Three years ago we were at a test day with my sons single seater at the start of the season, and on the first lap of the afternoon session the car suddenly turned sharp left straight into the barriers. The immediate concern over his personal safety was allayed when he emerged from the car, which was then ignominiously lifted back to the pits on the back of breakdown wagon. The next concern was why it had happened, he was very lucky to be unhurt! We found a broken rear shock absorber, and whilst discussing whether this was the cause or result of the accident, a guy wandered over and said he had seen it broken before Ian went onto the track - I THOUGHT YOU KNEW ! thanks, warning us might have saved an accident, personal injury and a lot of repair expence. So the question now is this, if you see anything that rings warning bells for any reason, whether at the track, in the workshop, or even on the FORUM, do you make the person at risk aware in some way that this may harm him, or do you look the other way and say its not your problem. OR DO YOU JUST SAY "I thought you knew, mate !
I thought you knew !!
- Thread starter wealdenengineer
- Start date
In my view it is worth making a comment – it just might save someone from getting hurt. Let’s face it, its better to be sure than sorry after the event! No one will take exception if it’s a genuine safety concern. Its worth double checking everything – even rear clip catches!!
Howard Jones
Supporter
I once straightened out a pair of bent handlebars between motos in a BIG hurry. Had to use a torch and there was just a "little" crack.
Needless to say not only was the result a lesson learned but it damn well HURT.
I could have used a "That won't work mate!" that night.
Speak up!!! and so I will. Put in a fire system! Put on positive lock rear motor cover latches! Install a "kill switch" in the ignition system!
Any others? Come on guys. I know there must be a LOT of learned the hard way on this forum. Oh and thanks in advance to the first guy who sees something I did that fits into the "that won't work mate" catagory.
Needless to say not only was the result a lesson learned but it damn well HURT.
I could have used a "That won't work mate!" that night.
Speak up!!! and so I will. Put in a fire system! Put on positive lock rear motor cover latches! Install a "kill switch" in the ignition system!
Any others? Come on guys. I know there must be a LOT of learned the hard way on this forum. Oh and thanks in advance to the first guy who sees something I did that fits into the "that won't work mate" catagory.
It would appear from the concensus of opinion on this Forum, (450 views to just 4 replies) that you believe that it is best to "look the other way - its not your problem"
Not at all Frank. i completely agree that it is worth mentioning something, just as it is worth mentioning to someone their tyre is flat, or they've left their lights on (neither are life threatening but could cause problems).
I didn't post before as I had nothing constructive to add. I'm of the opinion that if a post doesn't add any value its not worth posting. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
I didn't post before as I had nothing constructive to add. I'm of the opinion that if a post doesn't add any value its not worth posting. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Frank,
If I see something wrong, I ALWAYS speak up.
Better to be a pest, than let someone get hurt or worse.
I'm sure that the VAST majority here feels the same way.
I guess "we thought you knew" how we really felt! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Bill
If I see something wrong, I ALWAYS speak up.
Better to be a pest, than let someone get hurt or worse.
I'm sure that the VAST majority here feels the same way.
I guess "we thought you knew" how we really felt! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Bill
Frank,
I have to agree with John W, but what you have posted is a very good one. I think one of the problems lies in the fact that not so many of the forum readers get the chance to see as many "misdemeanours" as you and i and those who have posted or are about to. I,m in and around race cars and circuits almost every day of the week and the number of potentially disastrous errors i see and have commented on are to numerous to mention.
I think you must also realise as a fellow engineer that not so many people out there are as observant or understand mechanics and must be forgiven for their naivity. They are probably brilliant at something else and would be quick to pull us up on something we do not know as much about, such as knitting or nuclear fusion !!!!!!
I,m glad we have scrutineers at race meetings but even they miss some glaringly dangerous things. I have for instance two racing cars in the workshop at the moment, both of which have recently raced at home, and one abroad as well. The Lister Jaguar had NO engine mounting bolts to its nearside mounts and the Cobra has a large alloy oil catch tank, normally bolted to the chassis, hanging loose beside the sump, just holding on by its rubber breathing pipe !!!!
In the past various questions have been asked about set ups that forum members have sent pictures of, and i,m sure things have been altered accordingly. Just recently a forum member sent a picture of their build but nobody has queried a certain "problem" that WILL rear its ugly head later on, unless they have sent a private Email to that member. I will write to him with my observation but i dare not put it up for all to see because it could cause severe problems to the supplier as well.
So Frank, great post, but John speaks for the "silent" majority i think.
Regards,
Graham @ GTA Racing.
I have to agree with John W, but what you have posted is a very good one. I think one of the problems lies in the fact that not so many of the forum readers get the chance to see as many "misdemeanours" as you and i and those who have posted or are about to. I,m in and around race cars and circuits almost every day of the week and the number of potentially disastrous errors i see and have commented on are to numerous to mention.
