They are probably all on their way to Palestine now they have seen the nightlife :shocked:
Bob
Israel and Gaza?
- Thread starter Pete
- Start date
They are probably all on their way to Palestine now they have seen the nightlife :shocked:
Bob
Pete McCluskey.
Lifetime Supporter
Good for you Brian, helping the Aussie balance of trade.
Cats always know the most comfortable spot.
Cats always know the most comfortable spot.
marc
Lifetime Supporter
Back on point. Notice how the media leads the conflict with blood, crying mothers, dead or mutilated babies of Palestinians. Then shows the armed IDF troops and missile or other techno military stuff. Is John Q Public getting the real story? Are we just being lead by the new age media to hate Israel? They don't talk about the Universities, the research and development that Israel provides the world. We don't understand the meaning of prayer at the most ancient Jewish landmark in the world? Think they (Hamas) will lob some rockets into the Vatican? They would if they could. I have been to Israel, seen the the destruction by Hamas and the Palestinians, seen the culture of both Arab and Jew in harmony, saw rockets fly from Gaza, enjoyed the beauty of Israel and the ugliness of Palestine.
Rocks thrown at rabbis from atop the Great Wall by guess who, yet I could not go to the temple mount where Mohammad stood although I could go to the church where Jesus was at some point (forgot what).
I didn't even mention the diamond district where the worlds diamonds pass through here.
But if it bleeds it leads. I would not doubt that the Hamas are just using this as a tool for more money from fools that don't know.
I also was in Rome at the Israeli embassy outside the Vatican, want to guess why there are FOUR armed (really armed) guards at its entry?
One more thing. Don't think that the military material that the US sends to Israel doesn't have a price tag on it. They have to pay for each bullet. That seems to be left out of the discussion because we Americans have to look magnanimous.
Rocks thrown at rabbis from atop the Great Wall by guess who, yet I could not go to the temple mount where Mohammad stood although I could go to the church where Jesus was at some point (forgot what).
I didn't even mention the diamond district where the worlds diamonds pass through here.
But if it bleeds it leads. I would not doubt that the Hamas are just using this as a tool for more money from fools that don't know.
I also was in Rome at the Israeli embassy outside the Vatican, want to guess why there are FOUR armed (really armed) guards at its entry?
One more thing. Don't think that the military material that the US sends to Israel doesn't have a price tag on it. They have to pay for each bullet. That seems to be left out of the discussion because we Americans have to look magnanimous.
A couple of things there Mark. I don't think any of us are being "led by the nose by the media" unless we want to be. A healthy dose of third-age cynicism usually puts paid to all that anyway. "Hate" is also a word that is completely out of place in our generation - save it for the youngsters on YouTube.
Finally, they may pay for every bullet, but I wonder what they (the Israelis) spend (or have spent) the $130 billion USD loans over the last 10 years on? Prefabricated settlements? Bottled water? And will they ever be repaid? My guess is no. This is full on Aid by the back door.
Finally, they are in breach of 45 UN Resolutions on Human Rights, and at least 200 UN Resolutions covering everything from settlements to military action and zero have been complied with or even enforced. From any perspective, you might say that is completely unjust since the USA itself went to war when Saddam Hussein broke just four.
From any perspective that isn't Israeli/US centric, the balance sheet is very one sided.
And no, we do not support or condone Hamas, which is a proscribed organisation and rightly so, but nor do the bulk of Palestinians who are subjected to a tyranny of fear, and thus they end up being two time losers.
Finally, they may pay for every bullet, but I wonder what they (the Israelis) spend (or have spent) the $130 billion USD loans over the last 10 years on? Prefabricated settlements? Bottled water? And will they ever be repaid? My guess is no. This is full on Aid by the back door.
Finally, they are in breach of 45 UN Resolutions on Human Rights, and at least 200 UN Resolutions covering everything from settlements to military action and zero have been complied with or even enforced. From any perspective, you might say that is completely unjust since the USA itself went to war when Saddam Hussein broke just four.
From any perspective that isn't Israeli/US centric, the balance sheet is very one sided.
And no, we do not support or condone Hamas, which is a proscribed organisation and rightly so, but nor do the bulk of Palestinians who are subjected to a tyranny of fear, and thus they end up being two time losers.
Pete McCluskey.
Lifetime Supporter
All of which proves that the U.N. Are a bunch of cocktail swilling, hand wringing, toothless
Pussies and should be disbanded.
Pussies and should be disbanded.
marc
Lifetime Supporter
Keith
We are not lead by the nose. "We" being intelligent, knowledgeable, and cognizant of the realities of the day, or common sense people. There are many that don't come close to falling into that catagory and believe that they are told the truth by the media, whether internet, newspaper or magazine. In Texas the Govenor Perry has been brought up on charges for doing his job because he demands the District Attorney of a county resign amid her DUI charges. But back on your response.
