

It could be possible that we are seeing some agenda driven reporting. The media may be saying he 'used' an AR-15 just because he had it in the car.
 
So I guess by the arguments for tougher gun control due to the number of gun related deaths we should ban alcohol because of the much larger number of deaths each year in the U.S. due to drunk driving? All gun control will do is get guns out of the hands of law abiding people and assure that criminals will have a free hand.

Steve

first you ar right,...but,....alcohol is not made to kill people, cars are not made to kill people,...
but dont tell me,.....weapons ar also not made to kill people !!

if guns ar prohibited, each policeman/woman can stop people wearing guns,....easy to understand,....if guns alowed, no policeman/woman knows if you goes crazy in next two hours and goes to kill 10,...and he /she can not controll if you are alowed or thief,....

ernst
 
Looks like facts are still coming in. The first accounts said he had the rifle but didn't use it. Now they are saying he used the rifle. I'm still finding conflicting reports.

It could be possible that we are seeing some agenda driven reporting. The media may be saying he 'used' an AR-15 just because he had it in the car.

does it matter if it was an automatik rifle or only a pistol??,...it happens, and it was a desaster, it kills people, it was still a weapon,....

sorry, i am not able to understand
 
I have had guns since I was a boy, I have never shot anyone or committed any crime! I am not going to argue with you Jim but the facts speak for themselves.

According to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) 32,885 people died in traffic crashes in 2010 in the United States (latest figures available), including an estimated 10,228 people who died in drunk driving crashes, accounting for 31% of all traffic deaths last year.

So because this is "normal" for people to drink is it OK that we kill 10,000 + people a year and do nothing about it? What about the family that is hit by a drunk driver and killed? In the hands of a drunk driver a car is a wepon! Because it's not sensational it will never make National news.

In my mind it makes no difference what type of wepon you're talking about, when the population was dissarmed a Samuri was just as leathel as a gun! Put a sword in the hands of both parties and it becomes a different game. We have great freedoms in this country, we can build planes, cars, boats off road vehicals and almost anything we want. Gun ownership is one of the freedoms we enjoy and who is to say what kind of gun I can own? Just because one person wants an assualt rifle and another wants a shotgun and another wants a hunting rifle they can all kill! The fact remains that if a person wants to kill you they will find a way weather they use a knife or a sword or a gun or even a car. You can't fix this with a ban on any of it because the criminals are not going to play by the rules.

Again, if we are going to start banning things because of the number of innocent people killed we might want to start with drunk driving...

Steve
 
So I guess by the arguments for tougher gun control due to the number of gun related deaths we should ban alcohol because of the much larger number of deaths each year in the U.S. due to drunk driving? All gun control will do is get guns out of the hands of law abiding people and assure that criminals will have a free hand.

Steve

Thank you Steve. I totally agree.

Drunk driving is a pet peve of mine like racing on streets is another.

Jim, you have been asking this question over and over with no one responding to you. I know that answering a question with another question is kind of tacky, but out of all of the gun related deaths are from accidents like gun cleanning? (darwin award) how many are from people protecting themselves, property or others? And how many are from aggressive use? I couldn't think of a better term, but I think you get my meaning.

We can look at cars as weapons like a drunk driver may use one to kill others, but how many car related deaths are from drunk drivers, or from falling asleep, or innattention to driving (cell phones or putting on make up) or aggressive driving or street racing? The total car related deaths are astonishing, but when looking at the cause of the car related deaths it draws a better picture of the point being made.

By looking at the total number of deaths that are from guns as a whole, it could look bad, but I would imagine that some of them are from expected events. Gangs members killing gang members, police protection, or what ever else we may think of. By getting the whole story from different categories would help out the understanding of your graph and better make your point.
 
Hi Jim,

Gun regulation MAY help the looney kids out there that are immersed in the video game brainwashing to not actually be able to go pick up Mom's favorite weapon and mow down people. But sure as hell won't prevent the hard criminals from pillaging you and yours either.

Frankly I am not a gun aficionado but if my life is in danger - I am not one to say oh bummer if the cops instantly appeared or I only had a way to defend myself this bastard wouldn't be putting holes in me right now.

