Kiwi scratchbuilt

[Woody]

Hi Russ
Sorry to hear your still having problems with your engine. Correct me if Im wrong but is your 351w got 1/2" head studs? All other small blocks have 7/16" studs which would be sufice at 85 Ft Lb but if you have 1/2" ARP studs ( and there are three different grades the most common is 190,000 psi tensile) they would need to be 100-105 Ft-Lb. One small trick Iv'e used is to increase the torque on the inside or longer studs by 5 or so Ft-Lb this evens out the clamping pressure because the longer studs will stretch further at the same torque. Sometimes the book will give you a upper and lower value eg: 80-85 Ft-Lb use 80 on the short and 85 on the long.
Also I have used Fel-Pro gaskets for years ,and seldom ever retorque, with good sucess. I hope there's something in there that may help.
Woody.

 

[flatchat(Chris)]

Have to agree with you there Pete ---is what we learned on our 302s --once we got the heads to seal it became a pleasure to go racing--- full noise for 10+ laps and a nice 90° C water temp

 

[Randy V]

I use the same methods Pete.. Plus when using head bolts I put teflon thread sealant on all head bolts, not just those that see water. That way I get a more consistent torque.

302's have been 80# top and 70# bottom for my engines for years. 351s - the same type of increase. No retorque - no issues..

 

[Russ Noble]

Thanks for all the comments guys.

I have decided to upgrade to the Dart studs for this Dart block. Unfortunately the only place I seem to be able to source them is Summit and they have an expected shipping date of 18 Feb. I have also found in the past that the date can be put back too, so not all that certain that the date is reliable.

Does anyone know of a speed shop anywhere that has them currently on the shelf? They are a special longer stud, undercut, with a ballended spigot on the bottom of the lower thread. Part Number 66130121. Apparently not listed by ARP, but made by them for Dart.

 

[Woody]

Russ
You say the stud is extra long can you give me dimensions, lenght and diameter.
If you dont have any luck with your local speed shops
Some of the engine shops up here carry some stock, I can ask you may get lucky.

 

[Jac Mac]

Russ's existing studs are/will be 5" ( long-inlet side ) & 3.25" ( short-exh side ).

He requires 5.600" ( long ) & 3.850" ( short ).... the extra 0.600" is on the UNC end of which approx 0.350 is extra thread & the remaining 0.250" is the 'bullet' machined on the end. These studs are designed to bottom out in the blind block holes.
A total of twenty studs in all with internal hex for fitment, & they should come complete with 12 point nuts & hardened washers to match. IIRC the 12 point nuts are 5/8" socket size.

 

[Russ Noble]

Jac Mac's got the lengths right. Diameter is ½". The 12 point nuts are 9/16" socket size

 

[Kevin Box]

Russ have you tried ARP ???

I sent them a query on your behalf ???

 

[Russ Noble]

Thanks Kevin,

I've just located some at Car Shop Inc in Illinois. High Performance Parts & Accessories - Car Shop Inc. Just got to hear back about freight. Cheaper than Summit too and Summits date has just extended out a another week......

 

[Woody]

Had a good ring around the main shops up here and no luck Sorry

 

[Rick Muck- Mark IV]

I have used the Car Shop several times and often they had in stock what others did not. Also they have located or drop shipped parts to get them to me in a timely basis. Good people and fair prices.

 

[Russ Noble]

Thanks for that Woody.

Rick, that's reassurring, it's always an act of blind faith when getting stuff from someone on the other side of the world that you haven't dealt with before.

Shipping is under way, USPS Priority air freight, and I should have them in my hot little hand within two weeks. That means I will miss the remaining SFOS rounds this year but should be OK for the club meeting beginning of March.

 

[Leon]

Hi Russ,.......Thats a real bummer, I was hoping to see you in action at the Levels and I'm sure you were looking forward to being there. I'm in ChCh at about 2:30 0n Friday, I was hoping to meet you and maybe Lim and Leon while I was down there is there a chance we could catch up on the Friday night or possibly the Sunday night when I get back from Timaru. My flight to New Plymouth leaves just after Lunch on Monday so I'm around for a little while.

Cheers Leonmac

 

[Russ Noble]

Leon,

I'll definitely be going down to Levels for a look see, but not sure at this stage whether Sunday only or both days. Haven't got any accomodation sussed yet for Sat night. Original plan was to doss down in my bus at the track, but since I'm not racing I'll just slip down in the MX5. Got some family things that had been abandoned in favour of the racing that I now should really be doing on the Sat instead.......

Will definitely still be in Chch Friday, so maybe a catchup Friday evening, and I'll try and get Lim and Leon on board for that too. Do you need pick up from the airport?

Cheers,

Russ

 

[Leon]

Hi Russ.........Quick note, I'm just heading out the door from the Desert back to Muscat this morning and flying out thurs morning. I have My Mate picking me up from the Airport so will give you call when I'm in ChCh.

Cheers Leonmac

 

[Russ Noble]

That'll work. Best phone option is business 384 9023. I'm thinking of doing a meal for everyone at my place Fri night, can include your mate. Where we can talk BS and see the car. If that suits.

 

[Ross Nicol]

Russ
This may not be the news you want to hear, but tonight I've been researching
head studs for my project and I checked Summit for the Part number you listed 66130121. The application notes list these studs for use with Dart 355-T6 Aluminium Alloy engine blocks only. The technical notes that came with my Dart 302 Sportsman small block call for use of 351W 1/2" stud kit. Also says " It is preferred that a bullet be machined on the end of the head stud where it bottoms in the block, to centre the stud before tightening. I have ordered ARP 154-4203 (12 point nuts).
They are listed for 351 Windsor and these are probably the ones, you should use, just have to have the bullet machined on the block end.On a positive note you should be able to pick them up in Un Zud.

Cheers Mate
Ross:thumbsup:

 

[Russ Noble]

Thanks Ross,

The 154-4203 are what I had been using too, in accordance with the notes that came with my 351 Sportsman! They are too short for the holes in the Dart block. I actually machined up some spacers to go in the bottom of the stud holes for the studs to snug down on to. Now I'm struggling to get them out...... LOL.

I had seen that 'alloy block only' note you refer to, but the 66130121 are definitely the ones I require, and are winging their way towards me complete with tracking # right now!

I thought you had a Ford Motorsport block? Mind you, you've got that many blocks and engines that I've lost track. Oh to be a rich Ozzie! If you've got a Sportsman you may need the 66130121s. Measure your hole depth particularly the outer rows and I'll let you know in the morning how they compare to mine.

Cheers, M8.

 

[Ross Nicol]

Russ
My Dart block is at the machine shop so I'll ring them in the morning for a depth measurement of the threaded deck holes.

Ross

 

[Jac Mac]

Give the studs a single 'light tap' on the nut end with a punch & light hammer to 'unseat' the block threads & compress your spacer before trying to remove.