F1 in 2013

[Keith]

He was given a 10 place penalty under the "totting up" rules, meaning he had infringed twice before and has 2 previous reprimands.

As for the incident.

The rules preclude it following an incident in another series. It was put in place to prevent serious injury and these two knew this full well and chose to ignore it. It was a dangerous thing to do frankly, Alonso came to a stop on the track and Webber re-entered the track without the Marshall's permission. On the cooling down lap with drivers attention possibly wandering - checking instruments, waving to their mums etc, it is easy to see how someone coming into a blind corner and being confronted with a stationary Alonso and Webber running across the track could have piled into them both.

Simple rules for all.

 

[roaldin]

Dangerous at ten mph (or whatever) - of course! Absolutely! Especially compared to what these professional drivers and athletes who survive on judgement do out there normally... Come on...
Our lives are now full of things we can't do because something once happened. Kids can't even enjoy neighbourhood playgrounds anymore because no one is willing to accept the risk since someone hurt themselves.

Stop them going so fast, stop them racing, and especially, stop them passing, then we'll have a risk free event.
The risk they were taking was minuscule compared to their everyday activity, the risk to the public was massively less than normal.

Personally I think actions such as this are good for the sport - look at what Rossi did for motorbike GP with the things he did - much of which could be labelled unacceptably dangerous by the over zealous. Indy car tried to get Zanardi to stop doing donuts, but seriously, it was a great energiser for that sport. And he sure as he'll wasn't doing donuts when he lost his legs...

Hey, on a completely different note, don't know why I thought of this, nothing to do with this conversation - Why can't I get a coffee that couldn't be warmed up with an ice cube now...? Oh yeah, actually..........

Simple rules for all, I think you mean rules for simply everything.

You really surprised me with this one Baron.
I will find a better clip, but if it was (reasonably) after the finish then I fail to see why it is a risk worthy of penalty.

Tim.

 

[Jimmy P]

There was a F1 race on sunday apparently. Vetal was there and some others.
Bored shitless.

Bob

Agreed.....RB & Vettel are in another galaxy compared to others. Yawn! Even when the pace car bunches the pack up and takes away his lead no one can stay with him. Shame for anyone who's a fan of F1. Ain't fun right now.

 

[roaldin]

As ridiculous as f1 is now, it's still more interesting than watching cars going round in circles. Neither are as interesting as watching paint dry though.
Can't tell you how sad I am that I feel this way about a sport I used to love so much.

Tim.

 

[Malcolm]

I have a large framed print of Mansell Senna doing the same thing at the British GP from years ago. Of course Senna used it as an opportunity to look at the instruments to see what was what when he got a lift. Never one to miss a trick!

So did Alonso get a penalty too? Or did he use his teflon powers...

 

[Keith]

Dangerous at ten mph (or whatever) - of course! Absolutely! Especially compared to what these professional drivers and athletes who survive on judgement do out there normally... Come on...
Our lives are now full of things we can't do because something once happened. Kids can't even enjoy neighbourhood playgrounds anymore because no one is willing to accept the risk since someone hurt themselves.

Tim, keep calm. Hamilton was doing over 60 kph for one thing and he himself said he could have hit them. For another, this isn't about political correctness or anything else. They broke a rule of the sport. Do you mean they should be able to pick and choose the rules they adhere to without sanction just because it's "good for the show?"

I might well surprise you Tim, but one of the reasons I have never been in prison is because I chose to obey a set of rules I didn't necessarily agree with and if I didn't like them, I lobbied to change.

Do you have any further suggestions as to which rules should be ignored by the drivers in F1? There must be loads to pick from. Have at it.

 

[Keith]

I have a large framed print of Mansell Senna doing the same thing at the British GP from years ago. Of course Senna used it as an opportunity to look at the instruments to see what was what when he got a lift. Never one to miss a trick!

So did Alonso get a penalty too? Or did he use his teflon powers...

Alonso also got a reprimand.

The rule was introduced because someone fell off a single seater doing the same thing and went under the rear wheels...

 

[Robert May Eng.]

I miss all of the stuff below.:sad:
The cleverness of the tacticians with fuel/tyre stops.
The qualifying cars and a T car to run back and jump into after first corner shunts.
The two tyre companies doing battle.
The wheel banging.
Developments regardless of cost.
The cheating.
The testing all winter to bring the best you have to the track at the beginning of the season.
Some of the real characters like Mansell ,Senna,Schummi,Hunt,Stewart.

Its all so sterile correct and fecking boring now, thats not to take away anything that Redbull and Petal have achieved. I feel the bike racing is far more entertaining.

Bob

 

[Doc Kaler]

After watching the you tube video.....there were multiple opportunities for mishaps!

