Great Britain and The EU. In or Out?

[Keith]

We have an election in about 14 weeks time. One of the key issues is going to be our membership of the EEC (even though there is no political will to debate it by the main parties, it is most definitely a vote catcher by the fledgeling UKIP party). It is very popular at the moment to 'want out' but I for one, do not understand (nor has anyone been very specific) on just how we would survive outside of it.

My gut feeling is that we should either completely rehash our terms of membership or leave. I voted for the EU back in the '70's but no-one expected the runaway juggernaut with all of it's heavy load of Federalism that is has become. For me, political and monetary union is a definite no-no. I want secure borders and our own Govt and currency. We have only one of these at the moment despite appearances to the contrary.

America is extremely important to this debate as it is a significant market for both our countries,

So what does the panel think? Any meaningful inputs?

 

[Jack]

I'm with you on this one Keith. Secure borders, Gov't and currency as a minimum.
A complete rehash would not be out of order.
You did forget one word describing the runaway juggernaut, and that would be "corrupt".
I have had years and years of dealing with the EU/EEC politic and commissions, etc.
and it stinks! But I'm just a dumb yank.

 

[David Morton]

The existing government will be taking a major pasting and the lib. dems will never ever have anything to do with power again. I, for one, would like to see some of the previous ministers being subject to a commons select committee - such as Liam Fox and his Strategic Defense Review where he disposed of the Harriers for a paltry sum and destroyed the Nimrod MR2 and MR4 - but all the tosspots will gather around him and exonerate him. The corruption over party donors will run and run right up to the election and it would seem to taint all the major contenders (except to a lesser extent UKIP).
I would vote to leave the EEC for ever having seen how the rule makers have dominated our lives for the last twenty or so years and created some of the most amazing and crass rules I have ever heard.

 

[Ian Anderson]

Switzerland is not in the EU but is doing fine

Why do you think the UK would be any different?

Sure free movement of goods is a good idea but the rest of the crap rules coming from Brusels naaaah

I am an out

Ian

 

[Pete McCluskey.]

Well I'm on the outside looking in but I would vote to leave it.if that is achieved you can once more be masters of your own destiny.

 

[Robert May Eng.]

My take on this ( which is worthless ) is we rely on the EU for everything. We manufacture virtually nothing and most of our farms are laid up dormant so we dont even feed ourselves anymore. London does very well out of the EU with almost all of the Worlds biggest businesses having their head office there , this contributes massively to the British economy. Would the big business stay in London if we were to leave the EU or would it move to Germany ? The little trade that we do with Eu would probably suffer if we pulled out.
Immigration, we can all bleat about the influx of migrant workers but the only reason they are here is to work. They dont come here to work for peanuts as the press would have you believe they are here doing the jobs that the bone idle youth of today think they are too good for.
Currency, there are many drivers on this and I think the Euro is a bad idea. Individual currency is a great way to avoid a Greece scenario, if they had kept the drachma a poor economic outlook would have driven the value of the currency down which in turn would have brought investment in, this may have saved them without the need for a bailout, they never needed any bailouts before they went for the euro.

Leave the EU? its a no from me.

Bob

 

[Keith]

But I'm just a dumb yank.

A man that sits right at the back of the bleachers often sees more of the game...

 

[Keith]

Leave the EU? its a no from me.

Bob

Curiously, I tend to agree but with a mandate to 'renegotiate'. Norway is not a member and yet has special status I believe.

Thing is, how would France & Germany react if we walked?

 

[Jack]

A man that sits right at the back of the bleachers often sees more of the game...

LOL!!!!

 

[Charlie Farley]

How about this;
I spent the time contacting a Senior Lecturer at a carpentry college.
" Looking for a second year student, wanting to work 2 or 3 days a week "
He asked and gave me 3 phone numbers. ............
None of them turned up for a chat.....
Give me an immigrant everyday, motivation......
As an afterthought, these a holes are meant to be working to pay for our pensions...
We have paid for their educations ( fat lot of good that did )
I guess the ipad is glued to their face..
I'm for staying in, sorry.

 

[Marcus]

Thing is, how would France & Germany react if we walked?

As for Germany...

 

[Jeff Young]

Long term studies show economic unions between "like" countries work, and benefit both. Canada and the US have benefitted tremendously from NAFTA and Mexico and the US have and will continue to as Mexico modernizes and develops a large middle class.

Eliminating trade restrictions and uniformity of regulation save money and time.

Where there are issues are in a union that includes "non-like" countries. Differetn social and political structures, and economic strength, causes problems. This from teh outside seems to be the biggest problem with the EU. How to deal with Greece, and to a lesser extent Italy and Portugal.

