Assembling a Monocoque
- Thread starter bune
- Start date
I agree with you, good point.... but it still limit's his market with regard to an HTP.
Ive been looking at various Chassis to purchase, but would very much like an HTP. The only one ive found so far that complies with the HTP and thats the Gelscoe production... great, but exspensive.
K.
Ive been looking at various Chassis to purchase, but would very much like an HTP. The only one ive found so far that complies with the HTP and thats the Gelscoe production... great, but exspensive.
K.
Rune
Supporter
Kojac, please do Your comment on others cars somewhere else. Let comment on this page be for my monocoque ,by the way ,much of the metal on my chassis is high quality Sweedish steel that is ment to last forever.
And all monocoques that are in the market now world wide are expensive ,that's the way it is.
Rune
And all monocoques that are in the market now world wide are expensive ,that's the way it is.
Rune
Jim Rosenthal
Supporter
Steel is steel. I can't imagine they'd pick nits about whether it's galvanized or not. In fact, when the high-end GT40 restorers fabricate new panels for rusty original GT40 chassis, they use galvanized steel panels and then paint them. No one can tell the difference.
I think the GOX chassis look fantastic. If one had been available ten years ago when I began all this, I'd have just bought one and had it shipped over here, instead of trying to have one built from scratch. Mind you, I like what I have, but it would have been a hell of a lot easier and I'd have thousands of miles on the car by now, wouldn't I.
I think the GOX chassis look fantastic. If one had been available ten years ago when I began all this, I'd have just bought one and had it shipped over here, instead of trying to have one built from scratch. Mind you, I like what I have, but it would have been a hell of a lot easier and I'd have thousands of miles on the car by now, wouldn't I.
Hi.
The top end builders as you put it, dont use Galvanized steel, well I can only comment on the one I have seen in person, which is the Gelscoe Chassis.
I am in the market for a correct Chassis and have been looking in great detail into all this.
Gelscoe get the local Mill to roll the sheet from original type mild steel to English thickness, as you can only get metric sheet now.
The UK FIA, when they inspect the Cars, check not only the material and thicknes but also the amounts of Spot Welds to check they are the same as the original drawings.... very anal I know, just depends if you want it right or wrong.
K.
The top end builders as you put it, dont use Galvanized steel, well I can only comment on the one I have seen in person, which is the Gelscoe Chassis.
I am in the market for a correct Chassis and have been looking in great detail into all this.
Gelscoe get the local Mill to roll the sheet from original type mild steel to English thickness, as you can only get metric sheet now.
The UK FIA, when they inspect the Cars, check not only the material and thicknes but also the amounts of Spot Welds to check they are the same as the original drawings.... very anal I know, just depends if you want it right or wrong.
K.
Jim Rosenthal
Supporter
I spent quite a lot for a chassis made to original drawings, but I have no idea about whether the spot welds are in all the right places. I don't like your use of the term "wrong". It's hard to imagine that all the welds are in the same places in all the original monocoques, and many of them were rewelded after race damage and some were rebuilt using new panels or original replacement panels. There are very few GT40s running around with an entirely original chassis- most of them have been repaired at some point because of rust over the years, race damage, etc.
We've had various discussions on points similar to this over the years and I find them frustrating and difficult. My car, for example, was made in the last ten years and isn't a 1960s car at all, yet it carries a 1000-series serial number given to it by Safir GT40, Ltd. Is mine more or less original than a Gelscoe car which is more faithful to the original build, but doesn't have a GT40 serial number at all? You tell me. I'll let you know whether I agree with you or not.
I've spent years on this forum, and I think that put-downs of each others' tastes don't have a place here. We are supposed to have in common a love for these cars and the tradition they have become- it isn't a race to see who can figure out how many spot welds are in each piece of the car, and to dismiss someone else's efforts because they don't know things of that type. Or because they are making their car of the "wrong" material. There's such a thing as free speech, yes, but there's also such a thing as manners and civility. If you have to take issue with what someone says, do it in a civil way and be prepared to back up your contentions with actual facts and evidence thereof.