 

[Pete McCluskey.]

Hey Keith I reckon the only reason you stayed out of prison was because you never got caught:laugh:

 

[roaldin]

Hmm, Keith never broke a rule, or Keith never got caught... which do I believe...?

So something around 35 mph... The horror! Pfff...
It's just another dumb, knee jerk rule that in this case stifles the atmosphere of F1.
An opportunity to create a new rule and/or penalise is always too hard for a bureaucracy to miss. It is after all the only proof of the need for them to exist.
In my book this is typical nannying.

You don't mind this particular bit of nannying because it doesn't affect you directly. How about other restrictions that are designed to protect YOU from YOUR own judgement? Never broken one? I don't believe it.

The words sterile, correct, and fecking boring describe F1, and much of life now, perfectly...
Of course there were multiple opportunities for mishaps... Racing used to be a playground for risk takers, people who wanted to actually live life and have fun. What is racing when it is wrapped in cotton wool? Just like the lives of those who would protect us from ourselves: dull and pointless.


Tim.

 

[Keith]

So you are complaining about the actual rule or the action?

Several drivers complained about the action so I guess the stewards had nowhere to go.

I can't work out what you are arguing against Tim and as for never breaking a rule, possibly but certainly never in front of perhaps 60 million people watching a major sporting event and certainly not one which might have knowingly resulted in loss of life.

It was a dangerous stunt. Several drivers were unsighted and it could have gone very wrong. However, had there been no rule in place I would have commented "well, that was a close call" but not called for a ban.

That would have been the "nanny" bit you seem keen to impose on me.
Do you see the difference?

As a final comment, I spent 50 years in an industry where I regularly had a professional "duty of care" both morally and legally over thousands of people at a time. It is a heavy responsibility and proves a difficult balance between being an annoying "nanny", and encouraging an arena for enjoyment - the objective of which being making sure no-one dies or gets seriously hurt on your watch.

There are very serious moral, legal and financial implications for failure and as a result, there has to be rules.

In critical situations, it tends to be those who ignore or are dismissive of such rules that get hurt and hurt others, in the process.

 

[roaldin]

I have zero problem with the actions of Webber and Alonso.
Other drivers complain because they see a strategic opportunity.
I argue that over restrictive rules and penalties deserve the contempt they get.
When too many too finicky rules based on previous occurrence are implemented it is similar to (or perhaps is) overfitting, and the result is detrimental.

In critical situations it is often the guy that flouts overly restrictive rules that saves the day.

How'd you feel about that old war photo of the guy flying a Spitfire under a bridge? Terrible reckless thing to do huh...

Lowest common denominator rules are the pavers of (supposedly) good intentions that make up the road to hell. Welcome to hell Keith.

It's life Jim, but not as we knew it.

Have it your way Keith (actually it will go that way like it or not), I really don't care enough anymore. F1 as I knew it is dead, killed by things like this that have sucked the life out of it. Hmm, might use that last bit as my epitaph.


Tim.

 

[Keith]

I´m with you on this.

However, if Vettel´s behaviour in Malaysia and aftermath doesn´t justify booing (which IMO it would), then Vettel´s Bling helmet design certainly does. Disco King.

Hey, Disco King!

Danke!

 

[roaldin]

Btw I do not call you nanny.
I do however begin to think collaborator. ;p

Oh and who are you to accuse me of a lack of calm? I saw your "think I've changed thread"! ;p

Really Baron, if these last few posts are indicative of your level of discontent then I suggest another change of name is needed - "Winter" just doesn't cut it. ;p

Tim.

 

[Malcolm]

Cynically, Alsono probably knew Webber would get the penalty so picked him up delibrately to get one red bull off the front of the grid......

I was wondering why Webber was sitting so bolt upright on Alonso's car? Probably had an aero device stuck where the sun don't shine. Not a lot of space to sit on a car like that nowadays!

Agree falling under rear wheels is bad risk. What F1 driver does, lesser formula and amateurs copy and somehow we are not as good as F1 drivers however much we think we are.

 

[Keith]

Alonso spielt Taxi für Webber: Der Wahnsinn von Singapur im Video

 

[Marcus]

Hey, Disco King!

Danke!

Bitte sehr!

 

[roaldin]

That's all it was? Doesn't look even slightly worrisome to me.
If Hamilton complained I'd bet he did so because he saw an opportunity for advantage.

Enjoy your modern utopia. I'm sure they have your best interests at heart - like it or not.

Tim.

 

[Robert May Eng.]

I forgot to add that F1 needs another Murray Walker. The man could bring you to the edge of your seat with just his enthusiasm , Coultard despite being very good at explaining whats going on technically has not got that Murrayesque quality.

Bob