David Morton
Lifetime Supporter
Volcanic Cloud?
- Thread starter IanAnderson
- Start date
David Morton
Lifetime Supporter
Cloudless and vapour trail-less and most important around here, Noisless.
I have to visit India again on the 26th, for 3 wks this time (50 servers and a call centre to install, but don't panic its for domestic use only unless you have a Indian Mobile phone!!!).
Know i have been asking for 2 weeks, 'have you got everything ready?' and if you have ever worked with the sub-continent you will know there is NEVER a problem!!! and if something does go wrong, then stay up all night to fix it by throwing people at it.....last time my work mate went, spent first 10 days in the hotel pool an bar waiting for custome to release the equipment that we were promised was on site for teh 3 weeks previous!!!!.
rant over, but if anyone has any pull with the volcano gods, could you let them kno that i think most people don't mind the delay (unless you own shares in airline industry, air freight companies or fresh produce that needs shipping by air, bananas spring to to mind).
So when will the shortage o fresh fruit and veg from overseas start to push prices up and a shopping frenzy?? actually it means all this nice weather and we are forced to have BBQs, all meat no salad!!!!
Perfect
Know i have been asking for 2 weeks, 'have you got everything ready?' and if you have ever worked with the sub-continent you will know there is NEVER a problem!!! and if something does go wrong, then stay up all night to fix it by throwing people at it.....last time my work mate went, spent first 10 days in the hotel pool an bar waiting for custome to release the equipment that we were promised was on site for teh 3 weeks previous!!!!.
rant over, but if anyone has any pull with the volcano gods, could you let them kno that i think most people don't mind the delay (unless you own shares in airline industry, air freight companies or fresh produce that needs shipping by air, bananas spring to to mind).
So when will the shortage o fresh fruit and veg from overseas start to push prices up and a shopping frenzy?? actually it means all this nice weather and we are forced to have BBQs, all meat no salad!!!!
Perfect
As mentioned, the major problem with turbine engines (feel free to join in any time Scott) is firstly abrasion as mentioned. It will eat the compressor and reduce it's efficiency.
Further, the combustion temperature of most turbine engines is over 800 degrees C. This is usually measured at the turbine outlet, often over 700 depending on the engine.
This will melt volcanic ash, which will wind up being deposited further into the engine. What happens next is dependent on the engine design.
It may pass through the engine relatively easily or may be deposited on a turbine section or in the exhaust. Regardless, it's not good for the engine.
The rest of the airframe is subject to the same factors as the compressor section, in particular de-icing equipment and joints in the airframe as well as transparent elements (windows).
Further, the combustion temperature of most turbine engines is over 800 degrees C. This is usually measured at the turbine outlet, often over 700 depending on the engine.
This will melt volcanic ash, which will wind up being deposited further into the engine. What happens next is dependent on the engine design.
It may pass through the engine relatively easily or may be deposited on a turbine section or in the exhaust. Regardless, it's not good for the engine.
The rest of the airframe is subject to the same factors as the compressor section, in particular de-icing equipment and joints in the airframe as well as transparent elements (windows).
Paul, i saw that on the news as well and key points for me that i remember are
it was a turbo prop plane, dornier i think, flight radar did not pick up the dust cloud but scientific instruments did. they never flew too close and even skirting around, they hit the odd problem
Research aircraft returns to volcanic ash plume
it was a turbo prop plane, dornier i think, flight radar did not pick up the dust cloud but scientific instruments did. they never flew too close and even skirting around, they hit the odd problem
Research aircraft returns to volcanic ash plume
David Morton
Lifetime Supporter
<TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD class=form><TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top width="87%"><TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD class=title></TD><TD class=title width="100%">This is copied from the BA.com website. It is updated daily,
some times twice a day.
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Disruption due to volcanic activity in Iceland
</TD></TR><TR><TD>
</TD></TR><TR><TD class=subtitle></TD><TD class=subtitle>Summary</TD></TR><TR><TD class=textcell></TD><TD id=desc class=textcell>
Following further information from the Met Office about the path of the volcanic ash affecting UK airspace and airlines, there will continue to be severe disruption to our schedule.
