So sad.
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Howard Jones
Supporter
Cor. I respectfully presented my opinion that I'm not only sad but I'm pissed off about what happened. What you did was censor it. Now I agree that as moderator you can do whatever you want to. After all it's not my forum. But if you intend to limit revenant content of a persons respond to a given thread based on what you think is what we should be saying then..............well...............That is way we fought a revolution on this side of the pond........... Think about that.
Pete McCluskey.
Lifetime Supporter
As an Australian living where guns are banned I don't sleep any easier knowing that those with no respect for the law can easily get guns, as evidenced by the Lindt cafe shootings and the Police worker shooting in Melbourne. I would feel a lot safer if I was able to be armed.
Leaving it to the cops is exactly what happened in Paris (both times) and California. The authorities responded as quickly as possible and did a great job.
Hundreds died.
Now imagine if somebody 'equipped to deal with it' was right there when these incidents started? Yes, it might get messy, and innocent people might get hurt or killed.
But the total number of casualties would likely be a fraction of what we've seen. The incidents would have ended almost before they started, and long before the authorities showed up.
It is simply impossible to argue that in episodes like we have seen, the presence of armed resistance to the terrorists would have made matters worse.
A lesson long ago forgotten is that an armed society is a polite society...
Don't you find it interesting that even though there are eleventy zillion guns in this country, you NEVER hear of one of these mass shootings where somebody fought back, even an unarmed person?
The simple reason is that when people fight back (even if they are unarmed, like the three Americans on the train in Paris) mass shootings DON'T happen. Bad guys with guns are routinely confronted and defeated by good guys with guns--it's a daily occurrence. But such things rarely get more than passing publicity and the story is always treated as a minor, local news item.
The only things that makes international headlines are episodes where sheep are slaughtered en masse.
Hypocrisy confession: I never carry a gun myself. I should, but I don't. But I appreciate those who do so for the right reasons...and regardless, I would like to think I'm the kind of person who would run towards the gunfire in the hopes of doing something about it, and not away from it. There's no way to know until it happens, and I hope it never happens....
I would sooner see the world rid of gun wielding criminals and terrorist`s. Who would need or want a gun then? The solution is build hundreds of jails and bang these fuckers up for life, over time the message would be become very clear for those that choose this lifestyle. I reckon you could shut down most jails in a hundred years time if this approach was adopted.
Bob
Bob
Pat
Supporter
Why is this now a political "gun issue"?
In their San Bernadino attack Mr. and Mrs. Farook also left behind an explosive device - rigged up to a child's remote-controlled car. The device consisted of three connected pipe bombs with a remote control. Fortunately, it did not go off. At their home a police search found 12 pipe bombs and tools that could be used to construct IEDs. The cache included Al Qaeda bomb making instructions.
The government is "unclear" as to what their motives may have been suggesting the massacre was workplace violence triggered by the holiday party hosted by Mr. Farook's employer. Perhaps someone inadvertently wished him "Merry Christmas" or he was not pleased with his Secret Santa gift.
As a reminder, Chechen brothers Dzhokhar Tsarnaev and Tamerlan Tsarnaev used two pressure cooker bombs to kill 5 and injure 280 more in the Boston Marathon bombing.
In June, Usaama Rahim, a 26-year-old man, who had been under 24-hour terrorist surveillance by the U.S. Joint Terrorism Task Force was shot and killed in Boston when he lunged toward police with a knife.
In 2013 a British soldier was hacked to death with a machete-style knife in the Woolwich district in the southeast of London. Michael Adebolajo, 29, and Michael Adebowale, 22, were convicted of the crime. At their sentencing the judged told them "You each converted to Islam some years ago. Thereafter you were radicalized and each became an extremist...".
Last October, a Quebec terrorist killed one Canadian soldier and injured a second with his car during a rampage in Montreal. The perpetrator, Mr. Rouleau, 25, was a radicalized Muslim who may have acted alone but had links to other suspected fundamentalists, according to authorities.
So making this a political anti-gun rant makes as much sense and making it an anti automobile, remote control toy and knife argument and obfuscates the root cause of these and the future attacks that will follow.
