Pete McCluskey.
Lifetime Supporter
Love it:thumbsup:
F1 in 2013
- Thread starter David Morton
- Start date
Love it:thumbsup:
Jeff Young
GT40s Supporter
I hate team orders as much as anyone but the thing that burns me up is Webber essentially got ambushed. If he THOUGHT Vettel was going to race him, he could have dialed the fuel maps up and maintained his gap. But he didn't, he turned his stuff down, Vettel used that to close and then pass.
I think they should let them race, no team orders, but I still think Webber got screwed.
Pat
Supporter
This early in the season, part of the game is engine durability. With eight engine limits for each car and the bulk of the season to go, the team determined the race settled and went into conservation mode which Vettel chose to disregard at Webber's expense and possibly his own down the road.
If I recall, Vettel ran out of spares in 2010.
If I recall, Vettel ran out of spares in 2010.
Last edited:
I think that between Vettel and Webber, the gloves are going to come off. I would pay to see them beat each other up. Then again, if Red Bull doesn't get a hand on this, they may just be taking themselves out of races like before when Vettel came on board.
Pete McCluskey.
Lifetime Supporter
Gedday Tim, why do you think so?
My comment was slightly (but perhaps not completely) tongue in cheek, but in case you are interested in why I am contempuous of f1 these days:-
For me the main issue is the idea that its a show rather than a race. Rules designed to create a 'better show' and the resulting manipulated closer 'racing' are enough for me to find some interesting growing grass to watch.
F1 is a cynical giv'em what they want business, not a sport.
I don't watch it at all unless I'm bored these days.
There is far more interesting racing to be found than farce 1 or indeed formula taxi (think NASCAR with fewer action figure dolls), all of it between people who do it for fun, competition and the sport of it.
I am a car person that has followed and participated in racing all my life, I am not their 'target audience'.
I can type no more, this stupid 'you dont want to do that, I know what you really want' iPhone is driving me mad!
Modern technology/modern 'racing' - bah humbug!
Tim.
For me the main issue is the idea that its a show rather than a race. Rules designed to create a 'better show' and the resulting manipulated closer 'racing' are enough for me to find some interesting growing grass to watch.
F1 is a cynical giv'em what they want business, not a sport.
I don't watch it at all unless I'm bored these days.
There is far more interesting racing to be found than farce 1 or indeed formula taxi (think NASCAR with fewer action figure dolls), all of it between people who do it for fun, competition and the sport of it.
I am a car person that has followed and participated in racing all my life, I am not their 'target audience'.
I can type no more, this stupid 'you dont want to do that, I know what you really want' iPhone is driving me mad!
Modern technology/modern 'racing' - bah humbug!
Tim.
Pete McCluskey.
Lifetime Supporter
Fair enough mate, the same applies to V8 super cars as well.
I don't disagree with anything you have said, but still enjoy watching F1.
But a Formula Ford race with a full grid is even better.
I don't disagree with anything you have said, but still enjoy watching F1.
But a Formula Ford race with a full grid is even better.
You need rules in racing. That's what creates different category's. Take the rules away and no-one will race.....
Don't understand you fellas. Just having a crack, without thinking about the consequence.....no rules....it's "team rules" that fcuk it!
Don't understand you fellas. Just having a crack, without thinking about the consequence.....no rules....it's "team rules" that fcuk it!
There are rules and there are rules. The interesting forms of racing have rules too...
For my part I made no argument proposing the absence of rules and I don't recall such a thing being seriously proposed by anyone else.
I don't understand you guys having a crack at an argument by misrepresenting it. ;p
Tim.
For my part I made no argument proposing the absence of rules and I don't recall such a thing being seriously proposed by anyone else.
I don't understand you guys having a crack at an argument by misrepresenting it. ;p
Tim.
Last edited:
Jim Craik
Lifetime Supporter
There have always been team orders in F1! Even for the short time they were illegal, they were still there. Thats why they call them "Teams" and why they must have two cars painted the same.
Surly you have heard of the 1950's with teamates being called in to give their car to Fangio. Remember the start of the movie Grand Prix......."let him through"......"you can't blame him for wanting to race"......"not with a team mate".............Not following team orders got Pete Aaron fired.
Back a few years ago they would have held out a hold position sign and no one would have known or cared.
I think what has changed is that today, we hear the in-car radio discussions with the drivers pleading and complaining. The media then makes this the big story, totally forgetting what a great race we just saw. Team orders are not the story, but the stab in the back......................
You know, I was starting to admire, even like the young German, but as far as I'm concerned, he is now Didier Vettel, scum of the Earth!
