Rcr 40-31

Chris Kouba

Supporter
Thanks for the suggestion Dave. I am emissions exempt due to it being registered as a '65. I am quite pleased with the performance of the Pro Flo package- well, except for the current issue. I have a couple ideas for troubleshooting it and will see where they lead.

I the meantime, it was Alignment Day #2. After the initial adjustment in preparation for the Avons, I wasn't happy with the on-center feel of the steering and wanted to dial back in more caster, and the rear toe needed some adjustment. Alan graciously lent his fronts to me again for fitment and I set the car up and then tore it down.

First step was to remove the springs and shocks to set the car on blocks at ride height: 3.75" for the front, 4.5" for the rear.

Using centerline marks on the underside of the chassis I used a builder's laser to project the centerline further forward and aft:

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Referencing off the laser, I measured out 42" on each side and set up a datum with strings at hub height:

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From here, things were unbolted and adjustments were made. At this point, the front lowers are as far forward as I can get them and the uppers are centered in their range. I also dialed in a little more camber while I was at it:

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The rear was then torn down and adjustments made. I narrowed the track to give a little more margin to the tires in the bodywork, then took out a bit of the camber and set the toe:

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It took a number of iterations but in the end I running zero toe in front and 3/16" total toe out in the back. Camber settings are 1.3° in front and about the same in the rear, although I had to use a different gauge which I am not certain is 100% accurate and repeatable. Those were the figures I was shooting for though.

So far, I only have one short tour around the block (I was able to get the car running again by replacing the blown fuse). I was very gentle on it but it seemed to run well. I will need a minor adjustment to center the wheel but I am happy with it initially. I'm not sure that I am happy with how much rear track I took out. I may take another run at this once I have new tires on as I really liked the arches I had. All in all, it doesn't look bad now though, just not quite the same as it used to...

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Actual ride height still needs adjustment in the front, it will come down ~1/2" from this pic. I have access to corner weight scales and will be giving that a shot in the next week or two.
 

Chris Kouba

Supporter
At the wheel rim. I was told 2nd hand from a reliable source that 1/16" out per side was factory recommended.

Something tells me community consensus is significantly different... What's the group recommendation?

edit: to correct 1/8" TOTAL toe, 1/16" out per side was the recommendation
 
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Randy V

Moderator-Admin
Staff member
Admin
Lifetime Supporter
At the wheel rim. I was told 2nd hand from a reliable source that 1/16" out per side was factory recommended.

Something tells me community consensus is significantly different... What's the group recommendation?

edit: to correct 1/8" TOTAL toe, 1/16" out per side was the recommendation

When using inches or millimeters for toe settings, it has always been measured at the diameter of the tire for consistency’s sake. Well, that’s the way we were taught in tech school back in the late 60s and I’ve done it that way ever since.
There have been many arguments as to where to take these measurements - the industry has now migrated to using degrees of rotation instead. Still, the effective amount of toe is not trasmitted to the ground via the rim, but the tire.
For what it’s worth - on a car with a power to weight ratio like the GT, I would set the rear toe to as close to zero as I could get it. You will be able to induce throttle oversteer a little less easily, but still easier than a heavier car.
Others will likely have different opinions..
 

Chris Kouba

Supporter
Disconnected the dead calibration module and replaced the ECU. Knocked out 40 trouble-free and glorious miles this morning. I am assuming the issue was in the ECU at this point. I need to log some more time to build trust and confidence, but I hope this is a done deal.

Had to swing by my parts guys and it took me til this trip to realize they even have the store in the correct livery:

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Chuck

Supporter
That is a big job Chris! Nicely done.

Question: what was the final caster setting on the front and did it improve the self centering feel? I am getting ready to tackle the same project on mine.
 

Chris Kouba

Supporter
Hey Chuck,

I don't have a proper caster gauge so I am only guessing, but I have the lower arm all the way forward and the upper arm with two washers on each side. Once I get the tires, I may see if I can move the upper back at least one more. That should get it to about where it was before. You already have the Avons, so you're aware of any potential clearance issues. With Alan's tires on, they were closer to the sills than I would consider appealing, but didn't rub in a static situation. I am convinced I can fit them on at this point and will work within the adjustment range to tweak steering feel.

It has a bit more centering effect after the recent work, and the feeling improved. It doesn't fully self-center like it used to but it's definitely better.

The bad and completely unrelated news is the ECU swap did NOT fix the issue. I got it warm enough this morning, then shut it down to fuel up, and upon restarting it, the stutter returned. This is pointing me toward the alternator now, or the voltage regulator, so pulled it out for testing/rebuild. We shall see if that solves the issue.
 

Chris Kouba

Supporter
The good news: it was a whole $36 to get my alternator innards re-done.

The bad news: didn't fix the issue.

