LS1 engine in a GT40

[Andrew Robertson]

Having offended the purists for years turning up at the track in a Jag with a big block chev in it on a trailer towed by a Jag with a small block chev in it in it I say embrace the technology and marque that most suits your objectives.

Cheers, Andrew

 

[JimmyMac]

Ok, so don't all flame me at once....

Have any of you guys got experience of fitting, or running an LS1 (or later) engine in a GT40.

Its just a thought, albeit slightly alien to the original concept of the GT40, and i'd appreciate your thoughts on all things practical as well as esoteric! :lipsrsealed:

Cheers,

Graham.

A 4-bolt 289 Windsor with Webers.
Otherwise it's bit like giving the wife a nylon fur coat.

 

[Ian Anderson]

I have a "wierd" one anyway

Car is a DAX - they are about 1 - 1.5 inches taller than the original but being 6'3" I can get in this car and to the un initiated it looks just like every GT40 - purists will pick out the differences immediately.

I bought it as a part built kit and it came with a 3.9 Rover Derrived engine (Actually sorced from Morgan) and then the 1st builder sent it away and spent many thousands of GBP taking it to TVR race spec. It also runs the hotwire EFI system (Same as Morgan, Range Rover etc via a plenum.

If I were doing it from scratch I'd go for a Ford 302 or similar but until this engine goes bang it will do nicely and always raises questiona as people think it is an Ali after market Ford block with trick Efi.

Also do you need 500 hp? My Rover derrived job is running at about 250hp (flywheel) and can scare me witless and hold it's own against most Ford engined replicas. I've seen above 140mph on it - twice as it is difficult to find any track with enough straight.

3 weeks back a group from the GT40 Enthusiast Club did demonstration runs at Dunsfold Aerodrome (Where Top Gear is Filmed) and I got just over 140, most others were there or there about but Chris Hale showed the way with about 160mph (He runs a Chev 5.7 with 4 barrel injection)

Choice is yours as it is your car

IAn

 

[Keith]

Having offended the purists for years turning up at the track in a Jag with a big block chev in it on a trailer towed by a Jag with a small block chev in it in it I say embrace the technology and marque that most suits your objectives.

Cheers, Andrew

I have to say that one of the very best hybrids I ever drove on the street was a MKII Jaguar with a Ford 302 in it. The motor sat low down and was a lot shorter than the XK and it handled like a dream. It went like shite off a shovel...

 

[Dimi Terleckyj]

Hi Graham

Even though I have no plans to sell my 40 I know that for resale value the 40 with the Ford motor will have the better sale price than the 40 with the Chev (or other) motor.

Time and time again I have heard the comment " it's a shame it has a Chevy motor" when people are viewing a 40 without a Ford motor that is for sale.

Dimi

 

[Cliff Beer]

It's obviously a personal choice and Chevy makes great engines (many would argue the current engines are better than Ford) just like Ford.

If you're kinda nostalgic, like I am, then you put a Ford engine in not because you're a slave to originality but because your nostalgic vision is rooted in some historical basis - HF II getting snubbed by Enzo then coming back and whupping his f-cars at The Big One (LeMans)....that sort of thing. I realize that often times the nostalgic story has been subject to some dramatic license, but, the story holds together and is compelling. It's just not as compelling if it has a Chev engine - why would HF II be putting a Chev engine in his GT40 race cars?

That said, do whatever feels right to you. My next hot rod project is going to be putting an all aluminum 400hp+ SBF in the back of a 911. That'll be a fun track day with the porsche club.....

 

[Ron Earp]

That said, do whatever feels right to you. My next hot rod project is going to be putting an all aluminum 400hp+ SBF in the back of a 911. That'll be a fun track day with the porsche club.....

Those are great projects, have fun!

Unless you are going over the top with your engine build I doubt you'll see much difference in cost with a Ford or Chevy at "normal" or even slightly built hp levels. A 400 hp Ford or Chevy can be built from scratch for a few $1000 using all Ford or Chevy parts, depending on the motor.