All British Airways flights to and from London airports are cancelled on Sunday 18 and Monday 19 April.
Please do not go to the airport if your flight is cancelled, check the status of your flight. Check-in on ba.com is currently suspended.
If your flight is operated by another airline, please contact the operating carrier for information. We regret that we are unable to currently display accurate information for other carriers.
You are advised to check the status of your flight before leaving for the airport.
> Check the status of your flight
We are keeping our flying schedule under constant review and will aim to give you as much notice as possible once we receive more information from NATS.
</TD></TR><TR><TD>
</TD></TR><TR><TD class=subtitle></TD><TD class=subtitle>More information</TD></TR><TR><TD class=textcell></TD><TD id=soln class=textcell>If you are booked to travel on a cancelled flight you can choose one of the options set out immediately below.
If you wish to travel to your original destination, you may re-book on another British Airways or BA franchise flight at your convenience, subject to availability.
The refund will be credited to the original form of payment.
How do I change or cancel and refund my booking ?
If you made your booking with a travel agent you should contact them directly to make any changes.
If you made your booking on ba.com or through a BA call centre you may be able to change your booking online using Manage My Booking.
> Manage My Booking
Due to the exceptionally high level of calls to our call centres you are encouraged to try and change your booking yourself online before calling us. Please note that we cannot service change requests sent to us via email.
You can call us -
In the UK: 0800 727 800
In the US: 1 800 247 9297 (1 800 AIRWAYS)
> Contact details for other British Airways offices
We apologise for any delay in handling your queries in our call centres and regret the inconvenience caused by these circumstances out of our control. We have extended our call centre opening hours to manage the extra call volumes.
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some times twice a day.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disruption due to volcanic activity in Iceland
</TD></TR><TR><TD>
Last updated: 09:45 UK time 18 April 2010
Following further information from the Met Office about the path of the volcanic ash affecting UK airspace and airlines, there will continue to be severe disruption to our schedule.
All British Airways flights to and from London airports are cancelled on Sunday 18 and Monday 19 April.
Please do not go to the airport if your flight is cancelled, check the status of your flight. Check-in on ba.com is currently suspended.
If your flight is operated by another airline, please contact the operating carrier for information. We regret that we are unable to currently display accurate information for other carriers.
You are advised to check the status of your flight before leaving for the airport.
> Check the status of your flight
We are keeping our flying schedule under constant review and will aim to give you as much notice as possible once we receive more information from NATS.
</TD></TR><TR><TD>
If you wish to travel to your original destination, you may re-book on another British Airways or BA franchise flight at your convenience, subject to availability.
- The change in booking must take place no later than three weeks after the original flight.
- Travel must be completed within ticket validity or within three months from the original flight, whichever is longer.
- Other flights in the same booking, if applicable, can be re-booked at the same time, and no extra fare is payable.
- The change in booking must take place no later than three weeks after the original flight.
- The alternative destination must be in the same country or a destination close by in a neighbouring country e.g. Lyon and Geneva.
- Onward travel from the alternative destination is at the customers own expense.
The refund will be credited to the original form of payment.
How do I change or cancel and refund my booking ?
If you made your booking with a travel agent you should contact them directly to make any changes.
If you made your booking on ba.com or through a BA call centre you may be able to change your booking online using Manage My Booking.
> Manage My Booking
Due to the exceptionally high level of calls to our call centres you are encouraged to try and change your booking yourself online before calling us. Please note that we cannot service change requests sent to us via email.
You can call us -
In the UK: 0800 727 800
In the US: 1 800 247 9297 (1 800 AIRWAYS)
> Contact details for other British Airways offices
We apologise for any delay in handling your queries in our call centres and regret the inconvenience caused by these circumstances out of our control. We have extended our call centre opening hours to manage the extra call volumes.
