Charleston

I'm surprised that given the fact that Roof is a felon, his father isn't in jail for giving him a gun. The family had to know this kid was mentally disturbed.
 

Charlie Farley

Supporter
How long do you guys want this problem to continue ?
It's really, frankly simple.
Possession of ANY firearm is a death sentence, carried out within 7 days.
No crap legal stays. Simple is best, just as in car design.
Do what the Chinese do and send the bill for the bullet used, to the family.
That's ' Good Bhuddist ' sense to me, what goes around comes around.
Until you get out of your sampled loop of ' Rights ' you will be doomed for a downward spiral...it's really that simple, learn new behaviour.
 
I agree with you Charlie, but have learned it's useless discussing this with paranoid gun owners on this forum. Australia benefitted from gun control (despite what Pete thinks).
 

Larry L.

Lifetime Supporter
How long do you guys want this problem to continue ?
It's really, frankly simple.
Possession of ANY firearm is a death sentence, carried out within 7 days.
No crap legal stays. Simple is best, just as in car design.
Do what the Chinese do and send the bill for the bullet used, to the family.
That's ' Good Bhuddist ' sense to me, what goes around comes around.
Until you get out of your sampled loop of ' Rights ' you will be doomed for a downward spiral...it's really that simple, learn new behaviour.

?????????

Uh...I believe I get/understand your point...? IOW, "possession of ANY firearm" IN THE COMMISSION OF A CRIMINAL OFFENSE "is a death sentence, carried out within 7 days" once one is CONVICTED of said criminal offense...correct?

In SPIRIT, I completely agree with that. BUT, unless there's something like an indisputable V-I-D-E-O of the crime submitted in evidence at trial, if there's any r-e-s-o-n-a-b-l-e basis for an appeal, an appeal should be granted.

I don't wanna see anyone FRIED (shot/gassed/hung/injected) unless 'we' are absolutely DEAD SURE (pardon the pun...or not) that the convicted person IS IN FACT, absolutely, positively 100% guilty beyond any reasonable doubt.

Call me wishy-washy...
 
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Pete McCluskey.

Lifetime Supporter
I agree with you Charlie, but have learned it's useless discussing this with paranoid gun owners on this forum. Australia benefitted from gun control (despite what Pete thinks).
Well the number of gun related suicides reduced, I suppose that's a benefit.
But they probably hung themselves or jumped off a tall structure instead.
 

Attachments

Keith

Moderator
?????????



I don't wanna see anyone FRIED (shot/gassed/hung/injected) unless 'we' are absolutely DEAD SURE (pardon the pun...or not) that the convicted person IS IN FACT, absolutely, positively 100% guilty beyond any reasonable doubt.

Call me wishy-washy...
Whhoooaaa there. That sounds decidedly liberal to me... :shocked::shocked::shocked:
 
?????????

Uh...I believe I get/understand your point...? IOW, "possession of ANY firearm" IN THE COMMISSION OF A CRIMINAL OFFENSE "is a death sentence, carried out within 7 days" once one is CONVICTED of said criminal offense...correct?

In SPIRIT, I completely agree with that. BUT, unless there's something like an indisputable V-I-D-E-O of the crime submitted in evidence at trial, if there's any r-e-s-o-n-a-b-l-e basis for an appeal, an appeal should be granted.

I don't wanna see anyone FRIED (shot/gassed/hung/injected) unless 'we' are absolutely DEAD SURE (pardon the pun...or not) that the convicted person IS IN FACT, absolutely, positively 100% guilty beyond any reasonable doubt.

Call me wishy-washy...
So Wishy Washy if the said illegal firearm is not actually on a person maybe in a draw or somewhere how does one prove 100% its his/hers? Being a crim he/she is hardly likely to confess.

Bob
 

Larry L.

Lifetime Supporter
So Wishy Washy if the said illegal firearm is not actually on a person maybe in a draw or somewhere how does one prove 100% its his/hers? Being a crim he/she is hardly likely to confess.

Bob
...perhaps you missed the "BEYOND any REASONABLE DOUBT" part...or the "r-e-s-o-n-a-b-l-e basis for an appeal" thing?
 
How long do you guys want this problem to continue ?
It's really, frankly simple.
Possession of ANY firearm is a death sentence, carried out within 7 days.
No crap legal stays. Simple is best, just as in car design.
Do what the Chinese do and send the bill for the bullet used, to the family.
That's ' Good Bhuddist ' sense to me, what goes around comes around.
Until you get out of your sampled loop of ' Rights ' you will be doomed for a downward spiral...it's really that simple, learn new behaviour.
Charlie, Wisconsin alone has 600,000 hunters, the second largest standing army in the world, and that's just one state. There are 330,000,000 firearms in the US. You want some violence? Try to take those guns.
Obama's home Chicago has strict firearms laws. Year To Date
Shot & Killed: 179 Shot & Wounded: 1021 Total Shot: 1200 Total Homicides: 208 They slap their hands. Lots of Black kids dying here, but not to worry, it doesn't carry political weight.
 

Larry L.

