Install question

Larry L.

Lifetime Supporter
On average, how long does it take an experienced gearhead to physically install an engine and transaxle in a GT40 and hook up all the prerequisite control cables, hoses, blah, blah, blah? (Tuning and all that 'after-the-fact' stuff aside.)

I have $10 USD riding on the answer! 'No pressure! :worried2:

Thanks...
 
To broad a question for a definitive answer. The actual engine install, dropping the engine in the car only took 15 min. A friend Lynn Miner who I helped with his install and I took a weekend to finish the wiring and mechanics. The planning and prep is another story. Assuming you have all the parts and have a plan in place a guess from a person that's done two of these I'd say 3 to 5 long days by yourself. Assuming the engine and trans are fully assembled. Don't install the headers until after the engine is in the car. We made that mistake on Lynn's install.

However it took me the better part of a week to build the plumbing (2" copper tubing) that runs from the engine to the tubs that run coolant forward to the radiator. Two days to build and install the fuel a oil cooler lines.

So you see it depends on how you define the task at hand. I spent the better part of a year (while saving money for my engine and trans) taking the car apart, plugging as many holes as I could find and weather proofing it. But that's probably just my OCD showing.

I posted much of my build and others have also. For me it was a very satisfyingly journey. I would be glad to answer any questions you have. Good luck and enjoy.
 

Mike

Lifetime Supporter
$10? Big spender Larry!

Quite some difference between hooking up an engine swap and fabrication before you can hook anything up with a new build. In the Goodwood paddock... an hour probably less for a swap. Took me a several hours but I'm slow and OCD.
 

Larry L.

Lifetime Supporter
Gents:

What I'm referring to above is just the time it takes to bolt the 'already-completed-and-waiting' engine and transaxle together...bolt 'em into the car...and then hook 'em up to their already-waiting throttle cables, shifter cables, fuel lines, water hoses, ignition/battery cables, A/C lines, remote coolers and the like. For the purposes of my bet, the "installation time" question assumes the engineering/routing/install of all those items has already been done beforehand. They just need to be hooked up.

Additionally, for the purposes of the bet as structured, installing the "bundle of snakes" is to be considered PART of the engine/tranny install procedure for what should be obvious reasons (or not!).

Me thinks y'all may be trying to be a wee bit TOO conscientious/precise/accurate here! :D
:chug:
 
Based on your 'conditions' in post #6 above...6 hours max....--Ive never done one, but based on 52 years of working on some pretty busy installs the SPF with everything ready to fit would be a walk in the park.
 

Larry L.

Lifetime Supporter
Based on your 'conditions' in post #6 above...6 hours max....--Ive never done one, but based on 52 years of working on some pretty busy installs the SPF with everything ready to fit would be a walk in the park.
Thanks for your input, sir. 'Appreciate it. ;)

Does anyone disagree with that estimate (+ or -) for whatever reason?
 

Mike

Lifetime Supporter
Your question is so vague that every answer is a stab in the dark. Has the engine already been ran in on the stand? Has the clutch already been setup? By the time you get around to installing half shafts, bleeding the cooling system, and reinstalling bonnets, you're into it at least that much, if all the other gotcha's have already been worked out. My engine went in twice and the transaxle 3 times working through figment issues. It too me a couple of weeks to wire everything up. Coolant lines were hooked up a several times to get fitment right. If you were simple pulling an already installed setup that had all the kinks worked out to say fix an oil leak, a few hours might be valid. If it's a new build it will take considerably longer to get things to a completed status. As with most things take your estimate and double it.
 
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Larry L.

Lifetime Supporter
Okaaay...at this point I'm just going to assume the question posed was too vague for all but J.M. and go with his educated guess of 6 hours...even though it means I've lost the darned bet...:undecided:

Movin' on...
 
Based upon working with Olthoff and a customer who did his own build-out I suggest that six hours to install, plumb and connect is light.

If you have every possible required part, nut, bolt and fitting I think 12-16 hours for a "plug & play" engine/trans combo is more realistic. There are some connections like the AC lines that take some time and dexterity to complete.
 
So Larry, what was your guess on the 'install time' that cost you $10.00 , PM me if you dont need the agro of others who feel your way off base.
 

Howard Jones

Supporter
I have changed a throw-out bearing in one day 9am - 4pm from start to finish alone. 1 hour break at mid session for lunch and about 4 beers throughout. I should add that I have found it far easier to pull the engine and gearbox in one unit and then work on the clutch system on the bench than try and pull the gearbox off the back of the engine in the car.

The longest/most difficult single evolution is removing the rear bodywork and setting it out on the lawn. Then hauling it back in and putting it back on the car alone.