Now spending a fair amount of time in Europe, I am AMAZED at the ease of travel, and how easy it is to buy things with the Euro across many countries. Simply amazing and a true advantage you guys have over us in North America.

I suspect that most of the real opposition to the EU (other than the valid concerns about the financial stabiity of some members) is visceral and a feeling of losing national sovereignity . That's not "invalid," but it is I think just a natural price of progress.

Time marches on. The world is globalizing which on the whole is a good thing. But scary for all of us as traditional borders and definitions of nationality break down.

 

[Larry L.]

Give me an immigrant everyday, motivation......

...as long as he's a l-e-g-a-l immigrant.

Oh, wait...you don't have that pblm over there...

 

[Marcus]

if that is achieved you can once more be masters of your own destiny.

Hmm...really? You´re talking about the US´s biggest outpost in Europe.

Although to me personally, Great Britain is and always will be THE nation of bold conquerors, entrepreneurs and innovators shrouded in tradition and humour, a growing number of people at least in Germany, despite all genuine sympathy, gets more and more the impression of Great Britain being the biggest slut in the room who on the one hand kisses America´s ass and on the other hand picks raisins in the EU whereever possible.

 

[Keith]

gets more and more the impression of Great Britain being the biggest slut in the room who on the one hand kisses America´s ass and on the other hand picks raisins in the EU whereever possible.

You talkin' to me Big Boy?:gorgeous:

 

[Marcus]

Yup :laugh:

 

[Nick]

despite all genuine sympathy, gets more and more the impression of Great Britain being the biggest slut in the room who on the one hand kisses America´s ass and on the other hand picks raisins in the EU whereever possible.

Hold on there Marcus I saw this in a film so it must be true

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMJcZpvyNok

 

[Stephen Ducker]

This is all pretty constructive, am I still in the paddock ? !

This would be my first chance to vote on the 'Common Market', as it was known the last time anyone had any meaningful democratic vote in the UK on this subject.

I would absolutely vote to leave.

I do not believe this dinosaur could be properly renegotiated. I suspect it has gone on for far too many years for that & the gravy train of freeloaders that live off of it would surely begin a process of re federalisation the next day.
It was 'sold' to the UK as a 'Common Market' but it is now an uncontrollable federal juggernaut.

To those that rightly point out the need for a certain amount of imported labour (both permanent & temporary), I suggest a points based, controlled system. The only way that is possible now is by leaving the EU.
I'm sick of the people who bleat on "oh they're working & so paying in to our national coffers'. A massive percentage are here illegally & working for cash, undercutting legal businesses thus making others unemployed, who we then have to pay benefits to.
Then of the hundreds of thousands actually on PAYE, most are on minimum wage so paying virtually nothing in tax. They have got wives, kids & other dependants for the UK to support though......

The EU is far from being the 'price of progress' & is frequently very inward looking. Global trade / globalisation predates the EU and is not reliant on such a 'club'.
EU membership has tied us into an unproductive & unreciprocated car trade agreement with South Korea incidently.

Many of my friends & family are (or were) involved in agriculture & the fishing industry. Both industries have suffered by EU membership.

We do not 'rely' on the EU. London continues to thrive as a financial centre because of Pounds Stirling & the way it operates. I do not see the city failing outside the EU.
Who doesn't have American, Japanese, Chinese, Canadian products in their house or on their driveway, they sure as hell aren't from Europe. It is all about global trade not just regions.

Nick Clegg says Europe 'keeps us safe'. Well we had Interpol before & free movement has proven to be quite handy for terrorists. What a load of crap Clegg.

The EU has 'kept the peace in Europe since 1945' more total crap. Whilst it certainly hasn't made major conflicts between nations likely, the thanks for peace belong to NATO, the UN & the independent forces of France, Britain, West Germany etc, (plus a good deal of common sense & luck too !).

The UK has always, every year, & would always be a net contributor to the EU. To be clear, we pay more in than we get out. This they try and tell me is FREE TRADE. We have more genuine free trade outside the EU.

In closing thank fcuk Labour didn't drag us into the Euro, possibly they only sound financial decision they made, although they certainly really wanted to do it.

Regards Steve

 

[David Morton]

Brilliant post. Thank you Steve.
Dave M

 

[Keith]

A good old fashioned (but informative) Paddock rant Stephen... :thumbsup:

More like this please....

Real opinions welcome..

PS I am not so sure we are going to get our referendum after all. We should push hard for it...