GT40 chassis / car manufacturers

[Jay Cushman]

Roy it was my understanding that the 2 sets of rear clevis rods that I sent Chris Melia a couple years ago were for you and him. If I am wrong no problem. I was in fact trying to give a real and honest good report on the few people in the world realy interested in exact replicars and have found them all honest and great to deal with. I included you in this group. Maybe I was mistaken. I have never had a problem but you seem pretty wound up over something.

I found no real basis to the first complaints in this thread in all of my dealings with these guys and wanted to state that for any new interested parties in these type of cars. I agree the more people interested the better off we all are. If you have had some problems I am sorry for that but I guess they have nothing to do with me as you said we never had any dealings. So where did you get those rear clevis rods?

 

[Jay Cushman]

One last note on this subject; If we are all making exact replicars and original replacement parts are we not all coping somebody? AS somebody else has said here already "as long as its a real clone who cares? " There are a few people in the world with original blueprints and even less with a full set. There are alot of people with some original parts to copy and the market will sort out whats good and whats not. I realy don't care if somebody wants to buy a part I made and copy it as there not a huge market and I make the stuff I need and can sell. I know I copied somebody or at least I hope I did.

I guess my real point here is if somebody didn't invest a huge amount of cash and resources in making an exaxt copy mono I wouln't have anything to put my copy parts on.

 

[Brian Magee]

John W.

I think this now answers your original question.

Brian.

 

[John W]

Oh dear.
I had hoped you guys might talk, not fight !

Jay, Roy is producing tubs, but also is not ready to shout about them until they are completed. This is why he hasn't posted any pictures. As with Mirage / Gox he has a number of orders and is not able to accept further enquiries until these are dealt with. I'm not speaking for Roy, just passing on what I know since I am one of his customers.

JimmyMac, I don't want to start another argument but can you confirm if the roofs you brought have been copied ? (I don't care who by)
I ask merely to determine if Roys suspisions are correct, so he can go pick up some of his toys if he has gone off half-cocked
Incidentally, I've heard from a number of sources that Mirage will copy anything they can lay their hands on. This may well be an unfounded rumour, which has now become widely spread. No doubt it would be good to quash this if it is incorrect as it can only harm their image. This wasn't the purpose of this thread, so I don't really want to dwell on it.

I did email Ray some time back and was told he'd only supply parts to those buying his chassis/parts package. I had already commited by then, so I've not tried to contact them since.
Goran initially spoke with me until he found that I knew Roy (he actually contacted Roy to ask who I was), and would then only deal on an information/parts exchange basis.
Since I didn't have anything he wanted it was conversation over.

I think the potential parts copying is in some part due to why each company doesn't want to deal with other individual customers in case they are simply a go between for the other manufacturers. None of them seem to trust each other...
I can state here all the parts I buy are for me to put on my car. I am not representing Roy in any way. He is big (well little actually ) enough and ugly enough to do his own business.

Jay, I've spoken with you on a number of occasions and always found you responsive to my enquires. I don't think we have done business yet, but I'd like to think we will in the future. At the time you didn't have the mkII parts I was after, but it seems you've been busy as CraigB tells me he's been buying loads of mkII stuff from you recently. Theres an email coming your way shortly.

Its interesting to hear that the SPF parts are maybe not interchangeable, as they were one of the companies that would not supply me parts. I didn't realise their pedal boxes were not castings - that was one of the things I enquired about. Doh !

So I guess this thread shows that I'm not the only one to experience these problems, and that feelings are running high so its unlikely to be resolved any time soon


One final thing. If your a supplier or a customer and think you can help me with anything that I might need for a mkII, please send me a pm with an email address and I'll mail you back.

Happy Christmas everybody.

Cheers,
John.

[edit] one final final thing. My reasons for shopping around for bits is partly because I'm a tight git and like to save money
The other reason is that some parts suppliers like to make things in sets, and so will not fulfil an order until they have sufficient to make up a batch. I was not in a position to buy 5 sets of uprights on my own. I have done one bulk buy in the past to get a part I needed, but did disclose who the parts werre going to so the seller was aware...

 

[Roy Snook]

Hi Jay,
thanks for your reply, I can confirm that I have not got any of your clevis pins from Chris or any other source, I don't need any at the moment, I try to use nos stuff where I can.
I never received a reply to my question about the 5 bolt 289 block that you said you had "how much do you want for it?"
best regards
Roy

 

[Jay Cushman]

Roy;
5-bolt 289 HiPo block $1500. I will have to pull it out and double check the bore and so forth. Still have it but have not looked at it in years.