So I would say that it is easy to install a previously installed motor/grbx in 4 hours. Nice slow beer drinking Saturday afternoon pace. Two guys that have done it before could do it in half that time working together.
 

Mike

Lifetime Supporter
Was that a SPF Howard? I found installing a little lightweight alloy 302 required a lot of tilting forward to get the engine in with the distributer in place. It would have a huge pain to have the RBT hanging off the back. On the other hand the rear clam can be removed in a minute or less.
 
Only if you put the header tubes on first. Somewhere here is a link to my 11sec GT40 engine install (time lapse) where my engine slides right in. I've done it both ways and if you install the header tubes first the engine is a bitch to get in. Looks like I found it.
http://www.gt40s.com/forum/gt40-tech-engines-induction-exhaust/32724-11-sec-engine-install.html?highlight=engine+install

We did Lynn's install (picture) first and even with two of us it was difficult. As you can see from my video I did mine by myself in just a few minutes with the transaxle in place. For me the headers were the easy part I just had my youngest son put them on. Oh ya one more thing, leave the top cross member off until the engine is in.

Sorry about all the pictures got a little nostalgic there for a moment. OMG I forgot how bright and shiny it was in the before time.

And that's all I have to say about that.

Well maybe not but it sounded good.
 

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Howard Jones

Supporter
Mike, No that's my GTD I was talking about with a R21 and a 302 (small cap MSD billet dis). You do need a engine hoist and a spreader bar so that you can get the complete assembly at the right angle. I made my spreader bar out of a piece of 1X2 steel with a couple of tabs welded on it. The front one gets shackled to the carb lifting plate and the rear one has a old school seatbelt wrapped around the end of the transaxle and the mount tabs shackled to the spreader bar.

The first time took a while to find just the right mount points but after that its the same ol song.

1. pull drain plug for coolent system and let drain while moving on the next step.
2. remove rear body and put on lawn.
3. remove carb and install carb lifting plate
4. remove exhaust collector/mufflers and headers
5. remove horse collar and suspension cross brace after detaching bottom end of rear roll bar links.
6. disconnect electrical connections, center coil to dis hv lead, starter wires, all sender signal leads, ground strap, msd cable, speedo cable, Alt cable.
7. remove clutch slave cylinder from bell housing but leave hyd hose attached. Place out of the way.
8. Remove cables ends from shifter assembly.
9. remove half shafts (both ends) and put aside.
10. remove hoses from coolant system.
11. IF my AC system was charged I would remove AC compressor and leave pump attached to hoses, push out of the way. It's not.
12. Disconnect oil lines to cooler at sandwich block.
13. attach spreader bar
14. unbolt two rear transaxle bolts and the two engine mount bolts.
15. lift complete assemble out of car and set on oil pan and 4X4 (under rear of transaxle) . All on a nice piece of old carpet.

Ya.............. I did this a few times. I would rather pull the motor to replace a water pump than try and work bent over in the cockpit and through the firewall. Taking out the interior is just about as much work anyway.

Maybe a SPF is a bit different but it can't be by much. Weight really doesn't make much difference if you have a adequate engine hoist. Getting the spreader bar to distribute the weight just right so that you can tip the front of the engine down by lifting the rear of the transaxle with one hand while jacking up the motor/transaxle assembly with the other.

One or two pumps on the jack to lift, pull the whole thing back a inch or two, repeat, wiggle it out of there and your all good. It an be done alone or like I said with a friend. Beer goes farther alone, engine comes out faster with a friend. You can try wife, but don't get mad if she can't help just revert to do it yourself mode.
 
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Larry L.

Lifetime Supporter
So Larry, what was your guess on the 'install time' that cost you $10.00...
My guess was roughly two working days (or about 16 hrs) given there were 'no-distractions-or-detours'...and given one didn't see 'Murphy' dropping by every time one turned around (you know...having crap like the ONLY bolt in the universe designed to attach part "A" to part "B" being dropped, hitting the floor and bouncing or rolling into the only floor drain within 10 city blocks like it had been laser-guided. That sort of thing).

His bet was 10 hours...which was obviously closest to yours.
 
Ah yes, the dreaded "floor drain" black hole. And of course, the "need 10 bolts and have 9" scenario. Plus the "I cut this hose three times and it's still too short" conundrum.

I am pretty sure that Karma will ensure that you will not have every item you need despite weeks of list surveys and dry runs.
 

Larry L.

Lifetime Supporter
I am pretty sure that Karma will ensure that you will not have every item you need despite weeks of list surveys and dry runs.
Tell me about it. 'Applies to darned near ANY project...including 'fabing' copper drain lines for the high pressure relief valves on a couple of hot water heaters. Ask me how I know...

'Going back to the freakin' hardware store tomorrow...:mad:
 
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