Note to Conservatives

[Roark_John]

Wyoming,

I see you do not understand, the federal law did repeal the state laws.

What part of the Civil Rights act talks of "special people", no were in the law is any "special people" mentioned, It outlaws racial segregation and it outlawed unequal application for voter registration. It just made everyone equal, what is wrong with that?


NO, it didn't. It was a constitutional amendment. That is NOT a repeal of laws. It didn't outlaw racial segregation, but then you know all.


So republicans growing government is OK if its not the president? That is a very weak argument.

I didn't say that, but again, you know all...

Reagan did not have to sign this bill that took away you rights to own some of as you say "toys". Another very weak argument!

How is it weak to recognize that an elected official sponsored a bill and helped getting it passed? How is that any different than when your precious DEMS do it? Your logic, or lack thereof, is dumbfounding.

You brought this up with your comment about more personal freedoms being lost under Democrats than Republicans didn't you!



Oh my, is this the best you can do, you equate Waco and Ruby Ridge with the storm troopers and putting you up against a wall for no reason? Weather you agree with the law or not, these people were fragrantly breaking laws, refused to surrender, shot at and killed Police officers and in the Waco case died in a fire that they could have easily avoided. You are going to have to do better than this!

Actually...if you would care to take the time to research Ruby Ridge, you would realize that the governments case against Randy Weaver was flawed at best, and he was acquitted of all charges but one, that of not appearing at his initial court appearance that he was subpeonaed for. The COURTS (you know, the acting arm of the JUDICIAL branch, part of the established checks & balances system....) said that the GOVERNMENT acted egregiously and outside their scope. But whatever, because you know it all...

Not to mention you ignored the bit about our own government performing medical experiments on blacks in military service...but I guess the right to vote means more to you, than the right to be free from physical harm?

You are a troll. Go back under the bridge you hide under during the day.

 

[Jim Craik]

When you can't win an argument, you again turn to personal attacks! I'm really not surprised.

Am I a troll or a snowflake it so hard to keep track.

 

[Jim Craik]

Not all militias are right-wing or extremist nutjobs.

posted by Wyoming


At last something we can agree on, just some are right-wing or extremist nut jobs

 

[Jim Craik]

Wyoming, you just posted this about the Civil Rights Act of 1964

NO, it didn't. It was a constitutional amendment. That is NOT a repeal of laws. It didn't outlaw racial segregation, but then you know all.

I definitely do not know all but I do know that this was an act passed through Congress and signed by the president, not a Constitutional amendment.

 

[Roark_John]

So would you say that the 24th Amendment was not part of the Civil Rights Act, or more properly, the Civil Rights movement?

Wyoming, you just posted this about the Civil Rights Act of 1964



I definitely do not know all but I do know that this was an act passed through Congress and signed by the president, not a Constitutional amendment.

 

[Roark_John]

Anytime I make a valid point, you either conveniently ignore it or thrown more detritus into your response.

I am talking with YOU, therefore when I make ANY comment to you it is going to be personal.

Only you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a troll and a snowflake

When you can't win an argument, you again turn to personal attacks! I'm really not surprised.

Am I a troll or a snowflake it so hard to keep track.

 

[Jim Craik]

None of the Presidents in the last 50 years have done a damned thing about curbing illegal immigration...BOTH PARTIES. That should be an impeachable offense, as they aren't following the laws established in this country.

That is not true, one president, a conservative Republican named Ronald Reagan has done something about illegal aliens, he pushed through and signed an amnesty bill that gave them citizenship.

 

[Roark_John]

As to your incessant, repeated natterings about the Civil Rights Act and how much good that was for the country...I present the 15th Amendment. Which was passed....in 1870. What is that...90 years before the Civil Rights movement? Why did we need MORE laws and amendments on the books to fix something that for all intents & purposes was already fixed?

Oh...that's right...because BLACKS wanted to be SPECIAL. It wasn't until it suited the motives of the black movement that they included OTHER minorities. Because they wanted to be SPECIAL, with SPECIAL TREATMENT. What is so hard to understand about any of this?

Is it that assumed Liberal White Guilt you encumber yourself with?

 

[Jim Craik]

Oh...that's right...because BLACKS wanted to be SPECIAL. It wasn't until it suited the motives of the black movement that they included OTHER minorities. Because they wanted to be SPECIAL, with SPECIAL TREATMENT. What is so hard to understand about any of this?

Poted by Wyoming


So now it becomes clear what you do not like about this Act. You do not think that blacks should be equal, who would have thought! Nowhere in the act are blacks mentioned. What part of equal gives anyone SPECIAL TREATMENT?

 

[Roark_John]

You are a fool, and I do not suffer fools gladly.

If you cannot tell the difference between a service instituted for the purpose of protecting the welfare and safety of the citizenry....and a service instituted to offer free goods at the expense of others hard work, and that potentially creates the power to control the populace via their health...then I doubt we will ever be able to communicate.

