Lucked out again

[Michael Holmes]

Wasn't sure whether to call the post, safety wire isn't or check you spinners so i opted to the way i feel. After high speed track time this weekend and an 80 mph jaunt on the 405, this happened at 30 mph.

So the moral of this story is double, triple check your spinners and don't count on safety wire to keep them from coming off.

 

[craig]

Wow!! any body damage?

 

[Michael Holmes]

Wow!! any body damage?

Little rub on the fender well, will buff out. Luckily the front suspension tucks inside the wheel well once the wheel comes off and with the floor being solid from front to back it just slid on it, no harm no foul.
:shocked:

 

[Randy V]

Mike - oh my gosh!!!!

Are you saying that the safety wire broke? What wire did you use and how tightly was it twisted?

I've seen many cases where the stainless wire was stressed to close to fracture point by twisting too tightly..

Were you able to recover the spinner?

 

[Damian]

Well damn the car we are all glad that you are O.K.

 

[Jimmy P]

Michael, Like Damian...really glad to hear it happened at 30 and not 80 and that you're ok. On another note...nice looking car even sidelined like it is in the photo. I too would like to hear more about the wheel, spinner and wire as to cause. Certainly something we should all be aware of.

 

[Michael Holmes]

Pre Willow Springs I had my mechanic work on the front brakes, turned the rotors major inspection (I had been having shuttering while braking). I know for a fact the hubs remained on the correct side and that the amount of force with a lead hammer on the spinners was enough to destroy my lead hammer.

I trailered the car to the track, safety wired the spinners with very thick stainless wire and drove several sessions. I noticed at high speed the car was swaying and when in the pits i heard a thump when braking, that was all it took for me to put the car back on the trailer.

I chose to drive the car to my studio since the car was not going to be driven fast I had no worries. I was using an iphone app to see if my speedo was off and it is, and while driving at reduced speed i heard a loud ting (spinner hitting the street) in a fraction the car shuttered, the front clip rose with the impact of the tire hitting the underside and the car violently slammed to the pavement.

I had enough forward momentum to aim the car toward the inside shoulder where i came to rest just outside of traffic lanes. My mechanic met me where we jacked the car up, put the wheel on, hammered the hell out of the spinner and drove the car, gingerly, home where it sits now.

 

[Howard Jones]

SAFETY WIRE WILL NOT KEEP THE KNOCK OFF ON. The wire is to serve as a indication that the knockoff has loosened and broken the safety wire. Put it on tight so that the knockoff CANNOT turn without breaking the wire. Then check the wire EVERYTIME you drive the car.

I walk around the car and step up onto a wing and put my full weight onto each wheel's knock off every time I get out of the car at the track, look carefully at each safety wire , and generally give each knock off a once over.

Thats very bad JU JU..... count yourself VERY lucky.

I'll post a picture of my hammer and how I do mine when I get home. Throw the damn led hammer away.

 

[Michael Holmes]

I named the post lucked again, here is the first lucked out.

Willow Springs RCR GT40 Spin turn 9 - YouTube

 

[Michael Holmes]

SAFETY WIRE WILL NOT KEEP THE KNOCK OFF ON. The wire is to serve as a indication that the knockoff has loosened and broken the safety wire. Put it on tight so that the knockoff CANNOT turn without breaking the wire. Then check the wire EVERYTIME you drive the car.

I walk around the car and step up onto a wing and put my full weight onto each wheel's knock off every time I get out of the car at the track, look carefully at each safety wire , and generally give each knock off a once over.

Thats very bad JU JU..... count yourself VERY lucky.

I'll post a picture of my hammer and how I do mine when I get home. Throw the damn led hammer away.

I think i clearly stated that, and oh didn't i say was lucky? But thanks for the advice. So are you saying that your weight is more than the striking force of a lead hammer?

 

[Rick Muck- Mark IV]

Some hubs will not properly seat the knock off when the wheel is on the ground the chassis weight is on the hub. Raising the wheel/hub off the ground so the hub is "unweighted" can improve the seating of the spinner.