For high end motors I agree with some of the others than an LS7 is damn hard to beat. But, you're in the UK - anything to do with an American V8 is going to be dear, Ford of Chevy, including the LS7. Chevy/Ford V8s in mild tune ar almost free here in the US but over there....

I still want to open a US V8 sales company there in the UK. The prices you fellows have to pay for most stuff is down right obscene. Seems like there would be a way to buy in the US at wholesale prices, ship to the UK, pay the VAT, offer a decent price to buyers and still make good money without charging the prices I normally hear about.

Hell, be different. Put a MOPAR in it!

 

[Keith]

Mopar - ulp.....:stunned:

But, if you want to be

Really really different:

:laugh:

 

[Graham]

All you guys have very valid points, and for that i thank you.

Ron - you are so right about the cost of US Iron over here in good old blighty, it is obscene and does form a large part of the decision making process in terms of bang per buck. I for one would applaud you if you could import engines over here. There are some specialist guys over here that do a great job, but boy they ain't cheap!!!

One of the kickers for me was the point made by Dimi, which is a fair comment regarding resale values. Nobody ever expects to sell their pride and joy, but sometimes life gets in the way and before you know it , your '40 is heading out of the garage on someone elses trailer... :sad:

Maybe i should start a new thread that goes "How do i get a Ford V8 that is mega reliable, powerful, and is capable of passing petrol stations with ease"...

Now that would be perfect... Discuss!

 

[Russ Noble]

Mega reliable and powerful is just a matter of having the right bits. Passing petrol stations with ease, is just a matter of having a mega tank!

 

[Graham]

Mega reliable and powerful is just a matter of having the right bits. Passing petrol stations with ease, is just a matter of having a mega tank!

... is possibly the perfect answer :rifle::laugh::laugh:

 

[Graham]

to get the "reliability" and "driveability" factor right, do you guys recommend EFI????

(Cue another bunfight)... :laugh:

 

[Ron Earp]

Maybe i should start a new thread that goes "How do i get a Ford V8 that is mega reliable, powerful, and is capable of passing petrol stations with ease"...

Now that would be perfect... Discuss!

Not hard.

You use a late model (86-95) 5L (302) engine with stock roller cam. Lift is around 0.444, not a lot of duration but enough. You'll use a small carb and a torque producing intake with relatively long runners. Probably use stock heads, E7 castings. You'll get around 225 hp, plently, and it'll get good gas mileage. Heck, in a 3200 lb Mustang this was capable of 20-24 mpg on the highway. In a lightweight 40 it'll do better.

The best thing about it is these engines are available here in the US , used, from $100-$300 in serviceable condition.

Now, this isn't a high RPM piece. About 5200 RPM is all it'll want to see, or thereabouts.

MM&FF recently did a low bedget 5L build up. Their goal was the most hp for the least money spent. Used but good 5L take out motor, $100; some new Pro Comp aluminum heads off Ebay, $700; new cam; $159, Funnelweb intake, used, $175; and gasket set. Motor wasn't opened up other than the head swap and it made 399hp on the engine dyno, probably translates into around 275-300ish at the wheels, maybe, and it was cheap, just over $1000. Won't get great gas mileage though.

You won't get anything as cheap and reliable as a simple manual choke 4bbl with an MSD ignition. After living the nightmare of converting Jeff's TR8 to Helltech EFI, and him not racing all year, carbs all the way is my vote. He was forced to run the stock Strombergs via class rules but at least the car ALWAYS ran and started. Not so with EFI, at least the setups like you'll be using on the 40 since there isn't a "GT40 OEM EFI" package for you to slap on. On the other hand, get a good professional like Paul Thompson, using a good system, to put it on for you and tune it and you'll be fine with EFI. Choose your EFI carefully....

 

[Graham]

Not hard.

You use a late model (86-95) 5L (302) engine with stock roller cam. Lift is around 0.444, not a lot of duration but enough. You'll use a small carb and a torque producing intake with relatively long runners. Probably use stock heads, E7 castings. You'll get around 225 hp, plently, and it'll get good gas mileage. Heck, in a 3200 lb Mustang this was capable of 20-24 mpg on the highway. In a lightweight 40 it'll do better.