Words have meanings. Learn them, use them...if you ever want to be able to actually communicate.

Damian, Wyoming,

I have another thought,

Why are you so against public sponsored heath care when you are obviously for:

Socialized fire protection, socialized Police protection, socialized highway system, socialized Coast Guard, socialized Border Patrol, socialized prisons, socialized Military......

All these Government programs are for the mutual protection of our citizens. What makes mutual protection from health problems so different.

 

[Roark_John]

Race-baiting? Really?

Ok...well the reason why the blacks were making a big deal about the whole Civil Rights thing is because they felt they were being dealt with unfairly...because of, wait for it...their skin color! That would mean that they are different, unique...even special, no?

And yes in fact, color IS mentioned in the Civil Rights Act. You should read the language as it was written, not as you choose to interpret it.

And why would I care what color or gender someone is? It's how they were made. And to be honest...there is no such thing as equality between anyone...and never can be.

We are not all tall, athletic, intelligent, muscular, healthy, white, etc, etc, etc.

True equality is a fallacy. Only equality under the law is possible.

By specifically pointing out their difference...ie skin color...they are distinguishing themselves from others. Thus making the case that they are treated differently. That would be where the special treatment comes into play. They hope to force bad "Whitey" to give them a place at the table, instead of making their own table or making their own place in the world. They perceive that they are being kept from participating...and so, want to wrest it from the evil hands of "Whitey". That would be stealing or racism, were it enacted BY white people. But since it's coming from the group that instigated the claim, it's not scrutinized as such.

Again...it was not a Million Native American March...or a Million Asian Man March...or even a Million Woman march...it was a Million Man march by BLACK MEN. (Which is hilarious, considering that it was a BLACK WOMAN who provided the springboard for the Civil Rights movement...)

Blacks only included other colors into the participation when they thought it would give weight to what they were doing. Sound anything like what the Dems or Repubs do?? HMMM?

Poted by Wyoming


So now it becomes clear what you do not like about this Act. You do not think that blacks should be equal, who would have thought! Nowhere in the act are blacks mentioned. What part of equal gives anyone SPECIAL TREATMENT?

 

[Jim Craik]

You are a fool, and I do not suffer fools gladly.

If you cannot tell the difference between a service instituted for the purpose of protecting the welfare and safety of the citizenry....and a service instituted to offer free goods at the expense of others hard work, and that potentially creates the power to control the populace via their health...then I doubt we will ever be able to communicate.

Words have meanings. Learn them, use them...if you ever want to be able to actually communicate.

Posted by Wyoming

When was the last time anyone paid for help from the fire department, the police department.....

 

[Roark_John]

Seriously? It's called TAXES and FINES.

Where do you come from? Don't say Earth, or even America...because if you did, you would know what I'm saying.

Posted by Wyoming

When was the last time anyone paid for help from the fire department, the police department.....

 

[Jim Craik]

Yes it is call taxes, that is what an organised society does, it collects taxes and then provide services to protect the well being of the citizens, it is the most efficient way.

When everyone chips in (pays taxes) these services become much cheaper, well organized and efficient. If every neighborhood had to set up their own fire protection, hire security guards pave their own roads and provide troops to protect from foreign countries.... the cost would be prohibitive.

Just as health care costs are becoming prohibitive. Why not have everyone chip in to make health care cheaper, well organised and efficient.

 

[Roark_John]

Because it's not MY responsibility to take care of YOU. It's MY responsibility to provide for MYSELF and MINE.

Why should I pay for your triple bypass because you lived a sedentary life and refused to eat healthy?

Why should I pay for your rehabilitation because you chose to use drugs and become addicted?

Why should I pay for your Botox treatments, tummy tucks and implants because you didn't like the way your body looked?

Yes it is call taxes, that is what an organised society does, it collects taxes and then provide services to protect the well being of the citizens, it is the most efficient way.

When everyone chips in (pays taxes) these services become much cheaper, well organized and efficient. If every neighborhood had to set up theor own fire protection, hire security guards pave their own roads and provide troops to protect from foreign countries.... the cost would be prohibitive.

Just as health care costs are becoming prohibitive. Why not have everyone chip in to make health care cheaper, well organised and efficient.

 

[Roark_John]

That you consider Government and Efficient to be in the same category or even mutually exclusive is laughable.

ANYTHING done on a large scale is LESS efficient, you just get bigger results.

You will NEVER drive down the cost of healthcare by passing MORE taxes. After all, if it made it cheaper, why would you need MORE money?

Healthcare is a BUSINESS. Companies and individuals are in it to make a PROFIT. Only when you abolish profits, will you reduce the COST of healthcare.

Does any of this make ANY sense to you? Or are you just going to keep posting inanities pushing your point of view?