John;
Original GT40 stuff comed and goes around here. I have sold craig alot of stuff that he needed and am making him some stuff now and would be glad to sell you anything you need if its available. Just let me know what you need.

 

[JimmyMac]

Oh dear.
I had hoped you guys might talk, not fight !

JimmyMac, I don't want to start another argument but can you confirm if the roofs you brought have been copied ? (I don't care who by)
I ask merely to determine if Roys suspisions are correct, so he can go pick up some of his toys if he has gone off half-cocked
Incidentally, I've heard from a number of sources that Mirage will copy anything they can lay their hands on. This may well be an unfounded rumour, which has now become widely spread. No doubt it would be good to quash this if it is incorrect as it can only harm their image. This wasn't the purpose of this thread, so I don't really want to dwell on it.

I did email Ray some time back and was told he'd only supply parts to those buying his chassis/parts package. I had already commited by then, so I've not tried to contact them since.

[edit] one final final thing. My reasons for shopping around for bits is partly because I'm a tight git and like to save money
The other reason is that some parts suppliers like to make things in sets, and so will not fulfil an order until they have sufficient to make up a batch. I was not in a position to buy 5 sets of uprights on my own. I have done one bulk buy in the past to get a part I needed, but did disclose who the parts werre going to so the seller was aware...

John,
When you contacted me last week asking me to sell you some parts I advised you that I did not supply parts. You further replied to me and said that you were not going to copy them or give them to Roy or Chris, trying to gain some kind of favour, as I see it now.
So, if Mirage were "copying everything they could lay their hands on" why did I not refer you to them? Or perhaps even an idiot would question why I am making my own castings ?
In the past year, only about six people have actually visited the Mirage works and there are no parts down there so I would question how your friends might draw upon your purported widespread conclusion.

It is none of your business as you say, but I will state here and now that Mirage have not copied those roofs (which I purchased from somebody else so I cannot even state that they are Roy's work)

I have been nothing but open and helpful to you recently and you have cast aspersions of plagiarism on friends of mine and my dealings with other people. Even if I discount your admission to being a cheapskate, I am pretty sure as to why some folk are refusing to help you.
In my last conversation with you I did offer you a pedal box and other castings if I made some more but you can forget these now. (incidentally I have five more coming in January)

Good luck with your build ~ you will need it.

ps - Roy sent me his phone number so I will be discussing a few things with him after Christmas, openly and honestly.

 

[John W]

Hi James,

John,
When you contacted me last week asking me to sell you some parts I advised you that I did not supply parts. You further replied to me and said that you were not going to copy them or give them to Roy or Chris, trying to gain some kind of favour, as I see it now.

Not at all, I do not buy parts for Roy or anyone else. The first question from anybody I enquire of is usually 'who are you getting your chassis from'. Given that others assume the above I am up front about not doing so, as it cuts all the speculation.
For information, I brought one part (a casting) that required a minimum quantity of 3, so I asked at the enthusiasts club if anyone was interested and 2 others came forward. This allowed me to make the deal and I provided them at cost to the other people and we shared the delivery cost. What is more I copied them on the email correspondence.
If I were to buy more than one part in the future I would do the same again - open and honest and without profit, then there are no surprises.

So, if Mirage were "copying everything they could lay their hands on" why did I not refer you to them? Or perhaps even an idiot would question why I am making my own castings ?

I'm sorry, but you miss the point. I was rather hoping you could confirm to Roy exactly what you have done (nothing copied to your knowledge), and that hopefully Ray would post to dispell these rumours that are circulating.
I can only assume that this rumour (which is all it is as no one has proven otherwise) is the foundation for Roy to cop the hump.

In the past year, only about six people have actually visited the Mirage works and there are no parts down there so I would question how your friends might draw upon your purported widespread conclusion.

Oh dear. If you like you can email me and I'll tell you exactly who has told me this. I don't want to post it here as it is not the purpose of this thread, won't help, and wouldn't dispell the rumour either, which is what I was after. You've responded as if I've accused you of something which I have not. You have been open and honest to me, no question about it.

I have been nothing but open and helpful to you recently and you have cast aspersions of plagiarism on friends of mine and my dealings with other people. Even if I discount your admission to being a cheapskate, I am pretty sure as to why some folk are refusing to help you.