AID loans of to all countries by the US not just Israel. 130B in farm equipment heavy machinery and other non military loans. Only the Brits got weapons from the US in WWII as AID loans in the lend lease act. I believe that the US beat Israel in Human rights violations and the UN is about as useful as bar of soap in a mud wrestling competition. One of those resolutions is calling zionism racism. Thats a resolution there boyo!
Hamas is the terrorist group of the palastinians in Gaza, they are also the government of Gaza. If Gaza is lobbing missiles into your back yard knocking about your stuff and scaring your cats to crap on your rugs, what would you do, wait for them to hit your house or favorite gnome (gnome king) or call in some heavy artillery, Colonel? In the mid east you counter force with greater force because those are known eliminator of the initiation of force. You are not dealing with civilized 21st century intellect. You are dealing with 3rd world 6th century barbarians that are taught to strap a bomb on to go to heaven. Unfortunately moderation is seen as weakness to these people.
We are not lead by the nose. "We" being intelligent, knowledgeable, and cognizant of the realities of the day, or common sense people. There are many that don't come close to falling into that catagory and believe that they are told the truth by the media, whether internet, newspaper or magazine. In Texas the Govenor Perry has been brought up on charges for doing his job because he demands the District Attorney of a county resign amid her DUI charges. But back on your response.
AID loans of to all countries by the US not just Israel. 130B in farm equipment heavy machinery and other non military loans. Only the Brits got weapons from the US in WWII as AID loans in the lend lease act. I believe that the US beat Israel in Human rights violations and the UN is about as useful as bar of soap in a mud wrestling competition. One of those resolutions is calling zionism racism. Thats a resolution there boyo!
Hamas is the terrorist group of the palastinians in Gaza, they are also the government of Gaza. If Gaza is lobbing missiles into your back yard knocking about your stuff and scaring your cats to crap on your rugs, what would you do, wait for them to hit your house or favorite gnome (gnome king) or call in some heavy artillery, Colonel? In the mid east you counter force with greater force because those are known eliminator of the initiation of force. You are not dealing with civilized 21st century intellect. You are dealing with 3rd world 6th century barbarians that are taught to strap a bomb on to go to heaven. Unfortunately moderation is seen as weakness to these people.
No one said it would be easy but yes, I agree with all you say re: the provocations, but I might just go about it a different way.
I do believe that attention on this region will wane somewhat, as the IS have recently flagged up Saudi Arabia as the next target.
An intriguing development and I'll bet the war gamers are now furiously at it ..
Intriguing, as this might drive Iran in closer ties with the US...
I do believe that attention on this region will wane somewhat, as the IS have recently flagged up Saudi Arabia as the next target.
An intriguing development and I'll bet the war gamers are now furiously at it ..
Intriguing, as this might drive Iran in closer ties with the US...
Pete McCluskey.
Lifetime Supporter
Churchill knew the problem in 1899.
CHURCHILL ON ISLAM
Unbelievable, but the speech below was written in 1899. (Check Wikipedia - The River War).
The attached short speech from Winston Churchill, was delivered by him in 1899 when he was a young soldier and journalist. It probably sets out the current views of many, but expresses in the wonderful Churchillian turn of phrase and use of the English language, of which he was a past master. Sir Winston Churchill was, without doubt, one of the greatest men of the late 19th and 20th centuries.
He was a brave young soldier, a brilliant journalist, an extraordinary politician and statesman, a great war leader and British Prime Minister, to whom the Western world must be forever in his debt. He was a prophet in his own time. He died on 24th January 1965, at the grand old age of 90 and, after a lifetime of service to his country, was accorded a State funeral.
HERE IS THE SPEECH:
"How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries, improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live.
A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement, the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.
Individual Muslims may show splendid qualities, but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome."
Sir Winston Churchill; (Source: The River War, first edition, Vol II, pages 248-250 London).
CHURCHILL ON ISLAM
Unbelievable, but the speech below was written in 1899. (Check Wikipedia - The River War).
The attached short speech from Winston Churchill, was delivered by him in 1899 when he was a young soldier and journalist. It probably sets out the current views of many, but expresses in the wonderful Churchillian turn of phrase and use of the English language, of which he was a past master. Sir Winston Churchill was, without doubt, one of the greatest men of the late 19th and 20th centuries.
He was a brave young soldier, a brilliant journalist, an extraordinary politician and statesman, a great war leader and British Prime Minister, to whom the Western world must be forever in his debt. He was a prophet in his own time. He died on 24th January 1965, at the grand old age of 90 and, after a lifetime of service to his country, was accorded a State funeral.
HERE IS THE SPEECH:
"How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries, improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live.
A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement, the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.
Individual Muslims may show splendid qualities, but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome."
Sir Winston Churchill; (Source: The River War, first edition, Vol II, pages 248-250 London).
marc
Lifetime Supporter
Easy, I will tell you how easy it would be. Because Islam is such a warring religion, (I will defer all other religions have war like nature, but not to the extent of islam), They require a single supreme leader as the director or dictator if you will of the religion. If you want to see a moderate Islamist remove the imams. It is the method of teaching which creates the extremist. They are intelligent but have been misguided for so long they have lost their capacity of intellect that they had centurys past when they were some of the best mathematicians of their time. They serve up their children as sacrifices for the betterment of now, but their future will be short lived if continue its course. Winston got it, but his predecessors haven't got a clue. Why provide humanitarian aid to those who don't want to be human?