The best thing about it is these engines are available here in the US , used, from $100-$300 in serviceable condition.

Now, this isn't a high RPM piece. About 5200 RPM is all it'll want to see, or thereabouts.

MM&FF recently did a low bedget 5L build up. Their goal was the most hp for the least money spent. Used but good 5L take out motor, $100; some new Pro Comp aluminum heads off Ebay, $700; new cam; $159, Funnelweb intake, used, $175; and gasket set. Motor wasn't opened up other than the head swap and it made 399hp on the engine dyno, probably translates into around 275-300ish at the wheels, maybe, and it was cheap, just over $1000. Won't get great gas mileage though.

Ron, thats an interesting point.

Only problem is that my daily drive is a 996 Turbo S, making 450 BHP, and i'm used to it. I don't say this to brag, only to make the point that I would want my '40 to have roughly the same level of performance.

Any ideas on that one (my US V8 engine knowledge is so close to zilch that you must treat me as a total Newbie on this issue...)

 

[Jac Mac]

Ron, thats an interesting point.

Only problem is that my daily drive is a 996 Turbo S, making 450 BHP, and i'm used to it. I don't say this to brag, only to make the point that I would want my '40 to have roughly the same level of performance.

Any ideas on that one (my US V8 engine knowledge is so close to zilch that you must treat me as a total Newbie on this issue...)

Thats a pretty tough act to follow, Im used to people asking how to improve power etc, not reduce it to those levels, I can now understand why your looking at a GT40.

 

[Graham]

Thats a pretty tough act to follow, Im used to people asking how to improve power etc, not reduce it to those levels, I can now understand why your looking at a GT40.

Hehe, the sweet smell of sharp wit...:thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[Brett James-McCall]

Not hard.

You use a late model (86-95) 5L (302) engine with stock roller cam.

Depends Ron. If Graham is building new, he will also need to consider the good old IVA rules and emissions. If he gets a pre 1 Aug 1975 block, then he doesn't have to worry (bar a smoke test) at the moment.

Brett

 

[Rick]

J Salmon: Maybe you should consider a Porsche varient in the 40, then you'd really have a WINNER?????

 

[Keith]

Ron, thats an interesting point.

Only problem is that my daily drive is a 996 Turbo S, making 450 BHP, and i'm used to it. I don't say this to brag, only to make the point that I would want my '40 to have roughly the same level of performance.

Any ideas on that one (my US V8 engine knowledge is so close to zilch that you must treat me as a total Newbie on this issue...)

A GT40 replica is as near as dammit 40 year old technology which cannot under any circumstances compare with a car that has been constantly developed over the last 100 years (that's what it seems like anyway).

Around 300-350 hp at the wheels of a GT40 replica will be an ass puckering experience for you after the Porsche and require a completely different style, road or track. Sure, you could use more power in a straight line, but putting it to the ground? That is the challenge.

You would do well to read Ross Nicols race track experiences with his well developed replica trying to compete with the dreaded 'P' cars, and he certainly does not lack horsepower.

American V8's were the most wonderful engine idea on the planet. Simple, cheap and a few bucks on after market bits will up the HP faster than any other type of engine to a point. Even after almost 25 years I could assemble a SBC or SBF blindfold but it is the machining skills that are scarce and expensive in the UK for US iron.

By the way, you might feel that a 'crate' engine, i.e. the LS series you mention may be an economic way of getting the power you desire at the right price, but even if it was a Ford factory crate engine, you would really need to factor in a complete tear down, check, double check, rectify errors, clean and reassemble by someone who is very familiar with the breed.

It could be a very expensive mistake to believe that a factory crate engine is a plug & play device.

I do believe that a member on here had a significant failure with an LS crate motor, but I don't believe we know what the outcome was although he may well have posted it somewhere.

First thing I would do is source a really good US V8 builder in the uk and involve them in the process from the very beginning.

Anyway, good luck in your search.

Here are some UK turnkey engine prices. Don't know the company personally though...

Ford V8 engine builders suppliers tuners 351 302 247 408 492 strokers: British American Engines

 

[Graham]

Keith,

Thats sound advice, many thanks.