Lifetime Supporter
I agree with you Charlie, but have learned it's useless discussing this with paranoid gun owners on this forum.
You forgot to mention "who cling to their religion" (- Obama).


Australia benefitted from gun control (despite what Pete thinks).
How, exactly? ('Serious question.)

Pete lives there...you live in the Pacific N.W., USA. So, which of you would logic suggest is likely to have the more accurate viewpoint on the topic? :shrug:
 

Keith

Moderator
n.)

Pete lives there...you live in the Pacific N.W., USA. So, which of you would logic suggest is likely to have the more accurate viewpoint on the topic? :shrug:
So, "Living there" (here there anywhere) gives you automatic comprehension? Why is it then that we in the West are continually trying to save people that live "there" from themselves?
 

Pete McCluskey.

Lifetime Supporter
So, "Living there" (here there anywhere) gives you automatic comprehension? Why is it then that we in the West are continually trying to save people that live "there" from themselves?
Because we in the West, are caring, sharing, hand wringing, do gooders.
Or some politition needs a conflict to take the heat of his policies.:furious:
 

marc

Lifetime Supporter
In USA 330 million guns, 2015 almost 6000 deaths by gun(s), the percent of those way below 1%, Is that a resason to completely disarm Americans that legally own firearms? Our Constitution allows for that right, and due to some crazies each year does not justify invalidating our rights.
I am saddened by each and every happenstance of gun violence.More people in America are killed in auto accidents, we are not going to take cars away from us and yet, they are not looking to do that, yet.
 
In USA 330 million guns, 2015 almost 6000 deaths by gun(s), the percent of those way below 1%, Is that a resason to completely disarm Americans that legally own firearms? Our Constitution allows for that right, and due to some crazies each year does not justify invalidating our rights.
I am saddened by each and every happenstance of gun violence.More people in America are killed in auto accidents, we are not going to take cars away from us and yet, they are not looking to do that, yet.
There is a lot more reason to take cars away, the death percentage is far higher. Or stop Doctors, 100K accidental deaths a year. But neither of these represent "control". And "control" is the reason.
 

Charlie Farley

Supporter
Ok Al,

I accept, some of my posts are designed of late, to elicit a response
( one of those months, as a long lost girlfriend once said to me )
however, i can't see any legislation to only limit ownership ever working.
As to who owns the gun when it's in a drawer, the police don't seem to see that as a problem when they find a kilo of Bolivia's finest marching powder.
As to your Constitution. We had the Corn Laws and both eventually got in
the way of modernisation. No laws should be sacresanct.
 

Keith

Moderator
I don't believe anyone (sane) thinks taking guns away is the answer, but perhaps a raft of baby steps to make gun ownership a milestone rather than an automatic right, and generally look very hard at popular gun culture as portrayed in the media. Andrew has a good point re: responsibility for ownership. I was at a party once in Al, looking for a bottle opener, and every drawer (and cupboard) in the kitchen had a gun in it. Scary....

And why would you put your shotgun in the cab rack to go to the mall?
 
I fail to see the relevance of car related deaths etc in this debate, you could drown face down in a bowl of cornflakes if you tried hard enough or beat someone to death with a paintbrush . Surely we are only talking about the CRIMINAL USE of a firearm where a perp sticks a gun into someone and pulls the trigger.

Bob
 

Keith

Moderator
I fail to see the relevance of car related deaths etc in this debate, you could drown face down in a bowl of cornflakes if you tried hard enough or beat someone to death with a paintbrush . Surely we are only talking about the CRIMINAL USE of a firearm where a perp sticks a gun into someone and pulls the trigger.

Bob
It's a well used diversionary tactic where guns are involved...
 

Larry L.

Lifetime Supporter
In USA...2015 almost 6000 deaths by gun(s)...
Let's just assume that figure is accurate.

How many of those deaths were: (1) accidents, (2) suicides, (3) result of criminal activity...especially involving drugs and gangs?


According to nssf.org, there are around 600 accidental gun related deaths annually. 600. THREE HUNDERED AND THIRTY MILLION GUNS in the country...600 accidental 'deaths (and one has to wonder how many of THOSE occurred in a criminal [gang] household involving an 'illegal' gun):

http://www.nssf.org/PDF/research/IIR_InjuryStatistics2013.pdf




Now, anyone wanna compare accidental gun vs. accidental car death stats?

According to the L.A. Times, there were 253 million cars/trucks on U.S. roads as of June, 2014:

253 million cars and trucks on U.S. roads; average age is 11.4 years - LA Times


In 2013, there were 32,719 traffic deaths...again; 253 million cars on the road (in 2014)...32,719 traffic DEATHS (in 2013):

Fatality Facts



32,719 traffic accident deaths
- 600 gun accident deaths
32,119 MORE traffic deaths than gun deaths even though there were about 80 mil or so fewer 'weapons' (cars) involved on the 'car' side of the equation.


'Kinda puts things into perspective a bit 'more gooder', dunnit.

'Can't really argue with the obvious conclusion simple math provides...but, I'm sure someone will take a 'shot' (sorry!) at it...
 
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