Criminals will always have weapons, but granted taking them away from everybody else might have helped in this situation.

I guess its all about choices - would you rather be defenseless or make it that less people died each year and the criminals had their way with whoever they wanted?

Maybe you.
 
does it matter if it was an automatik rifle or only a pistol??,...it happens, and it was a desaster, it kills people, it was still a weapon,....

sorry, i am not able to understand

Not really. But I dont want to give any more reason to the gun grabber crowd.

Lets face it, there's no such thing as an assault weapon and there's no need to ban them. Anyone who says otherwise is driven by an agenda and not facts. The only thing that really makes a gun more or less deadly is the magazine capacity, not its color or if it has a fancy stock.

For instance, if you had a mini-gun - it wouldn't really be practical if it had only 10 bullets.

trying to define an assault weapon never works, they seem to end up banning the guns by name because they always get around the ban.
 
I have had guns since I was a boy, I have never shot anyone or committed any crime! I am not going to argue with you Jim but the facts speak for themselves.

According to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) 32,885 people died in traffic crashes in 2010 in the United States (latest figures available), including an estimated 10,228 people who died in drunk driving crashes, accounting for 31% of all traffic deaths last year.

So because this is "normal" for people to drink is it OK that we kill 10,000 + people a year and do nothing about it? What about the family that is hit by a drunk driver and killed? In the hands of a drunk driver a car is a wepon! Because it's not sensational it will never make National news.

In my mind it makes no difference what type of wepon you're talking about, when the population was dissarmed a Samuri was just as leathel as a gun! Put a sword in the hands of both parties and it becomes a different game. We have great freedoms in this country, we can build planes, cars, boats off road vehicals and almost anything we want. Gun ownership is one of the freedoms we enjoy and who is to say what kind of gun I can own? Just because one person wants an assualt rifle and another wants a shotgun and another wants a hunting rifle they can all kill! The fact remains that if a person wants to kill you they will find a way weather they use a knife or a sword or a gun or even a car. You can't fix this with a ban on any of it because the criminals are not going to play by the rules.

Again, if we are going to start banning things because of the number of innocent people killed we might want to start with drunk driving...

Steve

drunk driving is a crime,.....yes, it kills people,...yes,....drugs also, police is making war agains all drugdealers,...against all drunken driver,....or??

we loos driving license for more than 1 year if we drive drunk with more than 0.8 promill,...and must pay more than 1500$ if we was stoped from police,....because this is not legal,..if you hade a crash as drunken driver, you still go to jail,...

what about jobs they killing people, zigaretts they also kill people, some food is killing people, some industry is killing people with there produktionwork or with products, reactors killing people and natur,..what about all this,....but nothing from all this is "made to kill",.....

only weapons ar made to kill,......i know, it is your right to wear weapons, and also your freedom,....i only think, it is time to change the sight, we dont life in a war, or wartime, there is so much other happines out to do,...

what i am also schocked about???,...i want tell you, go on youtube, looking for "shoot", or "learning to shoot", or other tag´s you want,....and look what you found, i only see girls firing automatics, crazy people with bombguns, gettlings, 10 pound pistols you never can use, to save your life, less devense, much aggresive learning to use weapons, learning like it is a game to shoot, plates looking humans to shoot at,.....and it is a mass of videos,......dont tell me it is about fear to learn a small girl shoot with a oversized magnum,.....

sorry, i realy, realy dont understand some thinking, some doing,..
 
For all you gun advocates- why were fully automatic weapons banned in 1934? Maybe a lot of police and civilians were dying at the hands of machine gun toting gangsters? Under your logic everyone should be able to possess a Browning 50 caliber machine gun. Would an assault weapon/large magazine ban prevent all shootings? No. Would it reduce the carnage? Look at Australia in the last 16 years with their ban (far more restrictive than our loophole one of the 1990's). Seems to have a positive effect there.
 
