Navy Seals charged.
- Thread starter Pete
- Start date
Reading the SEAL's account, it sounds like:
- the Detainee is using our liberal viewpoint to justify how bad we are. He should be thankful he had only a bloody lip, and the SEALS didn't just shoot him there and then.
- What would have happened had the capture been described as a firefight and the detainee been killed?
As I have not spent any time in the service, I would be curious to hear someone with more experience in this matter comment.
I have heard it said that a Moslem can lie to an infidal and not sin. I guess the question becomes, can we trust someone like the detainee to be telling the truth?
- the Detainee is using our liberal viewpoint to justify how bad we are. He should be thankful he had only a bloody lip, and the SEALS didn't just shoot him there and then.
- What would have happened had the capture been described as a firefight and the detainee been killed?
As I have not spent any time in the service, I would be curious to hear someone with more experience in this matter comment.
I have heard it said that a Moslem can lie to an infidal and not sin. I guess the question becomes, can we trust someone like the detainee to be telling the truth?
Seems to me that he was to be captured alive for intelligence reasons, or (depending on who was watching) he would have been presumed to have a weapon and killed on the spot! The SEALS were doing thier job. Terrorists should not be afforded any "rights". PERIOD! Closed my book, but have 11 years combat experience on and off...
Well, Pete, part of the problem (??) is the source. It hasn't been on other news sources for a good reason. Fox News has lost all credibility to those of us who prefer our news from an unbiased source, they have become the self-appointed opposition to the Obamma administration.
I say "..problem (??).." b/c while I do not adhere to the staunch conservative agenda, I, too, realize there is much in the way of unrealized promise from Obamma's campaign. Perhaps we did make a mistake, IMHO it will just take more time to figure that out.
Right you are, Terry! Fox News was the ONLY "news" network that refused to broadcast the Obamma address to the joint session of congress about the "health care" overhaul....it just didn't fit the Fox News "agenda", and if they refused to carry that address b/c of their hatred of everything "...Obamma", there is plenty more they'll keep from us, too....in fact, anything that does not agree with their own agenda.
Not so, Brian....to engage our troops in a war requires an act of congress. The last time that happened we were in WWII. Korea, Vietnam, Iraq I and II, Afghanistan (and all the other little scirmishes we've entered, like Granada), none of these are wars in the strictest of senses. I, for one, DO wish the U.S. would return to the use of the congressional power to wage war, at least it would have prohibited "police actions" or "advisors" like have gotten us into all the fracases since 1950 (just so you know, my dad was a career military man, flew P51's over Europe in WWII, was shot down 3X, once by friendly forces, and was instrumental in the development of NORAD. You can find his confirmed kill on the internet. Just didn't want anyone to think I'm a peace-flag waving liberal).
You know, Al, with all due respect there are some of us who believe even worse things happened at the hand of GeeDub! IMHO, which isn't worth a whole lot, I understand, GeeDub is a war criminal for invading another country that was simply at civil war with itself, and I believe he should be interred right now down in Gitmo with all those terrorists we're holding "for their own good". Sure he listened to bad intelligence/advice, but that decision was his and his alone and resulted in WAAAAAY more deaths and mistreatment than this one incident. He's not the first, I remember Oliver North back in the Vietnam "conflict", he was sentenced to life in a military prison for murdering civilians and was out in 3 years, so I wouldn't think these guys are in for a treatment that is anywhere as near severe as good ol' Ollie's.
Agreed 100%!!!
Agreed, too, Brian....although if we send them overseas and they get their just reward, they'll be cannonized as heroes just like the Islamist suicide bombers. Better yet we just vote the cowardly dogs out of office, send them home with their tails tucked in behind them. I'd say impeach Obamma, but if we couldn't impeach GeeDub, there ain't a chance in hell of impeaching the current President of the United States.
As the child of a WWII war hero and military "lifer", I feel we as a nation have become enamored of ways to circumvent the required procedure to enter any sort of military invasion. Let's grow some brass'ns and start declaring war again, as we were suppose to be doing all along, then perhaps we'll regain the world's respect we had at the end of the last formal "war". The U.S. was the hero then, not the villian we've allowed ourselves to become in the world's eyes!
