Porsche 918 order book open!

[TrevS]

Time to sell a kidney and put the family on ebay as Porsche have announced that the 918 spyder can now be ordered for a bargain £678,000.

The best thing though is it does 199mph and yet can manage a staggering 94mpg, crazy!

Trev

 

[Graham]

MUST...HAVE...ONE....slobber slobber

 

[Pat Buckley]

Why, just the fuel savings alone will pay for........errr...not much.

 

[Erich]

The best thing though is it does 199mph and yet can manage a staggering 94mpg, crazy!

Trev

...for 16 miles with a top speed of 94 (on all electric power)! Exciting - I don't think so.

While I am not convinced about hybrids in general (as long as we produce equal or higher amounts of waste products, CO2, etc. generating the electricity and technology), these high-performance hybrids seem even "stranger" to me. Other than adding 218 hp via electric motors to the 500 hp generated by the conventional gas engine, and being able to call it a green-tech hybrid car, what is the real world practicality and purpose for the end user?

I bet if you take away all the weight and complexity (and resources used to produce) of the electric portion of the vehicle, the 500 hp wouldn't be much less effective (acceleration, top-speed, and real-world mileage).

Seems to me, more than anything else, these are trendy, green-tech idea platforms for manufacturers to show off (a bit). Longer term, there may be some real-world applicatons of what is learned from these experiments.

Of course, what I really don't get is why somebody would spend that amount of money on this car. I like the way it looks, but you can get many, very high-performance vehicles without having "to stand in line" and getting a "concept-testing platform".

Well, all the above won't matter much, as my finances won't make me a potential buyer anyway...

 

[Ian K]

Actually, the 78 US mpg comes from hybrid mode - the 16 miles @ 94 mph is pure battery power, and as such, yields "infinity" mpg ...

Ian

 

[Damian]

Eric we beat this topic to death a little while ago. Most agree with what you posted but some one here are FANATICAL about it. The ash to ash ratio of this thing I am willing to bet is no more better than a prius which has an ash to ash ratio similar to an H3 Hummer or suburban depending on which study you read!!!

 

[Pete McCluskey.]

Basically it's pandering to the tree hugging water melons,(some of them are rich too) it's carbon footprint when you take into account the entire manufacturing process is no less than your average V8.

 

[Paolo-LoveGT40 Modelworks]

btw is wonderful...

 

[Bill Cooke]

Looks good however I'll take the new Cayman R. I'm not a tree hugger so the hybrids don't do a thing for me. If i want a flex fuel mode of transportation I'll buy a horse.
Bill

 

[Ian K]

Oh, I totally agree WRT the total cost to the environment. Hybrids are not as green as they are billed to be.

But, that doesn't change the fact that, to the layman end user, the 918's 78 mpg comes from hybrid operation, whereas the 16 mile range comes from battery power only. And, in this economy, mpg is the bottom line to many ...

Ian

 

[Damian]

^ while agree about the MPG being important to some; the guy that can afford this is not even remotely concerned about that.

 

[Erich]

But, that doesn't change the fact that, to the layman end user, the 918's 78 mpg comes from hybrid operation, whereas the 16 mile range comes from battery power only. And, in this economy, mpg is the bottom line to many ...

Ian

Thank you for the correction - 78 mpg. I agree with Damian that fuel cost is not going to be much of an issue for the buyer of this at $875K. What do you think the real-world, actual mpg will be? I am pretty sure NOT 78 mpg - I was trying to relate the "real-world" application to the theoretical, statistical and political one.

 

[Dalton Veitch]

Porsche has had to line up with other manufacturers. Even a water cooled engine is unacceptable to a Porker purist. And to stay in business, they believe they have to offer a cheap sports model, a four wheel drive, a four door sedan, and a hybrid that's greenish, like everyone else.
Personally I really dislike hybrid cars, but as Damian said, this topic has been beaten around the block a few times. Of course, as the various Governments behave increasingly like a nanny and force us to have what they decide is good for us, we may be thankful for sporty green cars if the others are forced off the road.

 

[Chris P.]