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Dave, will the cloud just disperse or get brought down by rain and or changes in wind strength etc.
can we hope that other ATC agencies will be as diligent as ours?
the winds the cloud are caught in, are they the prevailing currents up there are are they likely to change direction?
i really could do with not flying to India!!!!!
can we hope that other ATC agencies will be as diligent as ours?
the winds the cloud are caught in, are they the prevailing currents up there are are they likely to change direction?
i really could do with not flying to India!!!!!
David Morton
Lifetime Supporter
I can only speak about Mount Pinatubo in the Philipines which erupted in 1971.
The dust remained at high level in the Southern Hemispere for 6 months +. Aeroplanes were being damaged by dust abrasion all the time and the leading edges were quite bad - but air traffic continued unabated. The sunsets were always red as a result of the red dust (which makes me laugh a bit because some scientists said this volcano would cause the same - Iceland is a dark gray dust - period- and I think we will be unlikely to see red sunsets unless the sun shines on the underneath of high level clouds as it sets.
Will the ATC authorities be as diligent as the UK? I think we are deluding ourselves that these people are honourable. Like anybody they are easily corrupted with all sorts of temptations.
Lastly once this dust is in the upper atmosphere it will circulate in the N Hemisphere
for many months.
Flight restrictions ? This could go on for quite a while yet. Maybe until someone weakens by lack of income.
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Mount Pinatubo.
The dust remained at high level in the Southern Hemispere for 6 months +. Aeroplanes were being damaged by dust abrasion all the time and the leading edges were quite bad - but air traffic continued unabated. The sunsets were always red as a result of the red dust (which makes me laugh a bit because some scientists said this volcano would cause the same - Iceland is a dark gray dust - period- and I think we will be unlikely to see red sunsets unless the sun shines on the underneath of high level clouds as it sets.
Will the ATC authorities be as diligent as the UK? I think we are deluding ourselves that these people are honourable. Like anybody they are easily corrupted with all sorts of temptations.
Lastly once this dust is in the upper atmosphere it will circulate in the N Hemisphere
for many months.
Flight restrictions ? This could go on for quite a while yet. Maybe until someone weakens by lack of income.
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Mount Pinatubo.
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David,
Is the restriction commercial airlines only or all aircraft?
To be honest I have not really kept up with the story, one of my aircraft is torn apart in inspection and last week its APU shit a compressor seal and blew Mobil 254 through the aircon system, joy!
S
Is the restriction commercial airlines only or all aircraft?
To be honest I have not really kept up with the story, one of my aircraft is torn apart in inspection and last week its APU shit a compressor seal and blew Mobil 254 through the aircon system, joy!
S
Ron Earp
Admin
You guys might well see vivid red sunsets depending on the particle size of the dust. The red color will come not from the color of the dust itself, but instead from light scattering. As you probably know the blue color of the sky is from light scattering but scattering of a different type, Rayleigh scattering which is from molecules in the atmosphere that are much smaller than the wavelengh of light (visible light is about 400-750nm).
Larger particles, like volcanic dust, also scatter light (and absorb it) but this scattering effect is modeled differently and is called Mie scattering. Mie scattering can have an effect on visible scattered wavelengths, generally long wavelenths up in the red portion of the visible spectrum, as well as much longer non-visible wavelenghts of EM.
Yes, I'm nerding out. My company, BMG LABTECH, builds nephelometers, an instrument designed to measure light scattering.
As with everyone else, I wonder how long the flights will be cancelled. Months? I'm planning a vacation to England in June and have some business travel to Europe before that in May. Some of my work collegues are scheduled to travel to Germany next weekend, and right now I have one stranded in Philly awaiting a flight back to Frankfurt.
David Morton
Lifetime Supporter
Ron,
Wow, - a fantastic explanation Ron. Thank you.
I think it (normal flying) will happen again soon - as soon as someone /some airiline (i) as the clout to stand up to the Aviation Authoities and (ii) can carry their insurance company along with them in such an action. If the insurance companies decline however, the aeroplanes cannot fly. The Cerificate of Insurance is a mandatory document - normally carried in a frame behind the Cockpit (flight deck) door and that has to be in force and carried on every Public Transport and International flight.