Thus endeth my rant........
Doug
Jim Craik
Lifetime Supporter
Doug Sainlar,
Thank you for saying what needs to be said!
I do not understand how these people who think they are "great Americans" hate America so much!
They say they love America and then spout out that we should not follow the rule of law or even war because someone has convinced then that this the right thing to do.
Please try and listen to more than just hate filled, one sided news and you might find that America is a great country and mabye even learn to love it!
America is a democracy, we had an election and Obama won be a large margin, GET OVER IT. This is not bate and switch, he ran on health care reform, and America elected him. Get over it.
p.s. Doug, I think you meant Lt Calley, not Oliver North, although they both did there part to damage this country, even Ronald Reagan felt Mr North was un-American.
Thank you for saying what needs to be said!
I do not understand how these people who think they are "great Americans" hate America so much!
They say they love America and then spout out that we should not follow the rule of law or even war because someone has convinced then that this the right thing to do.
Please try and listen to more than just hate filled, one sided news and you might find that America is a great country and mabye even learn to love it!
America is a democracy, we had an election and Obama won be a large margin, GET OVER IT. This is not bate and switch, he ran on health care reform, and America elected him. Get over it.
p.s. Doug, I think you meant Lt Calley, not Oliver North, although they both did there part to damage this country, even Ronald Reagan felt Mr North was un-American.
I see that CNN and CBS have the same basic story, and Fox erroneously reported the same unbiased report, what was Fox thinking? There must be some heinous act commited by the Seals, we need to find it!
Pete McCluskey.
Lifetime Supporter
Doug read my first post again there it is below, I clearly say "if it is true it sucks".
As it has turned out both CNN and CBS have carried the same story.
I am aware Fox has a bias.
Lesson for all SEALS from now on, do not bring them back alive just waste the camel shagging pricks.
As it has turned out both CNN and CBS have carried the same story.
I am aware Fox has a bias.
Lesson for all SEALS from now on, do not bring them back alive just waste the camel shagging pricks.
It seems that everyone is aware that Fox News is a conservative right leaning station, while no one ever says that ABC, CBS, and NBC are liberal left leaning stations. So what's your point!
Fox is certainly right leaning...but is there anyone on this forum that really believes CNN, MSNBC etc. are totally neutral and unbiased? Like the New York Times? And Los Angeles Times?
The problem is there is no more 'news', it's all slanted or spun depending on the individual agency's agenda...or more accurately the media owner's politics, The Rupert Murdochs or Ted Turners (hello Jane bloody Fonda). How about climate change and email leaks? World government agendas?
Oh dear, What is a poor citizen to think?
The problem is there is no more 'news', it's all slanted or spun depending on the individual agency's agenda...or more accurately the media owner's politics, The Rupert Murdochs or Ted Turners (hello Jane bloody Fonda). How about climate change and email leaks? World government agendas?
Oh dear, What is a poor citizen to think?
Jeff Young
GT40s Supporter
Actually, folks like Ann Coulter have done a good job of convincing people that "the mainstream media" is biased in some way without any hard data to support the proposition. Bizarre really.
Fox (which I watch some) says it's fair and balanced and tries to pass itself off as a legitimate, objective news organization, when it obviously is not. That is the problem I have with Fox. People treat it as news, when it really is advocacy journalism. MSNBC the same, but at least they don't pretend to be news.
Al, you were wrong -- there was no conspiracy here by the "mainstream media" to "bury" this story. I'm not sure what searching you did to back up your claim that searches didn't turn up the story on CBS or CNN. It took me about 2 minutes to find the two stories above.
Last, and then I'm done because I swore I won't post on threads like these (and here I am doing it) -- why are you folks blaiming President Obama, the left, and political correctness for this?
From what reading I did, it was these Seals superiors -- i.e. other Seals or Navy officers -- who investigated these charges and decided there was enough to convene a captain's mast (which would have only resulted in administrative punishment). The Seals felt they are 100% innocent and asked for a court martial -- as they are entitled.