I think you must also realise as a fellow engineer that not so many people out there are as observant or understand mechanics and must be forgiven for their naivity. They are probably brilliant at something else and would be quick to pull us up on something we do not know as much about, such as knitting or nuclear fusion !!!!!!
I,m glad we have scrutineers at race meetings but even they miss some glaringly dangerous things. I have for instance two racing cars in the workshop at the moment, both of which have recently raced at home, and one abroad as well. The Lister Jaguar had NO engine mounting bolts to its nearside mounts and the Cobra has a large alloy oil catch tank, normally bolted to the chassis, hanging loose beside the sump, just holding on by its rubber breathing pipe !!!!
In the past various questions have been asked about set ups that forum members have sent pictures of, and i,m sure things have been altered accordingly. Just recently a forum member sent a picture of their build but nobody has queried a certain "problem" that WILL rear its ugly head later on, unless they have sent a private Email to that member. I will write to him with my observation but i dare not put it up for all to see because it could cause severe problems to the supplier as well.
So Frank, great post, but John speaks for the "silent" majority i think.
Regards,
Graham @ GTA Racing.
Hi Frank,
I have to admit I took it as a rhetorical question, however it has always been my way to question something that looks not quite right, as a polite way of leading the owner/builder to reconsider the design or execution.
Of course some people can't take criticism or advice...
On the other hand I occasionally see some absolutely outstanding workmanship and engineering at car shows or cruise nights from average Joe's tolling away in the family garage. That sort of thing I always compliment.
I have to admit I took it as a rhetorical question, however it has always been my way to question something that looks not quite right, as a polite way of leading the owner/builder to reconsider the design or execution.
Of course some people can't take criticism or advice...
On the other hand I occasionally see some absolutely outstanding workmanship and engineering at car shows or cruise nights from average Joe's tolling away in the family garage. That sort of thing I always compliment.
I think that Graham (GTA917) has hit the nail on the head in his fourth paragraph. Who wants to upset a real nice guy who posts a picture for us all to see, but equally who wants to see him seriously hurt by our reticence to say someting and upset him. Tough call !!
Ross Nicol
GT40s Supporter
I have an example that supports my feeling that if you spot a possible problem with anyones car you must say something.There are too many pieces to a car and it's systems for one person to observe them in a short space of time.Scrutineers are usually charged with concentrating on one area of a car while others check elsewhere.I have just spent a week preparing my car for this weekends speed events.I replaced both front and rear brake pads yesterday and later my son asked me if I was aware the rear discs were cracked.Now I'm a pretty aware individual but my missing the cracked rotors supports my theory that you miss a lot of things and even when working around the area of a problem.So thanks to James I have new rear rotors all fitted up with new pads.I hate to think what may have taken place had he said nothing.In conclusion I wish someone had pointed out that the brake pipes on the rear of my 240z were going to be chewed up by the drive shafts and then I may not have had the roll over that wrecked the car.
Ross
Ross
[ QUOTE ]
I think that Graham (GTA917) has hit the nail on the head in his fourth paragraph.
[/ QUOTE ]
Frank, I was one of the silent majority here but if this is a real safety issue then I thought I should better pipe up.
I agree with Graham. A PM to the forum member should work best, especially if it is a problem with just the individual's own build.
However, if you have seen a safety issue built into all cars by the manufacturer (for example an interesting rear suspension set-up) there will be other owners out there with the same problem. They need to be aware.
No doubt once contacted, the forum member/owner in question will take it up with the manufacturer, and, if it is a real safety issue, the manufacturer should put it right and supply what's needed to all other owners for a 'fix'. But that's in an ideal world.
If the manufacturer takes no action after this process, then IMHO that's when the forum (and potential prospective purchasers) need to know.
My two cents/pence.
Cheers
I think that Graham (GTA917) has hit the nail on the head in his fourth paragraph.
[/ QUOTE ]
Frank, I was one of the silent majority here but if this is a real safety issue then I thought I should better pipe up.
I agree with Graham. A PM to the forum member should work best, especially if it is a problem with just the individual's own build.
However, if you have seen a safety issue built into all cars by the manufacturer (for example an interesting rear suspension set-up) there will be other owners out there with the same problem. They need to be aware.
No doubt once contacted, the forum member/owner in question will take it up with the manufacturer, and, if it is a real safety issue, the manufacturer should put it right and supply what's needed to all other owners for a 'fix'. But that's in an ideal world.
If the manufacturer takes no action after this process, then IMHO that's when the forum (and potential prospective purchasers) need to know.
My two cents/pence.