Pete,
A great leader who we owe a lot to, but.
My first thought, would he feel the same 115 years later. I did some research and if it is correct it appears he did not feel the same a year later.
"However, the use of this passage to justify Churchill’s position on Islam is very problematic and misleading. First, it must be understood that Churchill was going through a particularly anti-religious phase when he wrote this. During this period he was fairly contemptuous of all major religions, including Christianity. Second, this passage exists in this form only in the first edition of The River War, which ran for only one year until it was condensed into one volume in 1901, leaving out large swathes of text, at Churchill’s request including the section cited here"
"The next issue, that this passage raises is that form of this passage which typically appears, in blogs, newspapers etc suffers from creative editing. This creative editing by journalists and others leave out key portions of the passage such as the praise for Dervish Muslims who ‘have become brave and loyal soldiers of the queen.’ This creative editing also leaves out Churchill’s point that the only thing that differentiates Christianity and Islam, is Christianity’s relationship with science, which reinforces Churchill’s broadly humanitarian views. It is also notable that creatively edited version of the quote was popularized by Winston Churchill’s grandson, Winston Churchill III, who was a journalist that focused on the Middle East.[3]The fact he was an outspoken advocate of the invasion of Iraq in 2003, might further illustrate how this quote has been used to politicize Churchill’s legacy.
"Additionally, this quote is typically taken out of context. Churchill was referring to the Dervish Muslims who were members of the Mahdiyya, a fundamentalist interpretation of Islam, rather than all Muslims. This again if obvious in the edited out passage ‘Thousands have been brave and loyal soldiers of the Queen.’ The key thing is the number ‘Thousands’. The Indian census which had already reported as early as 1880 that ‘Nearly 41 millions are Mohammedans; so that England is by far the greatest Mohammedan power in the world, so that the Queen reigns over about double as many Moslems as the Khalif himself.’[4] Having been stationed in India, Churchill would have been aware of this, not least because he served with British Muslims and Sheiks. It is also obvious, which in the passage, ‘It has already spread throughout Central Africa…’ Again, had Churchill been speaking about the entire Muslim faith, he would have undoubtedly mentioned the North West Frontier of India, where he fought Islamic fundamentalists."
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Pete McCluskey.
Lifetime Supporter
Nick I have no argument with what you have said and indeed as Keith alludes to the media are renown for cherry picking if it will help their report.
Let me ask you, do you think Islam is not a threat to the way we live?
I most assuredly do. BTW, I think most religions are evil. Bhudism may be the exception.
Let me ask you, do you think Islam is not a threat to the way we live?
I most assuredly do. BTW, I think most religions are evil. Bhudism may be the exception.
No I don't see Islam as a threat.
Terrorists and extremists on the other hand are a different matter, (that's why I don't judge all Catholics on a basis of a few IRA supporters). They are a threat but they do not frighten me.
The majority of religions are not evil the way some men interpret them are.
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Pete McCluskey.
Lifetime Supporter
That's Budhism Btw. (I think).
Pete could you put a tick by the side of the ones you think are evil?
Aladura
Amish
Anglicanism
Asatru
Bah'ai Faith
Baptist
Bön
Buddhism
Candomble
Cao Dai
Catholicism
Chinese Religion
Chopra Center
Christianity
Christian Science
Confucianism
Conservative Judaism
Divine Science
Eckankar
Epicureanism
Episcopalianism
Falun Gong
Germanic Heathenism
Greco-Roman Religion
Hare Krishna (ISKCON)
Hasidic Judaism
Hellenic Reconstructionism
Hinduism
Islam
Jainism
Jehovah's Witnesses
Judaism
Kemetic Reconstructionism
Lutheranism
Mahayana Buddhism
Mayan Religion
Mithraism
Mormonism (LDS)
Neopaganism
New Thought
Nichiren Buddhism
The Occult
Orthodox Christianity
Orthodox Judaism
Presbyterianism
Protestantism
Pure Land Buddhism
Quakers
Rastafari
Religious Science
Satanism
Scientology
Seventh-day Adventist
Shaivism
Shamanism
Shinto
Sikhism
Stoicism
Tendai Buddhism
Theravada Buddhism
Taoism
Tibetan Buddhism
Umbanda
Unification Church
Unitarian Universalism
Unity Church
Vampirism
Vaishnavism
Voodoo
Westboro Baptist Church
Wicca
Witchcraft
Worldwide Church of God
Zen
Zoroastrainism
Bob
Pete McCluskey.
Lifetime Supporter
What Keith said. Imagine how peaceful the world would be without them.
...or how peaceful it would be if people followed the actual teachings of most of them.