As smart as some of you CLAIM to be you really have your heads up your arse. 1- the guns were purchased LEGALLY AND HELD LEGALLY. Regardless as to how many laws you put in place if you outlaw guns than ONLY CRIMINALS WILL HAVE THEM. That's just a fact. Now lets talk about the 2 ton elephant in the room that you all are ducking. THE MOTHER IS 100% at fault. Here are the points that you ALL ignore ""Hanoman said Nancy Lanza told him she introduced guns to Adam as a way to teach him responsibility." ARE YOU F!@ING KIDDING ME!!!!! here is a link to one of MANY articles claiming the same thing. http://www.oregonlive.com/today/index.ssf/2012/12/connecticut_shooting_nancy_lan.html
Then there is the claim that he has a form of Autism which Research suggests people with autism do have a higher rate of aggressive behavior–outbursts, shoving, pushing or angry shouting–than the general population. So we couple this with a mother who had no business doing what she did and made the guns available to what was a ticking time bond because people with Autism WILL ACT OUT. It's not a question of why but when. This was a case of a mother trying to reach out to her kid in all the wrong ways and this is a direct result of her BAD PARENTING SKILLS PERIOD!!!!!

But yea what we need are more laws and rights taken away from the general populous. How about a stupid test for parents. You are darn right I'm pissed because of this stupid mother there are 27 (shooter included who if handled properly might not have done this) dead people in this world.

Some of you really just don't want to or refuse to admit that the writing was on the wall and no amount of laws could have prevented this BUT RESPONSIBLE PARENTING COULD HAVE!!!!!

I know most of you let your emotions lead you and THIS IS THE PROBLEM. Hey lets give kids participation awards and tell them second is as good as first place and when they venture out into the real world where mommy and daddy can't protect them and all their nonsense is revealed to be just that the kids act out and you all sit there asking WHY OH WHY DID THIS HAPPEN. This is a horrific event and if there is anything to be learned from this it's that parents need to stop coddling their kids and trying to be their friends and START BEING PARENTS!!!!!!!!
Now as far as the Israel comment I love how NONE OF YOU addressed the facts posted. You called the size of the populous into question (which shows just how a$$ backward your train of thought is) when it could be said (and has) that with a populous that size that there (oh and lets not forget that Israel sees more violence DAILY than we do here are are you all going to ignore that little fact. You shouldn't because that is the very reason That they all carry over there.) should be a worse ratio because 1 killing would be a larger % of the populous.

Now I'll leave this here for you who refuse to think to mull over. I will say openly that I do not own a gun (I have an English Mastiff for home protection) but I do plan on getting one, one of these days.
 

Attachments

  • gun control lawsa make no sense.jpg
    gun control lawsa make no sense.jpg
    46.8 KB · Views: 311
For all you gun advocates- why were fully automatic weapons banned in 1934? Maybe a lot of police and civilians were dying at the hands of machine gun toting gangsters? Under your logic everyone should be able to possess a Browning 50 caliber machine gun. Would an assault weapon/large magazine ban prevent all shootings? No. Would it reduce the carnage? Look at Australia in the last 16 years with their ban (far more restrictive than our loophole one of the 1990's). Seems to have a positive effect there.

I believe they were banned because of the gang related violence and not mass shootings of civilians. The first mass shooting happened in 1966. You should ask this question - "how was there time when you could go to a hardware store and pick up a machine gun, yet there were no mass shootings of civilians at that time?"

What changed?
 

Jeff Young

GT40s Supporter
Our friends in Australia had an interesting reactio to a similar incident: very strict gun control laws by a conservative PM.

Gun control: After Connecticut shooting, could Australia's laws provide a lesson?

Highlights:

What happened next has been the subject of several academic studies. Violent crime and gun-related deaths did not come to an end in Australia, of course. But as the Washington Post’s Wonkblog pointed out in August, homicides by firearm plunged 59 percent between 1995 and 2006, with no corresponding increase in non-firearm-related homicides. The drop in suicides by gun was even steeper: 65 percent. Studies found a close correlation between the sharp declines and the gun buybacks. Robberies involving a firearm also dropped significantly. Meanwhile, home invasions did not increase, contrary to fears that firearm ownership is needed to deter such crimes. But here’s the most stunning statistic. In the decade before the Port Arthur massacre, there had been 11 mass shootings in the country. There hasn’t been a single one in Australia since.
 
Back
Top