Safety wire is just that, a back-up to a properly torqued spinner. Having lost a hub nut on an AC MK IV once after many hours at Pocono Raceway, I know what it feels like. Anger at the issue but relief that it wasn't at 125 MPH!

 

Surely clips like the one below (lifted from Sandy's post of some time ago) or the diaper pin style clips would prevent losing a spinner and wheel entirely? Those with more knowledge please chime in.

 

[Howard Jones]

Mike, What I am saying is that I gave up on those led hammers. It's very hard to get consistant strikes when the hammer face deforms with each blow. The last one I had lasted one time around the car and then the head flew off the handle and hit me in the foot. FPOS.

I use a piece of Alum bar stock aprox 2.5 X 2.5 X 28 inchs and a steel 2 pound hammer. Then I place one end of the bar stock onto the wing of the knock off and strike the other end. The face of bar stock can be dressed as it becomes dammaged and the hammer does not need to be directed into the rear wheel to strike the wing. This can be difficult to do consistently while avoiding hitting the bodywork on a deep offset wheel. It serves the same purpose at the front avoiding hitting the bodywork during the swing.

The alum to alum contact will not mar the knock off wing as the knock off is usually T6 and the bar stock is much softer.

I agree that the wheel should be seated when off the ground. Then the car can be lowered and tightened fully.

Really nice car, good thing you are lucky. Hope to see you at willow springs next year.

 

[David in Durango]

Uhhhh, dooood - hope you have the fancy dismounts out of your system!

I've seen a hired hand at the Colorado Grand Tour with a BFH checking EVERY knockoff on EVERY car at EVERY stop.

Be safe, have fun.

 

[Seymour Snerd]

Wasn't sure whether to call the post, safety wire isn't or check you spinners so i opted to the way i feel. After high speed track time this weekend and an 80 mph jaunt on the 405, this happened at 30 mph.

So the moral of this story is double, triple check your spinners and don't count on safety wire to keep them from coming off.

FWIW, and not to contradict any of the previous advice, but here's Dennis Olthoff's take on knockoff installation:

Superformance Cobra, Daytona Coupe and GT40 Wheel Care - YouTube

I too wonder about spring clips as a last-ditch "OK it's loose, let's keep it from coming off entirely" solution. Easy enough to add....

 

[Ron McCall]

Nice #!!!!

 

[Mike]

FWIW, and not to contradict any of the previous advice, but here's Dennis Olthoff's take on knockoff installation:

Superformance Cobra, Daytona Coupe and GT40 Wheel Care - YouTube

I too wonder about spring clips as a last-ditch "OK it's loose, let's keep it from coming off entirely" solution. Easy enough to add....

I went over this with Dennis when I picked my car up in Sep. I had about 900 miles on mine before I put it up for winter and had checked each time I came back to the garage. I haven't detected any loosening yet. I hesitate to say Dennis said this or that but I will say he did not insist on running safety wire. I will continue to check mine with a couple hammer taps each time out just as a normal operating procedure. One wonders if the safety wire might give folks a false sense of security and cause them to not check on a regular basis leading to a nasty surprise like above.

 

Glad your OK that's the main thing.
Reminds us all to make our regular checks.

Reminds me of the song " 3 wheels on my wagon but I'm still rolling along "

 

[René]

ooo thats bad luck...
between my ears I like 5 bolts a wheel more, I would not like to hit the spinner every-time with a lead-hammer.
is it hard to convert the system to say 5 bolt system?

 

[Bill Musarra]

When finally getting my car on the groound I drove it around the block and trailered to the dyno shop. Drove it to the car bay but we never got to test it because the comuters stopped talking to each other. Put it on the trailer and home we went. While working on the car on the trailer I had to remove the rear tire for some cursory work. Gave a knock with the hammer I use for tightening the spinners to the rear. I forgot for a minute that I had swapped sides with the hubs from the discussion on which way to tighten the spinners. The spinner moved a quater of an inch. This was before I had added the safety wire. It was on my to do list that just hadn't been done. This told me that with that short drive around the block and the short one to the engine bay, the rears at least can loosen. All have been reset and wired.

Bill