I haven't accused you or Mirage of anything of the sort. Roy made the comment on this thread, and I simply asked if you can confirm his suspisions are founded or not. I really don't care one way or the other as it doesn't affect me (or rather didn't until now given your response below. :uhoh

My 'Tight git' comment has a smiley after it and so was a light hearted comment. I am really trying to source all the bolt on bits while my chassis is being built so they are ready when it is, just as I suspect most of the rest of you are.

In my last conversation with you I did offer you a pedal box and other castings if I made some more but you can forget these now. (incidentally I have five more coming in January)

I'm sorry you feel that way. Yes you did offer, thanks. I had no idea they were due this soon given your current commitments.

I'm sorry if I've offended you in some way. It was not my intention to offend anyone in any of my posts in this thread.
I was rather hoping people might see the merit in talking and trading with each other, but its clear feelings run high, and there are probably a number of issues that have occured in the past that seem to impact on those who had nothing to do with them at the time.

I'll shut up now as it seems everything I post gets taken the wrong way :huh:

Regards,
John.

 

[JimmyMac]

John,
Thanks for your private message and those names.
Please take this offline from now on.

 

[JimmyMac]

Hi James,



I'm sorry, but you miss the point. I was rather hoping you could confirm to Roy exactly what you have done (nothing copied to your knowledge), and that hopefully Ray would post to dispell these rumours that are circulating.
I can only assume that this rumour (which is all it is as no one has proven otherwise) is the foundation for Roy to cop the hump.



I'll shut up now as it seems everything I post gets taken the wrong way :huh:

Regards,
John.

John,
I have already said that I don't need any parts copying ~ I will vouch that have more original parts than Roy Snook and these are at my house.
Mirage will not copy anybody's roof, presently they don't have the time to make press blocks that is why we bought TWO outer roof sections FOR OUR TWO CARS.
If these roof sections were Roys and he is pissed off then he should never have sold them and he should contact Mirage about his fears, it has nothing to do with anybody else.
If you do not take my word for it, then so be it.
I would like those names.

Please take this offline.

 

[John W]

John,
I have already said that I don't need any parts copying ~ I will vouch that have more original parts than Roy Snook and these are at my house.
Mirage will not copy anybody's roof, presently they don't have the time to make press blocks that is why we bought TWO outer roof sections FOR OUR TWO CARS.
If these roof sections were Roys and he is pissed off then he should never have sold them and he should contact Mirage about his fears, it has nothing to do with anybody else.
If you do not take my word for it, then so be it.
I would like those names.

Please take this offline.

I agree with the sentiments and have supplied details as suggested / requested.

All the best,
John.

 

[Bill Kearley]

For a percentage of the suppliers, I believe they got into this buisness to satisfy a passion which a few of us are hooked on. Some are strictly in for cash donations from a very special group of baby boomers. I personaly feel that competition in any market place makes a higher quality product, one of which I am determined to own some day very soon.

 

[Garry]

Hey guys,
I am following this thread with great interest. Like a lot of other guys, I hope to build my car in 2009. I am concerned with learning on this forum that SPF does not make an origional based copy as stated in their literature. I was under the impression that these were 85% copies of the origional design. That really makes me sad as i have been leaning toward buying a 'roller' and putting the finishing touches to make a great copy of one of the greatest cars of all time. It's always been my dream. Unlike some of you guys, I don't have the skill set to do a scratch build. So just for us idiots, can you give me the maker who makes the best GT40 replica ( according to origional cars built). I know, there is always a thread on who makes the best popping up , but you guys have raised the questions now.
Garry

 

[Al Jones]

Garry,the best GT40 is the one you choose for the type of use you desire.That's not a cop-out and here's why.You should choose what the PRIMARY usage will be:do you want a track car or a street car?A street car could be used on the track but it won't be the ultimate track weapon and you'll have to live with some compromises(racing brakes,tire changes,suspension tuning,etc.).Are you more comfortable with a spaceframe or do you want the original monocoque?Plain steel as per original,stainless,aluminum or composite?All available.Every conceivable engine choice as well.Check with the manufacturer.Call them,go see their wares if there's one close to you that you can view.The guys on the forum are really good that way.Look at the manufacturers on the forum: RCR,Superperformance,CAV(VIP Classics),C&G,Roaring Forties and Tornado.Just because the shop isn't in the US doesn't mean they don't have a rep here.The list continues:ERA makes an excellent replica,Backdraft has one (turn key minus only) and check out the offerings from Active Power too.Holman and Moody are now re-issuing their 'original' car. There's GTD,Southern(GB),Bailey Edwards and others.Do your homework, decide on what your primary need is and then draw up a list on features and price(a big consideration as well).I was not aware of the level of originality in the Superperformance cars either but it bears investigating if that is one of the main considerations for you.There are owners who like their Superperformance cars a lot.
The major item here is how much work do you want to do? Be aware a 'roller' is NOT a turn key or turn key minus(no eng/trns) and in most cases will require many hours of work to complete.Some folks learned that the hard way.It can be very rewarding though,ask some of the forum guys.There are basic kits,deluxe kits with all the trimmings,rollers,turnkey minus from many of these shops;some offer complete cars.
Finally,maybe a completed and registered 'used' car is right for you.Whatever way you go you'll find the guys(and gals) on the forum very helpful and extremely supportive. Good luck to you. A.J.