In their San Bernadino attack Mr. and Mrs. Farook also left behind an explosive device - rigged up to a child's remote-controlled car. The device consisted of three connected pipe bombs with a remote control. Fortunately, it did not go off. At their home a police search found 12 pipe bombs and tools that could be used to construct IEDs. The cache included Al Qaeda bomb making instructions.
The government is "unclear" as to what their motives may have been suggesting the massacre was workplace violence triggered by the holiday party hosted by Mr. Farook's employer. Perhaps someone inadvertently wished him "Merry Christmas" or he was not pleased with his Secret Santa gift.
As a reminder, Chechen brothers Dzhokhar Tsarnaev and Tamerlan Tsarnaev used two pressure cooker bombs to kill 5 and injure 280 more in the Boston Marathon bombing.
In June, Usaama Rahim, a 26-year-old man, who had been under 24-hour terrorist surveillance by the U.S. Joint Terrorism Task Force was shot and killed in Boston when he lunged toward police with a knife.
In 2013 a British soldier was hacked to death with a machete-style knife in the Woolwich district in the southeast of London. Michael Adebolajo, 29, and Michael Adebowale, 22, were convicted of the crime. At their sentencing the judged told them "You each converted to Islam some years ago. Thereafter you were radicalized and each became an extremist...".
Last October, a Quebec terrorist killed one Canadian soldier and injured a second with his car during a rampage in Montreal. The perpetrator, Mr. Rouleau, 25, was a radicalized Muslim who may have acted alone but had links to other suspected fundamentalists, according to authorities.
So making this a political anti-gun rant makes as much sense and making it an anti automobile, remote control toy and knife argument and obfuscates the root cause of these and the future attacks that will follow.
To confirm/illustrate/prove the validity of the aforesaid, I offer/submit the following:
GUN WATCH: Mass Killings Stopped by Armed Citizens
My bet is no Yankee here has ever even heard about any of the above incidents. (Foreigners likely wouldn't have either for obvious reasons.)
A rhetorical question for y'all: If you find yourself confronted by an armed perp in any self-defense situation - in public or in private, what would you rather have in your hand...a phone or a gun (assuming you know how to use the latter)...and which do you suppose would likely provide the best odds for your survival at that exact moment in time?
'Answer is painfully obvious, innit...at least it should be. (And polly-ticks has absa-tootly nuthun whut-so-evaaah to do with it. Logic does. :smug
:chug:
It morphed into an anti-gun rant because 'someone' :shifty: opined that legally armed citizens should be able to 'carry' anywhere, which would enable them to immediately confront terrorists who attempt mass shootings (or whatever else) 'on-the-spot'...thereby hopefully preventing/reducing the number of innocent people killed/wounded.
The reason that is/was considered by some to be a "political" statement escapes me.
Jeff Young
GT40s Supporter
And, off the deep end we go. Again.
Jeff Young
GT40s Supporter
Here's where the issue lies. You all are so convinced that more guns, and more people opening fire in a mass shooting situation is the answer, you see it as "common sense" and not a political issue related to how society should structure the availability and use of guns.
I'm frankly just as scared of someone like Larry opening fire without training or awareness and with the unshakeble belief that he knows what he is doing in a mass shooting situation as I am of the mass shooter. This has nothing to do with weakness or not wanting to defend myself. And because I, and a lot of others, want laws to prevent some of that, yes, it is a political issue.
this thread is headed in the wrong direction and should be locked, now, per the new set of forum rules.
I'm frankly just as scared of someone like Larry opening fire without training or awareness and with the unshakeble belief that he knows what he is doing in a mass shooting situation as I am of the mass shooter. This has nothing to do with weakness or not wanting to defend myself. And because I, and a lot of others, want laws to prevent some of that, yes, it is a political issue.
this thread is headed in the wrong direction and should be locked, now, per the new set of forum rules.
Jeff Young
GT40s Supporter
The certainity with which you say that is scary. You have absolutely no idea how a bunch of "armed citizens" opening fire in a theater or a mall or a work place will play out, and to assume it will always work out for the best is insane.
Pat
Supporter
We know how it played out in Paris, San Bernandino and Ft Hood.