Scott,
I'm sure this is just Public Transport and not private. But again - I would suggest checking the area of operation and Insurance.
Wow, - a fantastic explanation Ron. Thank you.
I think it (normal flying) will happen again soon - as soon as someone /some airiline (i) as the clout to stand up to the Aviation Authoities and (ii) can carry their insurance company along with them in such an action. If the insurance companies decline however, the aeroplanes cannot fly. The Cerificate of Insurance is a mandatory document - normally carried in a frame behind the Cockpit (flight deck) door and that has to be in force and carried on every Public Transport and International flight.
Scott,
I'm sure this is just Public Transport and not private. But again - I would suggest checking the area of operation and Insurance.
Ron&Dave,
If this keeps up you'll have to sign on as deckhand on some freighter to get to Europe economicly. The QEII is a bit pricy.
Dave
If this keeps up you'll have to sign on as deckhand on some freighter to get to Europe economicly. The QEII is a bit pricy.
Dave
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Ron Earp
Admin
I was just thinking that this morning on my way to the home improvement store. I wonder how long a crossingwould take?
Ron,
I think it's about two weeks on the QEII. Oil tanker or cargo-container ship thirty to fourty-five days. It all depends on how much fuel they wish to burn,weather and currents.
Dave
PS- I know the St. Laurence is open they had a Russian Freighter in our port dropping off a load of steel last week. They give the first captain a black top hat that comes through that enters the Great Lakes.
http://www.princess.com/learn/destinations/europe/cruises/ebn.jsp
I think it's about two weeks on the QEII. Oil tanker or cargo-container ship thirty to fourty-five days. It all depends on how much fuel they wish to burn,weather and currents.
Dave
PS- I know the St. Laurence is open they had a Russian Freighter in our port dropping off a load of steel last week. They give the first captain a black top hat that comes through that enters the Great Lakes.
http://www.princess.com/learn/destinations/europe/cruises/ebn.jsp
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Ron,
Here's an interesting site. On some of these ships you can even pack a container take your own car.
Dave
Freighter Travel with The Cruise People Ltd [Freighter Cruises]
Here's an interesting site. On some of these ships you can even pack a container take your own car.
Dave
Freighter Travel with The Cruise People Ltd [Freighter Cruises]
I think the QEII would take a little longer than that seeing as how she is in Raghead Land and doesn't have any engines now. If you meant the QMII then New York to Southampton could be done in under 4 days with a maximum speed of 30 knots and a service speed of 26 knots. It takes 6 days on her regular crossing for fuel savings and of course, milking the on - board market.
Having said that, you can now buy a ticket for QMII from NYC to Southampton for $1,350 USD which compares very favourably with Club Class on a hairy plane. You might find yourself rowing for that price though and the bugger is, the Captain likes to waterski half way across...
David Morton
Lifetime Supporter
I'll go for a Deck 10 POSH outer cabin on a round trip. 14 days of breakfast in bed with the daily papers .....
Years ago, there was a "Captains Option" on smaller freighters. This allowed the Captain of the vessel to take on passengers at his choosing. Usually not more than 6 persons and the accomodations were poor, dined with crew, etc. Very inexpensive though, about $600.00 one way to most European ports and to Southhampton I believe. I don't know if this is method remains in use.
Ron Earp
Admin
Travel by Freighter
Freighter Travel - How to Travel by Freighter Boat - Freighter Travel
Has some links there. I bet some bad shit can happen to you depending on where you end up....
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Freighter Travel - How to Travel by Freighter Boat - Freighter Travel
Has some links there. I bet some bad shit can happen to you depending on where you end up....
http://studenttravel.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=studenttravel&cdn=travel&tm=13&gps=124_10_1276_615&f=00&tt=12&bt=0&bts=0&st=23&zu=http%3A//www.geocities.com/freighterman.geo/fares.html