I hope in my heart of hearts that these guys were just doing their job, can prove that at the courts martial they requested to rebut charges the Navy filed against them, that they are acquitted, and we all move on.
But if they broke the rules the Navy requires them to follow, then there are repercussions for doing so. Just like the rest of us. I obviously respect these men's service 100% and am behind them 100%. But at the same time, just because you are in the service doesn't mean you get a free pass from the rules.
Fox (which I watch some) says it's fair and balanced and tries to pass itself off as a legitimate, objective news organization, when it obviously is not. That is the problem I have with Fox. People treat it as news, when it really is advocacy journalism. MSNBC the same, but at least they don't pretend to be news.
Al, you were wrong -- there was no conspiracy here by the "mainstream media" to "bury" this story. I'm not sure what searching you did to back up your claim that searches didn't turn up the story on CBS or CNN. It took me about 2 minutes to find the two stories above.
Last, and then I'm done because I swore I won't post on threads like these (and here I am doing it) -- why are you folks blaiming President Obama, the left, and political correctness for this?
From what reading I did, it was these Seals superiors -- i.e. other Seals or Navy officers -- who investigated these charges and decided there was enough to convene a captain's mast (which would have only resulted in administrative punishment). The Seals felt they are 100% innocent and asked for a court martial -- as they are entitled.
I hope in my heart of hearts that these guys were just doing their job, can prove that at the courts martial they requested to rebut charges the Navy filed against them, that they are acquitted, and we all move on.
But if they broke the rules the Navy requires them to follow, then there are repercussions for doing so. Just like the rest of us. I obviously respect these men's service 100% and am behind them 100%. But at the same time, just because you are in the service doesn't mean you get a free pass from the rules.
You are right, I put in the incorrect search words and received nothing, while it was covered by CBS & CNN. As far as the "mainstream media" is concerned they report what makes the left look good as much as Fox reports what makes the right look good. I believe that the Seals asked for a court martial because they feel that this is a BS rap and don't want "administrative punishment" that will soil their records.
There is an annual contest at Texas A&M University calling for the most appropriate definition of a contemporary term.
This year's term was
"Political Correctness."
The winner wrote:
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."
This year's term was
"Political Correctness."
The winner wrote:
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."
I am very appreciative of the potential ultimate sacrifice each member of our military is willing to perform. It allows each of us to express our feelings and ideas as we see fit. I appreciate the comments so far as ideas mentioned, even opposing to my view, are thoughts that I didn't consider. I will say that as Al has said, there must be more to the story that just hasn't been brought out and maybe will never be brought to light. If there is any proof of wrong doing as outlined by their rules of engagement, they should be charged by their own and if found guilty, punished by their own.
As to the media issues. All of the so called mainstream media is very left leaning and Fox News is right. However, Fox is more central than all of the others that are left leaning. I find it refreshing to have another source for news that doesn't just drink the cool aid of the President.
I in no way support what O has done at all. With the take over of health care, will control over 50% of the GDP inside of one year of taking over the presidency. Unbelievable that with such a great country built on democracy has been brought to the brink of socialism.
Anyone willing to trade some freedom for some security deserve neither.
As to the media issues. All of the so called mainstream media is very left leaning and Fox News is right. However, Fox is more central than all of the others that are left leaning. I find it refreshing to have another source for news that doesn't just drink the cool aid of the President.
I in no way support what O has done at all. With the take over of health care, will control over 50% of the GDP inside of one year of taking over the presidency. Unbelievable that with such a great country built on democracy has been brought to the brink of socialism.
Anyone willing to trade some freedom for some security deserve neither.
Jeff Young
GT40s Supporter
Mike -- amen. What happened to our Walter Cronkites and Edward R. Murrows and David Brinkleys?
Actually, I know what happened -- $$$$. I don't begrudge Fox and Rupert Murdoch for making money off of political advocacy/entertainment. But I am saddened that they have changed the "news" paradigm so much that Fox News is viewed by many as a legitimate news source, and that "everything else" has a liberal bias.
Still, I would like to see some hard evidence of this liberal bias, other than Ann Coulter told me so.