We've had various discussions on points similar to this over the years and I find them frustrating and difficult. My car, for example, was made in the last ten years and isn't a 1960s car at all, yet it carries a 1000-series serial number given to it by Safir GT40, Ltd. Is mine more or less original than a Gelscoe car which is more faithful to the original build, but doesn't have a GT40 serial number at all? You tell me. I'll let you know whether I agree with you or not.
I've spent years on this forum, and I think that put-downs of each others' tastes don't have a place here. We are supposed to have in common a love for these cars and the tradition they have become- it isn't a race to see who can figure out how many spot welds are in each piece of the car, and to dismiss someone else's efforts because they don't know things of that type. Or because they are making their car of the "wrong" material. There's such a thing as free speech, yes, but there's also such a thing as manners and civility. If you have to take issue with what someone says, do it in a civil way and be prepared to back up your contentions with actual facts and evidence thereof.
So I guess there will be no historic racing in England then, unless every car that has ever been damaged has been repaired with the manufacturer correct steel, could any one here please explain how to identify a car with the incorrect thickness of steel, from the grand stand as it goes past at 170 mph. Some people need to get a life.
Keep up the good work Rune, I for one appreciate the work you are doing, even if the part number police dont
Keep up the good work Rune, I for one appreciate the work you are doing, even if the part number police dont
Guys, to be fair I don't believe Mr K was expressing anything more than an interesting insight as to how the FIA operate as regards issuing an HTP in the UK, which, if correct, seems a necessarily tough act to follow because of the financial implications.
He certainly was not being personally critical about anyone else's stuff only in the context of the FIA HTP as it affected him - be gentle - he's just got here and I would like to hear more of his quest...
He certainly was not being personally critical about anyone else's stuff only in the context of the FIA HTP as it affected him - be gentle - he's just got here and I would like to hear more of his quest...
There may be a particular agenda that Mr Kojac is pushing, maybe there isn't.
Regardless this is not the thread that this line of discussion should continue on so lets get off it and let Bune get on with showing us his fine workmanship.
Personally I am very interested in learning more about the finer details of the original GT40's and would love to have someone with the apparent knowledge of Mr Kojac start up a new thread where we can discuss details such as the number of spot welds, material thicknesses, material grades, bend radii and the list goes on and on.
If the FIA is checking the number of spot welds they must have some very detailed drawings which form part of their homologation package of which should be available for all prospective competitors to access.
Should be a very interesting thread. (To me anyway)
If on the other hand Mr Kojac is not really interested in sharing this information in a netural thread then we can safely asume that his initial posts were infact designed to detract from efforts and achievement of Bune and his associated product.
Lets see where we go from here.
In the mean time lets get out of this one!!
Regardless this is not the thread that this line of discussion should continue on so lets get off it and let Bune get on with showing us his fine workmanship.
Personally I am very interested in learning more about the finer details of the original GT40's and would love to have someone with the apparent knowledge of Mr Kojac start up a new thread where we can discuss details such as the number of spot welds, material thicknesses, material grades, bend radii and the list goes on and on.
If the FIA is checking the number of spot welds they must have some very detailed drawings which form part of their homologation package of which should be available for all prospective competitors to access.
Should be a very interesting thread. (To me anyway)
If on the other hand Mr Kojac is not really interested in sharing this information in a netural thread then we can safely asume that his initial posts were infact designed to detract from efforts and achievement of Bune and his associated product.
Lets see where we go from here.
In the mean time lets get out of this one!!
Rune,
Good job and don't worry about your metal. I hate these guys that post and don't use their names. Maybe in the UK you can't buy steel in gauge thickness anymore but you can here. As for the Historic FIA rulings Mr. Kojac better check with them first. Check with Kelvin Jones to see what they needed to get their Chevron's approved they are far from the original drawings with many changes done over the years. They would not be allowed to race here under SCCA without additional tubing added to the roll hoop. Not in the orignial drawings. This 100% Pure Wool thing bugs me.