Surly you have heard of the 1950's with teamates being called in to give their car to Fangio. Remember the start of the movie Grand Prix......."let him through"......"you can't blame him for wanting to race"......"not with a team mate".............Not following team orders got Pete Aaron fired.
Back a few years ago they would have held out a hold position sign and no one would have known or cared.
I think what has changed is that today, we hear the in-car radio discussions with the drivers pleading and complaining. The media then makes this the big story, totally forgetting what a great race we just saw. Team orders are not the story, but the stab in the back......................
You know, I was starting to admire, even like the young German, but as far as I'm concerned, he is now Didier Vettel, scum of the Earth!
Last edited:
While you have multi vehicle teams there are going to be times when team orders are appropriate. This may have unfortunate consequences but it is what it is.
On reflection I have discovered that with some exceptions, eg: LeMans, I am far more interested in one team one vehicle forms of Motorsport. I can now happily narrow my PVR search settings.
Jim, for the sake of my sanity and demeanour, please avoid using fictional movies as real life examples...
Oh and "scum of the Earth"? That's a bit harsh isn't it? Too used to polarised U.S. political discussion methinks... ;p
FWIW I seem to vaguely recall Webber racing with Vettel in a perhaps inappropriate manner... Possibly Brazil? Might have it confused as I don't take too much interest in it as I have already stated.
Tim.
On reflection I have discovered that with some exceptions, eg: LeMans, I am far more interested in one team one vehicle forms of Motorsport. I can now happily narrow my PVR search settings.
Jim, for the sake of my sanity and demeanour, please avoid using fictional movies as real life examples...
Oh and "scum of the Earth"? That's a bit harsh isn't it? Too used to polarised U.S. political discussion methinks... ;p
FWIW I seem to vaguely recall Webber racing with Vettel in a perhaps inappropriate manner... Possibly Brazil? Might have it confused as I don't take too much interest in it as I have already stated.
Tim.
Last edited:
Found this - "In 2011, Briatore was critical when Webber himself ignored team orders to challenge Vettel for second place at that year's British Grand Prix.
Webber was also reluctant to move aside in last year's championship-decider in Brazil, when a charging Vettel, delayed by a lap-one spin, was chasing every possible point in his quest to capture a third-straight world title."
No angels or demons, just racers and teams; at that level at least...
Tim
Webber was also reluctant to move aside in last year's championship-decider in Brazil, when a charging Vettel, delayed by a lap-one spin, was chasing every possible point in his quest to capture a third-straight world title."
No angels or demons, just racers and teams; at that level at least...
Tim
Shame the poison dwarf had to put his five eggs in for his favoured son.
He says Vettel was right. But that is not the point , if it was to be gloves off for Vettel it would have been for Webber too.......................................
He says Vettel was right. But that is not the point , if it was to be gloves off for Vettel it would have been for Webber too.......................................
David Morton
Lifetime Supporter
Paul,
You're beginning to realise at last.
It really was a lack lustre race until you were allowed to listen in to the r/t.
If there was no r/t feed to the the tv broadcaster, it would have been
even more lacking and it really had to be spiced up otherwise another RBR P1 and P2 (boring or what?) would start turning the fans away in droves al la the Schumacher years. Its all staged believe me. I bet you will feel compelled to tune in for the next event and see how things have panned out. Didi is already siding with Mark and Helmut siding with the wunderkind. Its become coronation street on wheels.
Dave
You're beginning to realise at last.
It really was a lack lustre race until you were allowed to listen in to the r/t.
If there was no r/t feed to the the tv broadcaster, it would have been
even more lacking and it really had to be spiced up otherwise another RBR P1 and P2 (boring or what?) would start turning the fans away in droves al la the Schumacher years. Its all staged believe me. I bet you will feel compelled to tune in for the next event and see how things have panned out. Didi is already siding with Mark and Helmut siding with the wunderkind. Its become coronation street on wheels.
Dave
But with the good man Flav being the manager for Mr W. anything can happen....................maybe the Vet will be asked to crash out and gift China to Markus...................
David Morton
Lifetime Supporter
Pierluigi Martini dies at 66
David Morton
Lifetime Supporter
Until recently Pier lived on the hill to the eastern side of Imola Circuit. He had been ill for some time.
In 1995 I nearly became his next door neighbour when we were looking at buying a house in Imola. Ironically Schumacher was trying to buy the same house but the Mayor of Imola (who sanctions such things ) said a resounding 'no' to MS.
In 1995 I nearly became his next door neighbour when we were looking at buying a house in Imola. Ironically Schumacher was trying to buy the same house but the Mayor of Imola (who sanctions such things ) said a resounding 'no' to MS.
Similar threads
