Isis Power

[EGLITOM]

In terms of power wires:

Carlos , Adrian,

what is the difference of running the main battery wire to your fuse panel right in front of the relais block and from there to your aux´s, compared to running the main battery wire to the ISIS master control box and from there to your aux´s ? It is exactly the same except the short power wires from fusebox to relaisblock. As soon you need more than 10 circuits ( and one circuit is one one/off function) you need to run a second battery wire to the second master control box ( especially if you place it close to the aux´s on the other end of the car ( which you could do the very same way with a split relais block) it. ISIS also recommend to put their mega fuse block in front of each master control box.
So what is easier ?

Alex

In terms of 4 way flasher i used this box, which has the same features as the ISIS for the turnsignal control, but with adjustable timing ( not fixed 20s). As easy to wire and works great.
Electro-Tech Products Page

TOM

 

[EGLITOM]

You can't do your own programming for it? I mean, you ask Jay/Mike to make changes to your code (to add in different functionalities over the base ones) which you then upload to your units, but it's not like you can just stick a usb cable into it, fire up your laptop, and start hacking stuff apart.

So this interface is just a means for changing the code supplied by ISIS ? or does it allow one to reprogramme the code by oneself ?

ISIS inCODE Programming Module

TOM

 

[Craig White]

Tom, no, the Incode Programming module is just for uploading the code supplied by the ISIS team. You can't customise any of the code yourself. The ISIS team are very responsive though if you have any custom requests.

We are currently trialling ISIS for our SL-C wiring looms. Our standard SL-C looms were large enough and complex enough to justify looking for another solution. Although we are already at 3 x Powercells, 1 x inMotion & RF Control. Virtually all inputs/ouputs are used, but we are incorporating a lot of production car type features. ISIS team are supporting a lot of custom requirements, which is really appreciated.

 

[EGLITOM]

Tom, no, the Incode Programming module is just for uploading the code supplied by the ISIS team. You can't customise any of the code yourself. The ISIS team are very responsive though if you have any custom requests.

We are currently trialling ISIS for our SL-C wiring looms. Our standard SL-C looms were large enough and complex enough to justify looking for another solution. Although we are already at 3 x Powercells, 1 x inMotion & RF Control. Virtually all inputs/ouputs are used, but we are incorporating a lot of production car type features. ISIS team are supporting a lot of custom requirements, which is really appreciated.

CRaig

Exactly that´s where the ISIS system can play out its benefits and advantages. Just don´t see it on a GT40 or Cobra. Are you using a touchscreen panel to control everything?

Tom

 

[EGLITOM]

Here is a system which is a mix out of the ISIS concept but mechanical.
Not cheap either.

Spaghetti Menders

TOM

 

[Craig White]

CRaig

Are you using a touchscreen panel to control everything?

Tom

No ISIS Touchscreen, we supply a customised button set. We have installed Touchscreens for other reasons, but they need to auto-switch for reverse camera(which means they can also be manually switched for rear view while driving).

Some owners may appreciate being able to show off using inTouch Mobile.

RF Remote Control is standard on our wiring looms. Can be used for remote lock/unlock, remote control of lift kit or anything else you desire. We need it for remote disable of security.

 

[(C)arlos]

Tom,

I just can guess that less power lines means less interferences on the signal lines ( speedometer, tank, oil pressure and others) ...but I might be wrong.... :-! -:?

Also if you do the honest calculation for the big power cable you need something like 6q2 cable to run sufficient power over it and this is quite heavy ( AND EXPENSIVE )...also I don't like to work with such big cables ....
But this might just me ...

cheers
(C)arlos

In terms of power wires:



Carlos , Adrian,

what is the difference of running the main battery wire to your fuse panel right in front of the relais block and from there to your aux´s, compared to running the main battery wire to the ISIS master control box and from there to your aux´s ? It is exactly the same except the short power wires from fusebox to relaisblock. As soon you need more than 10 circuits ( and one circuit is one one/off function) you need to run a second battery wire to the second master control box ( especially if you place it close to the aux´s on the other end of the car ( which you could do the very same way with a split relais block) it. ISIS also recommend to put their mega fuse block in front of each master control box.
So what is easier ?