Dave
Good job and don't worry about your metal. I hate these guys that post and don't use their names. Maybe in the UK you can't buy steel in gauge thickness anymore but you can here. As for the Historic FIA rulings Mr. Kojac better check with them first. Check with Kelvin Jones to see what they needed to get their Chevron's approved they are far from the original drawings with many changes done over the years. They would not be allowed to race here under SCCA without additional tubing added to the roll hoop. Not in the orignial drawings. This 100% Pure Wool thing bugs me.
Dave
This is our first post so please go easy on us.
Just to confirm the state of play with the English HTP.... When we set out to build a Chassis for our latest project we have to keep the FIA involved from start to finish.
They inspect the Car at regular intervals during build and compare what we have done with the original drawings we have here.
This gets so involved that they not only measure the thickness of the Panel work and check it is of the same material as original but also count the Spot Welds as each weld is shown on the drawings as a Star sign.
Kojac, whoever he is, is infact correct in this respect.
As for the chap whos building the Chassis in Sweden, good luck to him, having now built over 15 Chassis I know the pain barrier he is going through.
We all choose a Car that we feel will meet our needs, some like a Space Frame some like a original Chassis.. if the Cap fits and all that.
Andy.
Just to confirm the state of play with the English HTP.... When we set out to build a Chassis for our latest project we have to keep the FIA involved from start to finish.
They inspect the Car at regular intervals during build and compare what we have done with the original drawings we have here.
This gets so involved that they not only measure the thickness of the Panel work and check it is of the same material as original but also count the Spot Welds as each weld is shown on the drawings as a Star sign.
Kojac, whoever he is, is infact correct in this respect.
As for the chap whos building the Chassis in Sweden, good luck to him, having now built over 15 Chassis I know the pain barrier he is going through.
We all choose a Car that we feel will meet our needs, some like a Space Frame some like a original Chassis.. if the Cap fits and all that.
Andy.
Ron Earp
Admin
GELSCOE MOTORSPORT LTD please have a look at the general forum rules here:
http://www.gt40s.com/forum/introduce-yourself-here/27555-rules-gt40s-com.html
and our Vendor rules here:
http://www.gt40s.com/forum/site-que...onsoring-vendors-how-advertise-gt40s-com.html
We will be more than happy to have you around on the forum but just make sure that you adhere to the rules we have in place. Thank you.
Guys, this is Bune's build thread, not a materials or FIA discussion thread. If you want to do that do it elsewhere.
http://www.gt40s.com/forum/introduce-yourself-here/27555-rules-gt40s-com.html
and our Vendor rules here:
http://www.gt40s.com/forum/site-que...onsoring-vendors-how-advertise-gt40s-com.html
We will be more than happy to have you around on the forum but just make sure that you adhere to the rules we have in place. Thank you.
Guys, this is Bune's build thread, not a materials or FIA discussion thread. If you want to do that do it elsewhere.
Andy / GELSCOE -
Welcome to GT40s... We'd love to have you as a vendor here and we hope that you consider it..
It would also seem that Mr. Kojac is in very close proximity to GELSCOE or at least share the same ISP/Modem in that you have the same IP addresses..
As Ron requested - Let's let Bune get on with his thread and we can take this elsewhere.. Hopefully to a GELSCOE forum!
All - further posts on this thread need to remain on topic please...
Thank you...
Welcome to GT40s... We'd love to have you as a vendor here and we hope that you consider it..
It would also seem that Mr. Kojac is in very close proximity to GELSCOE or at least share the same ISP/Modem in that you have the same IP addresses..
As Ron requested - Let's let Bune get on with his thread and we can take this elsewhere.. Hopefully to a GELSCOE forum!