As an engineer, the allure of a hybrid is simple: more efficient use of energy. People need to understand that there is X amount of energy locked up inside a gallon of fuel. Just throwing this fuel into a cylinder and making a car go throws away a lot of that available energy. As you all know, hybrids make use of combustion engines and electric motor/generators. If you are going to expend energy to get the car moving, it would be assinine to leave so much of it on the table in the form of kinetic energy that can be recuperated instead of throwing it away as heat. What most people don't understand is that a combustion engine does not linearly use its fuel throughout the rpm and power range. Where a combustion engine is inefficient, an electric motor may make better use of stored energy. Having said that, not all hybrid platforms are the same. Some are series, some are parallel. Some are full hybrids, some are not. What is wrong with trying to advance our technology on the matter? It's not going to happen without selling some product guys. You think Daimler had it easy back in the 1800's trying to market his noisy, dirty, expensive contraptions? The horse and buggy sure worked plenty fine for centuries, why change? :laugh:

 

[Graham]

As an engineer, the allure of a hybrid is simple: more efficient use of energy. People need to understand that there is X amount of energy locked up inside a gallon of fuel. Just throwing this fuel into a cylinder and making a car go throws away a lot of that available energy. As you all know, hybrids make use of combustion engines and electric motor/generators. If you are going to expend energy to get the car moving, it would be assinine to leave so much of it on the table in the form of kinetic energy that can be recuperated instead of throwing it away as heat. What most people don't understand is that a combustion engine does not linearly use its fuel throughout the rpm and power range. Where a combustion engine is inefficient, an electric motor may make better use of stored energy. Having said that, not all hybrid platforms are the same. Some are series, some are parallel. Some are full hybrids, some are not. What is wrong with trying to advance our technology on the matter? It's not going to happen without selling some product guys. You think Daimler had it easy back in the 1800's trying to market his noisy, dirty, expensive contraptions? The horse and buggy sure worked plenty fine for centuries, why change? :laugh:

Chris, you're absolutely right. The technology devised from these systems is what we will see in cars in 20 years, but MUCH cheaper, more efficient, more robust and more available.

We shouldn't poo poo these steps forward. They WILL become something, even if it is a branch of the evolutionary tree that fails, they are still very relevant.

 

[Ian K]

^ while agree about the MPG being important to some; the guy that can afford this is not even remotely concerned about that.

I disagree - there are plenty of mutli-millionaires who believe that they are doing the right thing by buying a hybrid.

Ian

 

[Damian]

Right as it sits next to the limo in their 7 car garage. Now I am sure that there are some that truly buy into this (as some on here have) but they are the exception and remember an exception only tests a rule!!!

 

[Ian K]

Thank you for the correction - 78 mpg. I agree with Damian that fuel cost is not going to be much of an issue for the buyer of this at $875K. What do you think the real-world, actual mpg will be? I am pretty sure NOT 78 mpg - I was trying to relate the "real-world" application to the theoretical, statistical and political one.

Cruising around on the highway @ 70 mph without heavy use of the throttle will probably yields a number very close to 78 mpg (if not more - my '95 Acura Integra GSR was rated at about 29 mpg highway - on one trip to Las Vegas, with four adults, and cruising at 80 mph, I crested 40 mpg).

Ian

 

[Chris P.]

Right as it sits next to the limo in their 7 car garage. Now I am sure that there are some that truly buy into this (as some on here have) but they are the exception and remember an exception only tests a rule!!!

I don't understand this mentality (if I'm reading that passage correctly.) So, either you go all out and be as inefficient as you possibly can as a human being, or you go all out and be as absolutely efficient as possible? Why the extremes? What's wrong with having fun with a gas guzzler but then offsetting that some amount with a more efficient version of transportation? I don't understand you people. How many of you are even qualified to make such "draw a line in the sand" conclusions about this technology?

So - lay it all out on the line for us. What makes hybrid vehicles so bad? Please... the floor is open.

 

[Martin]

Chris, I agree with you.
I own two V8 engined gas guzzling cars if you include my GT40 which is not on the road yet. These cars do/will do very little mileage compared to my everyday car which is a very fuel efficient small engined diesel.
I don't feel that I need to justify my enjoyment of the V8 cars as their effect on the planet is tiny. I probably do less than 3K miles a year.
My everyday car, I do 12K miles a year minimum so this car needs to be greener if I am to maintain any moral high ground when discussing my carbon footprint.
I don't see a problem with this mentality. Offsetting and moderation. I have no issues with Hybrids either. The more they catch on, the less the costs of producing them will become and the net effect will be positive for us all.
As long as they don't legislate all petrol only vehicles off the road !