So make it political about guns, ignore radical Islam and it's supporters. Get in your say then ask for a "lockdown". "...to assume it will always work out for the best is insane."
There's your 'theory' and then there's 'reality'. No matter HOW "society structures the availability and use of guns" there will ALWAYS BE those who pay no attention to same.
Did you even bother to view the link I posted elsewhere above...you know...the one containing reports of common folk putting a stop to carnage by "opening fire"?
...'assuming facts not in evidence again, councilor. I've noticed you do that a lot.
Translation: My theories/views are being successfully opposed/challenged by the use of documented facts. I want an end put to it.
Okay, okay...I'm shuttin' up now, Keith.
Well said.
When I was a teenager in the 50s, a women was beaten, brutally raped, and murdered in Ney York city while people looked on. Nobody did a thing. I was from a very small town (population under 1000) in CT. I was naïve to city life, but remember being shocked that with all those people looking on, that no one did anything to help. Would you rather be cowering under a desk or have an option to help? No hero crap, just help.
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Pat
Supporter
While both federal and state officials consider what may have motivated the massacre
there's this:
San Bernardino shooting tied to ISIS - CNN.com
Apparently Mrs. Farook had some strong political views.
San Bernardino shooting suspect traveled to Saudi Arabia, was married, appeared to be living 'American Dream,' co-workers say - LA Times
With respect Randy, there are issues which should be able to be discussed and one of them is the very large elephant in all our rooms. I do not see any reason to curtail the debate as long as it is respectful to our community and complements the site.
Thus far we're doing OK. Ron entrusted me with the Paddock and I think, to a degree, I have a handle on it. We need to learn from each other across the world to defeat this evil. One thing is certain, as Paddock moderator I will not permit anything that I consider damages the site's reputation or normal usage.
I have been having chemo today so I have not been around for awhile, but I'm now back on the case and taking names!
So what you are saying is that given the choice between being caught in a situation where murderous terrorists are being engaged by upstanding citizens, or murderous terrorists are just slaughtering everybody in sight, including you, you would choose the latter? :stunned:
I'm interested in hearing your theory of how murderous terrorists going unchecked on a shooting rampage is the preferable condition among the two choices. Do tell....
David Morton
Lifetime Supporter
Who really cares any more. You Americans live with these mass shootings almost, it seems, daily. As far as geographic locations, you all really live in the wild wild west. I think you all know how to sort it out but you fall asleep as soon as people start talking sense. This latest horror may have been carried out by an embedded terrorist unit but what the hell, I don't think any of you west of 20 West really care.
As an example, this is what happened to me in Chigago.
I was walking back to my hotel in Chicago - the distance was from the Watertower to the first hotel on Michigan going away from the CBD (I can't remember the name) and almost reached the hotel when gunfire started behind me. The concierge shouted at me to run as fast as I could into the hotel. Two killed only about 50 yds behind me. It never even made the news ( That was in 1991 ) Thats how you guys are totally oblivious to weapons. Don't get me wrong - I love it when you all join in a really good and valid fire fight like the one brewing in Syria and I wish I was back in the R.A.F. to join in.
But - on the streets of your towns - how can you let this sort of shit continue.
How sad ? Yes. What will you do. Absolutely nothing. I guarantee there will be another 355 or more such incidents in 2016. So I finish as I started. Who really cares.......
As an example, this is what happened to me in Chigago.
I was walking back to my hotel in Chicago - the distance was from the Watertower to the first hotel on Michigan going away from the CBD (I can't remember the name) and almost reached the hotel when gunfire started behind me. The concierge shouted at me to run as fast as I could into the hotel. Two killed only about 50 yds behind me. It never even made the news ( That was in 1991 ) Thats how you guys are totally oblivious to weapons. Don't get me wrong - I love it when you all join in a really good and valid fire fight like the one brewing in Syria and I wish I was back in the R.A.F. to join in.
But - on the streets of your towns - how can you let this sort of shit continue.
How sad ? Yes. What will you do. Absolutely nothing. I guarantee there will be another 355 or more such incidents in 2016. So I finish as I started. Who really cares.......
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