Actually, I know what happened -- $$$$. I don't begrudge Fox and Rupert Murdoch for making money off of political advocacy/entertainment. But I am saddened that they have changed the "news" paradigm so much that Fox News is viewed by many as a legitimate news source, and that "everything else" has a liberal bias.
Still, I would like to see some hard evidence of this liberal bias, other than Ann Coulter told me so.
Jeff,
You have to remember that BHO, said on BBC World Service, broadcast on PBS, broadcast after the election / inauguration a Pol Sci professor's comment that BHO wants to make the Democratic party into the British Labour party.
Western Europe is not the same pull your boot straps up democracy as the US of A.
As I tell countless people Yanks are different than europeans. We believe in making opportunity work for us. Europeans more commonly expect an entitlement.
I saw this as a dual national USA / Italian.
You have to remember that BHO, said on BBC World Service, broadcast on PBS, broadcast after the election / inauguration a Pol Sci professor's comment that BHO wants to make the Democratic party into the British Labour party.
Western Europe is not the same pull your boot straps up democracy as the US of A.
As I tell countless people Yanks are different than europeans. We believe in making opportunity work for us. Europeans more commonly expect an entitlement.
I saw this as a dual national USA / Italian.
What makes one news source legitimate and one other not? Is Fox news illegitimate just because BO says so? Sometimes people cannot see bias because it agrees with their point of view. It is refreshing to see a legitimate news source reflecting more of my view points. As much as people say that the left news organizations are legitimate and the right not, obviously they cannot see that their news organizations just represent their own view points. I watch both just to see what the other side is saying.
This post is really about those making us safe and getting in trouble for it.
One thing that I just don't understand. Don't you have to be an American to receive American rights that our blood was shed for? Since when do we extend our civil rights to those not of our citizenship? Maybe I am just missing something.
This post is really about those making us safe and getting in trouble for it.
One thing that I just don't understand. Don't you have to be an American to receive American rights that our blood was shed for? Since when do we extend our civil rights to those not of our citizenship? Maybe I am just missing something.
Jeff Young
GT40s Supporter
You are missing something. No one is saying that the accused individual here needs to have been Miranda rights, etc. What (apparently) happened is that the Seals violated their OWN rules, or the Navy's, in how they treated the prisoner. So, other Seals, or the Navy, have charged them with violating the rules.
The "they do it to keep us safe" justification is surely a pretty slippery slope right? You understand that?
Fox News was an illegitimate source of "news" long before last November. It is a political advocacy channel. I can point to you a thousand hard facts as to why that is, starting with Mssrs. Beck, Hannity and O'Reilly. And that is fine, so long as one understands what one is watching.
Please give me hard data showing the liberal bias that is so pervasive in the rest of the media.
I can point you to some objective non-partisan reading -- and data -- that strongly suggests that is not the case.
The idea that all of the media is biased against conservatives is mostly a myth that the right had done an excellent job of purveying to all you free thinkers as fact.
Start here:
Myths Debunked - The Liberal Media
Seriously. Think independently about this. Don't just accept what a talking head on your favorite channel says.
Domtoni, I'm lost. So because a poly sci professor of some sort says that President Obama wants the Democractic Party to be like the UK Labor Party, that this is the case?
The "they do it to keep us safe" justification is surely a pretty slippery slope right? You understand that?
Fox News was an illegitimate source of "news" long before last November. It is a political advocacy channel. I can point to you a thousand hard facts as to why that is, starting with Mssrs. Beck, Hannity and O'Reilly. And that is fine, so long as one understands what one is watching.
Please give me hard data showing the liberal bias that is so pervasive in the rest of the media.
I can point you to some objective non-partisan reading -- and data -- that strongly suggests that is not the case.
The idea that all of the media is biased against conservatives is mostly a myth that the right had done an excellent job of purveying to all you free thinkers as fact.
Start here:
Myths Debunked - The Liberal Media
Seriously. Think independently about this. Don't just accept what a talking head on your favorite channel says.
Domtoni, I'm lost. So because a poly sci professor of some sort says that President Obama wants the Democractic Party to be like the UK Labor Party, that this is the case?
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