Alex

In terms of 4 way flasher i used this box, which has the same features as the ISIS for the turnsignal control, but with adjustable timing ( not fixed 20s). As easy to wire and works great.
Electro-Tech Products Page

TOM

 

[EGLITOM]

Tom,

I just can guess that less power lines means less interferences on the signal lines ( speedometer, tank, oil pressure and others) ...but I might be wrong.... :-! -:?

Also if you do the honest calculation for the big power cable you need something like 6q2 cable to run sufficient power over it and this is quite heavy ( AND EXPENSIVE )...also I don't like to work with such big cables ....
But this might just me ...

cheers
(C)arlos

Carlos

if you use relais blocks, your wire to them from the switches can be as small as .75 q2 and even smaller than that, but i like to have some decent wire attached to the switches as otherwise everything becomes so fragile. From the relaisblock to the aux´s you need the same wirediameter with ISIS as with the relaisblock as the same current needs to be transported and the same voltage loss is to achieve. no difference there.
ISIS is defenitely not saving any of your high current power supplying wires or any wire going to your aux´s. How should it, you always need to go from your battery to your aux´s in some way. Air wires are not invented yet ( or may be they are).

Saying this i used a different concept. I wanted to have as less components as possible. so i only use relais for headlights ( 3) Fans (2) horn (1) starter solenoid (1) . Thats it. For all the rest i bought high quality switches which can take up to 20 amps permanently.
I don´t mind pulling wires a little thicker, I mostly used 2,5 q2 for power loads up to 10 amps. for all the signal lines i used 1.0 q2 for small things like gauge lighting or switches to relais i used 4q2.


TOM

 

[Alex]

^^ But the ISIS also making behind-the-dash safer. You may be comfortable having that kind of amps moving behind the dash, but I'm not (and yes, I'm aware that this is how 99.999% of OEMs usually do it ... however, I'm the type of person who looks how an OEM builds a car and cringes when I see this hose rubbing up against that hose, etc... etc... )

 

[EGLITOM]

^^ But the ISIS also making behind-the-dash safer. You may be comfortable having that kind of amps moving behind the dash, but I'm not (and yes, I'm aware that this is how 99.999% of OEMs usually do it ... however, I'm the type of person who looks how an OEM builds a car and cringes when I see this hose rubbing up against that hose, etc... etc... )

AAahh i understand
=> the simpicity of ISIS.:thumbsup:

TOM

 

[Ron Earp]

Also if you do the honest calculation for the big power cable you need something like 6q2 cable to run sufficient power over it and this is quite heavy ( AND EXPENSIVE )...

Not really. This guide will give you the wire gauge for the needed current loads.

American Wire Gauge table and AWG Electrical Current Load Limits with skin depth frequencies

I wire everything from a master bus that is fed through a 60 amp breaker, then from the bus through resettable circuit breakers sized for each circuit, into the appropriate amperage switch, and then to the load. Incidentally, you'll find this is how many small aircraft and most race cars are rigged. Simple, effective, safe, and easily repaired. And yeah, it is simpler and neater than the shown ISIS setup.

 

[Seymour Snerd]

^^ But the ISIS also making behind-the-dash safer. You may be comfortable having that kind of amps moving behind the dash, ...

Let's be clear what schemes we're comparing.

Tom started out talking about a conventional relay-based scheme and then in his second paragraph changed subjects to a "minimal use of relays" scheme that lets mechanical switches handle each entire load current. That second scheme does put the full load current behind the dash, but does so with a vastly reduced parts count and wiring complexity.

However, with a relay-based scheme you can put the relay with the load, so that there is no necessity for high current behind the dash (unless of course you have a load there, like perhaps a blower motor). In that respect ISIS is no better.

 

[Alex]

AAahh i understand
=> the simpicity of ISIS.:thumbsup:



TOM

That was my old harness and I ended up re-doing it to simplify it. Also, about 40% of what you see there is extra loom and wire looped back on itself so I could re-design it later if I wanted to (which is a good thing I did it that way, because I needed the extra wires and slack later on)

Here's where I'm at now for my final harness that deals with both the ISIS and digidash

Could I trim it down more? Absolutely - note how many "dead ends" there are in it (i.e., excess wire incase i need it down the road) - however I like it this way because it's easy for me to work on.

If I got rid of the terminal blocks and soddered te stuff together in a loom all I'd have is 1 piece of wire loom and that's it. However, it'd be more difficult to work on in the future. Also, if I didn't double up wire (the digidash GPS unit has about 20ft of wire I had to double up into the loom) I'd cut down there.