Yes it is call taxes, that is what an organised society does, it collects taxes and then provide services to protect the well being of the citizens, it is the most efficient way.

When everyone chips in (pays taxes) these services become much cheaper, well organized and efficient. If every neighborhood had to set up theor own fire protection, hire security guards pave their own roads and provide troops to protect from foreign countries.... the cost would be prohibitive.

Just as health care costs are becoming prohibitive. Why not have everyone chip in to make health care cheaper, well organised and efficient.

 

[Jim Craik]

So your ok with paying for my Fire dept, Police dept, Border Patrol, Coast Guard, Military and prisons?

So you should not pay for extinguishing your neighbors kitchen fire?

Because it's not MY responsibility to take care of YOU. It's MY responsibility to provide for MYSELF and MINE.

I'd be willing to bet that I paid a lot more taxes than you, was that my responsibility? Yes because we live in an organized society and that how its done.

As for the rest of those comments, I though we were having a discussion, I'm tired of your racism, name calling, and odd personal attacks, have a nice day.

But I would like you to pay for my botox.

 

[Roark_John]

I already DO pay for extinguishing my neighbors kitchen fire. Again...taxes, Fire Department...remember? If his house burns down it could take mine with it. Thus the concept of common welfare of the citizenry. Catching on yet?

Yes you probably have paid more taxes than I have. As has almost anybody who has been paying taxes longer than the last 15 years and makes more than I do...

Does this mean that I shouldn't have served in the military to provide for YOUR protection and freedom? Because I haven't paid enough in taxes to be worthy of doing so? What kind of logic do you use?

Wow...racist? Really? How did you get that exactly?

My "personal" attacks are odd...but yours are somehow appropriate?

So your ok with paying for my Fire dept, Police dept, Border Patrol, Coast Guard, Military and prisons?

So you should not pay for extinguishing your neighbors kitchen fire?



I'd be willing to bet that I paid a lot more taxes than you, was that my responsibility? Yes because we live in an organized society and that how its done.

As for the rest of those comments, I though we were having a discussion, I'm tired of your racism, name calling, and odd personal attacks, have a nice day.

But I would like you to pay for my botox.

 

[Doug S.]

I hate to interupt your fun, guys, but thought I ought to respond to Jim's statement:

Sure this system can use some tweaks from time to time and needs some now, but to throw out the by far most successful government in the history of the world because you disagree with the current administration, my man, that is one of the few scenarios were the jack boots may come.

I agree that the U.S.A. has had the most successful governent in the history of the world, but world history also proves that once a "society" gains dominance, the end is just around the corner. We here in the U.S.A. patted ourselves on the back when it appeared communism was falling into a heap along with the Berlin wall, but the Russians have overcome their "troubles" and have emerged quite strong.....and please, don't forget the Chinese, who have managed to figure out how to exploit their huge population and environmental resources to rapidly become our creditors rather than our debtors.

I'm all in favor of the U.S.A. continuing our position as "...by far the most successful government in the history of the world" and believe strongly in the Civil Rights Act--it is a great piece of social literature and if we can only manage to realize its true promise we may be able to scratch and claw our way back to being "...by far the most successful government in the history or the world". Unfortunately, IMHO, there are other governments (whether socialist or communist or capitalist) who have discovered the power in oppression via those jack boots you mentioned.

My issue isn't with the current regime, it's with politicians in general. I am apalled by the partisan paralysis we have in the legislative branch. I can't possibly be convinced that everything the Democrats want to enact will be terrible for the constituents that every Republican represents, and vice versa. I want politicians who want what is the best for America, not for themselves or for the leaders of their party who want to "....win at all costs" (that was Tom Delay's motto). For me, universal health care was a positive action, not b/c the Democrats got what they wanted, but b/c IMHO it will be a good thing for Americans in general. The bailouts of the banks (and to a lesser degree the bailouts of Chrysler and GM) perhaps not so much, although your point about the number of jobs that would have gone overseas is well taken. I just want the politicians to forget their own personal agendas and party alignments and think about what is best for our country, and I can't imagine that happening with our current politicians. I am almost of the mind to support a "...vote the incumbents ALL out" movement, perhaps if we can do that we can convince politicians in general that they have had the wrong interests at heart, I don't know.

As for armed insurrection (OVERTHROW), I'm not there yet.......yet. We'll see........but I'm losing hope rapidly as the gridlock in Washington seems to continue unabated while the rest of the world watches as America demonstrates by its actions day after day that we may no longer be "...by far the most successful government in the history of the world".

A sad state of affairs, indeed.......:thumbsdown:

Doug

 

[Jim Craik]

Doug,

I think your reply was well thought out and I agree with most of what you said.

But Doug, I always think of you as a classy guy, who else can quote from "My Back Pages". I'm not sure if you really want to roll around in the mud with us, it seems pointless.

Anyway, its always good to hear from you, stay well!