I warmed it up in the shop without issues, so I put it back on the ground and took it around the block.

It ran fantastically for a while, but when things got truly up to temp and the engine bay was warmed up (not just the coolant temp but a proper heat soak on the engine bay), the stutter came back, identical to what it was prior to the ECU swap and voltage regulator re-do.

I am frustrated. The stutter is too consistently rhythmic to be an intermittent connectivity issue. Maybe one of the sensors has gone bad? I know they are OEM components but I don't remember their origin. Time to get the instructions out and refresh my memory.

Open to any suggestions (if they are constructive!).
 
Did you check grounds, or any loose wires? I had a chaffed ignition wire awhile back, and it would only cut out once the wires got warm and on bumps...once warm, the wire would relax and all it needed was a bump to touch the chassis and ground out that 1 cylinder intermediately; drove me nuts trying to find it.

good luck, these issue can be really frustrating.
 

Randy V

Moderator-Admin
Staff member
Admin
Lifetime Supporter
The ignition issue sure sounds like one that could be related to an overheating hall effect sensor amplifier. In Small Block Ford “speak”, this would be the TFI module in the distributor. GM has similar issues with their sensors.
If you have ready access to the amplifier, you might want to get a can of pressurized air for computers. Inverted, it will spew out fluid and air that is hundreds of degrees sub-zero and will instantly chill the sensor. If it starts right away, you will know you found it...
Sorry about the bad news on the rear alignment. You truly would not like your current rear tow setting when entering a corner and applying throttle...
 

Chris Kouba

Supporter
Thanks Randy, that's a lead I can work with. I'm assuming you're referring to get it running and heat soaked and stuttering, and then hit it with the compressed air to re-cool it?

I believe I do have an external amplifier and if it's the component I believe it is, it is readily accessible to experiment.

As for the rear toe, I am not worried at all about it. That is work I can easily do (compared to chasing down this motor issue). It's a hobby and why I have the car in the first place. It would have been nicer if I knew the recommendations I got weren't appropriate to begin with but live and learn.

I did have a great time yesterday getting heat into the motor though. I've heard these cars do 95 in 2nd gear...
 
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Chris Kouba

Supporter
No work on the car but got it out last night to have a going away dinner with Alan with the wives. His car was already on its way to SC so no big final drive together, and then they leave in the next two weeks or so. I'm bummed they'll be gone but I know that Alan has already posted here and gotten replies from GT contacts in and around Greenville, so I trust they will be in good company.

On our way downtown, they ended up behind us at a traffic light:
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About to head home:
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Chris Kouba

Supporter
The ignition issue sure sounds like one that could be related to an overheating hall effect sensor amplifier. In Small Block Ford “speak”, this would be the TFI module in the distributor. GM has similar issues with their sensors.

Randy,

I think I'm buying you and your wife dinner next time I run into you.

I had been casually keeping an eye out for an amplifier replacement, but they're not cheap (>$200) and more disconcertingly, no one had them on hand. After a little more sleuthing, I came to discover that Edelbrock discontinued makng them. I was torn regarding what to do but never made up my mind.

Last week I decided I wanted to go for a drive on my 50th birthday, so I put just a little more effort into some sort of resolution. I stumbled randomly upon a post where someone said they disassembled the Edelbrock piece to uncover the GM OEM 4-pin amplifier which Edelbrock covered up and upcharged for. I took mine apart and brought the removed piece down to my local "real" parts place, where the guy at the counter looks and says, "Oh, that's a module from a Vortec 350. Get him a late 90's Suburban part."

They even had one on the shelf!!!

I was home in 5 minutes and out the door in the GT in about 10 more. I drove over to Cobra Butch's house without issue. We went for a lap around the neighborhood without issue. I drove it home without issue. I set up with him to do 50 miles on my 50th birthday.

I got up this morning, had breakfast with my wife, cruised over to Butch's, then to Steve's, and then proceeded to log over 50 trouble-free miles. I genuinely think it's fixed. Gorgeous weather, fine roads, great company, and one hell of a car. The AC is cool, the motor is singing... the car is phenomenal!

I have a number of other things going on in my life where I have minimal bandwidth to apply to resolving this, and to have the GT back in the active fleet makes me ecstatic.

Happy birthday to ME!!!

AM-JKLXmfs3LfgXZiiXHAD0Ed2RIDoZgwVzelRnvuMsF5IL1TdbDyUDBfXj-Unhbs6p37mSJHNEBzOyTK4q1cxpW9-MTdHaLASucgdlP8gShzhGgqoxdBzofPC5Z103uGEkxAQbZjlKQCr3iWGDL7ZLtNA0yDQ=w1920-h934-no


Didn't take any on the move, but definitely had a great morning!

Chris
 
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