 

[Roy Snook]

The original question on this post was really asking why do individual manufacturers of monocoques not work together, in my reply I tried to answer the question based on my own experiences, the truth seems to have irritated some members which is a shame, but in my case the facts are the facts and my answer was not designed to cause confrontation but to put my point of view forward, If I state something I believe to be true and can back it up then I think it is a valid point and the roof situation/example is just such a point. The attached picture, I believe shows one of my roof skins, in Mirages shop, with several others behind (oversize due to the fact that they have been pressed from one of my panels which has been used as a buck). I think this demonstrates the sort of issue that causes the non co-operation of us mono people and as the original post intimates, if we all helped each other we could cut costs. For the information of fellow forum members I made the roof press tooling from scratch, on my CNC table, to ensure accuracy and fit, it was a lot of work and time consuming, as have all the press tools been!
Incidentally I was not going to reply to this thread until I noticed my name mentioned in Jays' kind post, but then needed to reply to correct the information.
regards to all you mono officiados
Roy

 

Hi Guys

The Roof pressing in the photo behind Roy's roof skin is one I sold to Doc Watson with my Dave Brown Tub several years ago. I was given it by Jimmy Price for helping out on his very accurate SPF GT40 (85%accurate) during development, because some of my friends had let me down on the roof pressing?

Roy you know why Jimmy sent me the roof and can rest assured that Ray has not copied your roof.

Time for a cup of tea and chill guys

Have a happy Christmas

regards

Chris Melia.

PS. Andy Booth had the second set of clevis rods of Jay, and they were excellent quality.
PPS. Some SPF GT40s will be granted FIA papers.

 

[John W]

I guess the flow of posts answers my orginal question. After a bit of spleen venting from various people it seems clear to me that the situation is unlikely to change, which I think is a shame.
The side issues seem to have been answered too which is a result, even if I have now been crossed off James' christmas card list :|

So lets all have a big virtual group hug and get back to normal.
I hope this concludes this thread as I see no reason to continue it now.


Garry, to answer your question I think (my opinion, not fact) the SPF is 85% correct. There are some detail differences which I believe are to do with manufacturing ease and to aid saleability. These are trivial details, but tell-tale signs to those who know these cars inside-out.
This may be better being taken off to another thread, else any information will just get buried in this unrelated one.
In hindsight had I known the SPF was coming out when I placed my order I may well have brought one of them...

 

[JimmyMac]

The attached picture, I believe shows one of my roof skins, in Mirages shop, with several others behind


regards to all you mono officiados
Roy

Roy,
Thank you for your so-called factual clarification. So permit me to go through this again ~

The photo which you attached shows one un-attributed roof skin on top and Jimmy Price's old roof skin below NOT SEVERAL COPIES as you stated.

And according to Chris you know the story behind Jimmy Price's roof skin ?

Then for further clarification, pray tell me that you didn't copy Jimmy's roof together with those flat packs from NZ and contract somebody else to assemble yours ?

If you must it's "Afficionado"

 

[Roy Snook]

Hi Jimmy,
thanks for clarifying the picture issue, oh, also my spelling incompetence! hope you don't mind me pointing out the spelling for chest is not cheast-see your previous post-just a bit of fun-doesn't really matter !!
I have never had a roof from Jimmy price although I did speak to him about supplying him some time ago but he then produced his own so didn't need mine.
Anyway thanks for your reply
best regards
Roy

 

[Doc Watson]

The roof is mine bought from Chris. Along with a full monocoque chassis being built by Ray, and a racing spare Mk1 rear clip from P1041 (or was it P1040) anyway its the Beulerly Yellow car (with this flu I cant be bothered to pick up my sorry ass and find out from 'ford v ferrari')

Jay it was me and Chris Melia who bought the rear clevis pins a few years ago.

Andy