I choose to do it this way to make it easier to work on down the road.

It's silly to say the above is what ISIS represents; no, what ISIS represents is somebody (i.e., me) who's NEVER done any wiring before, who didn't even know what words like 'crimp', 'strip', meant, was able to wire a car and have EVERYTHING working perfectly the first time through.

 

[AdrianBurton]

In terms of power wires:

Carlos , Adrian,

what is the difference of running the main battery wire to your fuse panel right in front of the relais block and from there to your aux´s, compared to running the main battery wire to the ISIS master control box and from there to your aux´s ? It is exactly the same except the short power wires from fusebox to relaisblock. As soon you need more than 10 circuits ( and one circuit is one one/off function) you need to run a second battery wire to the second master control box ( especially if you place it close to the aux´s on the other end of the car ( which you could do the very same way with a split relais block) it. ISIS also recommend to put their mega fuse block in front of each master control box.
So what is easier ?

Alex

In terms of 4 way flasher i used this box, which has the same features as the ISIS for the turnsignal control, but with adjustable timing ( not fixed 20s). As easy to wire and works great.
Electro-Tech Products Page

TOM

Tom,

You are correct, you can do everything that Isis does with relay's but Isis allows the ability to control your circuits better, for example in the Diablo that I am building, I need to lower the window prior to opening the door, that can be done with programming verses a series of switches and timer circuits and all of that can be done without adding more wires to make it happen.

I have no doubt that you have the ability to NOT use the isis kit, but you have to admit for custom control applications it will make life a lot simpler for installation and troubleshooting as well.

EFNFAST,

I know that the programming changes can be handled from the mfgr, but my issue is that I have my own ideas about how I want things done and that isnt always the same from day to day, besides I like the idea of experimenting with my set-up if I didnt I would have bought a car that someone had already done for a lot LESS $$$$ than I have in mine

 

[Ron Earp]

I need to lower the window prior to opening the door, that can be done with programming verses a series of switches and timer circuits and all of that can be done without adding more wires to make it happen.

True. If the car is complicated and someone needs features like that then ISIS is the ticket.

BUT for one thing - you can't program the interface yourself. If someone will produce an ISIS-like package with a Windows programming interface they'll own that market segment.

 

[AdrianBurton]

True. If the car is complicated and someone needs features like that then ISIS is the ticket.

BUT for one thing - you can't program the interface yourself. If someone will produce an ISIS-like package with a Windows programming interface they'll own that market segment.

Agreed, the trick is to get it done for the price of the isis or at least crack the code, which I may try to do...

 

[EGLITOM]

Agreed, the trick is to get it done for the price of the isis or at least crack the code, which I may try to do...

Don´t get it anyway. One can buy a enginemanagement system for less than ISIS , which are programmable by oneself via Windows interface.
Is this so much less complex, don´t think so.
TOM

 

[AdrianBurton]

The isis is simply a multiplexer (can based) not an engine managements system. It is intended to have what is essentially a "programmable relay bank" that you wont have to wire each relay individually but have full control of it will allow for "joining" circuits without additional wiring in addition to time based requirements, pwm control. It doesn't get rid of all wires just lessens the amount of wire needed to accomplish a certain task as what was suggested in the flasher scenario, but take that one step further and add hazard (4way) flasher, all that would be needed to make that work is another switch the controller "latches" all of the required indicators and pulses that circuit at a predetermined rate. So you see how it makes wiring simpler?

Where an engine management is time based (usually) when an event occurs it triggers a response. Reluctor passes signal to fire injector and/or plug, it will also adjust fuel based upon certain preset parameters etc etc etc..... as I am sure you are aware.

As far as interface/ controllers go you could use a dedicated pc to do exactly what the isis can do plus a few other things, but most dont have the inclination, ability, or time to develop it.

Ultimately the decision is yours, build a relay based system or a multiplexer of some kind

 

[EGLITOM]

Adrian

sorry i seem to have created a missunderstanding. I´m fully aware of the difference of an enginemanagement system and ISIS. The point i wanted to make is, that EMS`s are usually programmable by windows interface even the code of them is likely more complex.
As Ron said if one would supply a system like ISIS but have it programmable by the user would have an USP.

TOM

 

[AdrianBurton]

So we do agree then