Cheers
Howard Jones
Supporter
I started comming here because I needed help. I don't think I have all of a sudden learned it all.I know some of you guys are REAL enginneers and have helped me in the past and thanks for that but we all have brains in our head and eyes to go with it. I would hate to think someone got hurt or hurt someone else because he didn't know better and no one spoke up.
Like Ron said information about GT40's is the reason for this forum and that includes safety stuff. You guys that have raced cars, SCCA etc. can really help with this. Please do.
Like Ron said information about GT40's is the reason for this forum and that includes safety stuff. You guys that have raced cars, SCCA etc. can really help with this. Please do.
So, who`s gonna be first......... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Hi Guys
one more post
Its interesting to read this thread, and note that in the past when individuals have pointed out in black and white GT40 issues, they have then been attacked.
I was attacked when I posted the original news that CAV had gone broke. I posted it to inform and protect the unaware, not to gloat.
If we attack people that have real concerns and news and try to shut them up, then shame on us. We will be the weaker for it, and the informed will stop posting and we all loose out.
One guy spent a fortune on a new unproven car and posted and posted here on the Forum about how wonderful his new car was(before he had even driven it).
Then choose to turn a deaf ear to constructive comments about foreseeable serious problems even though he had misgivings.
Then after the first drive of the new car, sold it and went off to buy a factory manufactured super car without comment? is this the final SUPPLEMENT?
your "Q"
Regards
Chris.
one more post
Its interesting to read this thread, and note that in the past when individuals have pointed out in black and white GT40 issues, they have then been attacked.
I was attacked when I posted the original news that CAV had gone broke. I posted it to inform and protect the unaware, not to gloat.
If we attack people that have real concerns and news and try to shut them up, then shame on us. We will be the weaker for it, and the informed will stop posting and we all loose out.
One guy spent a fortune on a new unproven car and posted and posted here on the Forum about how wonderful his new car was(before he had even driven it).
Then choose to turn a deaf ear to constructive comments about foreseeable serious problems even though he had misgivings.
Then after the first drive of the new car, sold it and went off to buy a factory manufactured super car without comment? is this the final SUPPLEMENT?
your "Q"
Regards
Chris.
Ron Earp
Admin
Frank, hate to digress on your post but your original post and the current direction of the thread is related.
Chris those are good points and I do remember the CAV issue. I was asked by numerous and I might add, involved parties, to shut that thread down. I was not that pleased with the reponses from CAV (none) and from some dealers (defensive) - it was in my opinion not a proper way to address a real event that affected a number of people on the forum. But, it is behind us now and the CAV dealers are here and well as is CAV (I think in the US, not certain).
I also remember the JP situation too and in some cases that should be an example of how not to play up a situation before you know anything about it. I don't think any of the parties involved in that were happy in the end. But, it would have been nice for people to have the entire story for sake of complete information.
I learned a lot from these threads and others of their nature and number one is that I stay out of moderating them for as long as possible. Let them play out, see what is said. I eventually locked the "CAV Liquidation" thread because it seemed to have run its course with Jean and John taking over the cars. But, after that one I am very hesitatnt to lock, change, delete, modify, or do anything else with a thread - let it go unless there is blatent slander, lies, or "no good" involved.
So, if there is useful information out there then share it - it is what this place is for. If you are going to post hints about something then don't post at all, that is useless to the reading body of the forum.
Just my opinionated 0.02 cents.
Ron
Chris those are good points and I do remember the CAV issue. I was asked by numerous and I might add, involved parties, to shut that thread down. I was not that pleased with the reponses from CAV (none) and from some dealers (defensive) - it was in my opinion not a proper way to address a real event that affected a number of people on the forum. But, it is behind us now and the CAV dealers are here and well as is CAV (I think in the US, not certain).
I also remember the JP situation too and in some cases that should be an example of how not to play up a situation before you know anything about it. I don't think any of the parties involved in that were happy in the end. But, it would have been nice for people to have the entire story for sake of complete information.
I learned a lot from these threads and others of their nature and number one is that I stay out of moderating them for as long as possible. Let them play out, see what is said. I eventually locked the "CAV Liquidation" thread because it seemed to have run its course with Jean and John taking over the cars. But, after that one I am very hesitatnt to lock, change, delete, modify, or do anything else with a thread - let it go unless there is blatent slander, lies, or "no good" involved.
So, if there is useful information out there then share it - it is what this place is for. If you are going to post hints about something then don't post at all, that is useless to the reading body of the forum.
Just my opinionated 0.02 cents.
Ron
Thanks Ron, What's the phrase? "Constructive criticism" that would benifit the forum more along with the inspiration and support to carry on. These are expensive and challenging cars to build, regardless of the manufacturer. Of course everyone wants the safest car possible as well.
Cheers
Cheers
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