All - further posts on this thread need to remain on topic please...
Thank you...
Jim Rosenthal
Supporter
Right, and glad to hear from Gelscoe and have them aboard in whatever capacity.
Rune
Supporter
just to asure kojac that I'm on the right track with right stuff . I use the original drawings on every spotwelding I do I even mark them before start spotweld to assure that they are according the original. I can assure You that it is a huge job to figure out whitch sptweld to start with to be able to reach all welding points at the right time. To be able toreach all places for spotwelding , I have accesess to almost 20 portale and stationary spotwelds, and even then some places must be done with MAG. I have seen pictures from different moncoques over some time and the others hav used more MAG welding than the drawings show.But I know how difficult this prosess are and the others have my fully respect for their work.
The sheet material used are exact the same thicknes as the cars on LeMans in the 60's only diff is the quality(used both metric and inches) .
I'm happy to share my monocoque building prosess with all gt40s forum members ,and will do that all the way until I can make a link to You tube on a complete product .
If the FIA people do check that every spotweld is in right distance they must have access to at least 2000 drawings, I'm not sure of that this is correct. but who knows.
Rune
The sheet material used are exact the same thicknes as the cars on LeMans in the 60's only diff is the quality(used both metric and inches) .
I'm happy to share my monocoque building prosess with all gt40s forum members ,and will do that all the way until I can make a link to You tube on a complete product .
If the FIA people do check that every spotweld is in right distance they must have access to at least 2000 drawings, I'm not sure of that this is correct. but who knows.
Rune
Charlie Farley
Supporter
I can't believe the crap im reading. Spot welds in exactly the right place ? Bullshit !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I spoke to ' MR HERITAGE PASSPORT ' himself some 3 years ago.
By the way , he's the in the FIA, MARCUS PYE.
Im told he is THE MAN.
Got straight through to him, no diverting me to assistants.
Had several long phone calls with him.
I can sum up my conversations relating to FIA approval:
1. Build to original dimensions, give and take.
2. Build in spirit of original.
3. Build with safety in mind.
4. Incorporate as many original parts as is practicable, bearing in mind safety.
5. Utilise modern materials where sensible.
Reading previous posts, you'd think he was at best unrealistic and at worse a retard.
I found him to be far from either.
On a seperate note guys, i have been contacted by private message, egging me on to 'diss' Gelscoe's chassis. I smelt the rat and did not bite.
However, Gelscoe, its time to make things right.
Have you finally stopped fitting GTD bodies to your cars after a certain ' GT Guru ' here in the UK visited your factory with me and pointed out the difference between an original body and a GTD ????? I believe there are 24 differences in dimensions.
Sorry if this post upsets you.
PS. Stop hiding behind IP numbers, its soo childish.
I spoke to ' MR HERITAGE PASSPORT ' himself some 3 years ago.
By the way , he's the in the FIA, MARCUS PYE.
Im told he is THE MAN.
Got straight through to him, no diverting me to assistants.
Had several long phone calls with him.
I can sum up my conversations relating to FIA approval:
1. Build to original dimensions, give and take.
2. Build in spirit of original.
3. Build with safety in mind.
4. Incorporate as many original parts as is practicable, bearing in mind safety.
5. Utilise modern materials where sensible.
Reading previous posts, you'd think he was at best unrealistic and at worse a retard.
I found him to be far from either.
On a seperate note guys, i have been contacted by private message, egging me on to 'diss' Gelscoe's chassis. I smelt the rat and did not bite.
However, Gelscoe, its time to make things right.
Have you finally stopped fitting GTD bodies to your cars after a certain ' GT Guru ' here in the UK visited your factory with me and pointed out the difference between an original body and a GTD ????? I believe there are 24 differences in dimensions.
Sorry if this post upsets you.
PS. Stop hiding behind IP numbers, its soo childish.
Last edited:
Similar threads
