CAV or SPF GT40?

[Jimmy P]

Pat, I don't know whether it's the photographic version of 'foreshortening' but in your second photo of 'originals', the car appears to be a left hooker, which basically means.....????

IMHO, Keith has summed it up pretty succinctly for me......if we're driving ANY version of this brilliant car in the USA (or other country's) and its LHD center shift then we're driving a fake, copy, duplicate, tribute, recreation, facsimile, clone, continuation, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.

A crease here, a funky rear there, an odd wheel opening here, less the original interior there, huge motor here, upgraded brakes there..........The fact is all but a few of us have the $$ to buy an original so we have to "settle" for a copy and yes maybe some copies are better then others but they are still copies and frankly I love my copy as much as the next guy loves his. If you want a "tool room" copy of the original you'll have to pay $500K+ for what is indisputably (IMHO) the best "copy" on the market.

As Rick Muck pointed out whatever you have if its what you like then its the best there is.

But I agree with many others...this has been a very entertaining thread!

 

[Keith]

Not to mention educational Jimmy! :thumbsup:

 

[steve]

Sirs All,

I (and presumably others) watch keenly. There is a lot to be learned here and really appreciate the substantive exchange of information.

Regarding the appearance of the MK I's aft body shape vis-vis the CAVs/ SPFs and others (RCR) et al: it seems on the pre-1970ish MK Is they were of differing shapes, leading one to think there were different molds at different times (?).
Specifically the shape of the rear wheel well opening, at varying degrees of ovalness/ellipticity, or flattened radius, seems to really throw off the perspective on the other body lines/ heights?
The SPF near round wheel well opening lends itself to an appearance of a higher gunnel height, which may be a visual aspect as opposed to a measurable difference?
Does the SPF MK I aft body have an specific historical engineering antecedent ?
It seems the GT40s presently running on passport in Europe mostly run the oval/ellipitcal wheel well opening which combined with their generally lower ride height look very different from an SPF.
Perhaps I've been looking too hard!, back to lurking.

Thank you
Steve

 

[Keith]

Most of the replica/clone/continuation manufacturers seem to claim that their bodies were splashed from an 'original' and as we have seen, there's a fair amount of differences in 'originals! I may be wrong, but I would guess that there were several sets of moulds used to construct the original bodies.. I can't believe they were all produced from the same mould. The resulting capacity for differentials just went exponential

Of course one of the biggest differences is that there were no moulds of the spider, period. Perhaps a buck, or would they have tooled up for a pressing for such a short run?

 

[Mike Drew]

All,

Further to my recent post on the matter (and comparing shapes of originals versus CAV and SPF, so admittedly perpetuating thread drift), I found an excellent photo of the yellow car I was referring to, with the distinctly odd body. First, check out this one:

And then this yellow one:

Admittedly the lighting makes it a bit more difficult to spot the difference, but different they are. The top one is (presumably) original while the bottom one was completely fabricated from whole cloth, around a comprehensively wrecked original chassis, I assume using kit car bodywork. Among other things, the nose is probably a good six inches shorter, and lower, and the tail is quite a bit lower too.

 

[Walter Williams]

Wow...still beating this one to death.. "i assume using kit car bodywork" based on what research? "the nose is probably 6 inches shorter" another assumption.

This just keeps getting better

 

[Jac Mac]

Just pics. Enlarged yellow and flipped, both pics now have same w/base in photo. Note yellow car has small amount of lock applied.

 

[Pat]

As far as the yellow car, the advert where you got the picture went on to say " The car was then showed to Ronnie Spain, author of the book “GT40: An individual history and race record”, who immediately recognised the car and stated it in writing as the original, ex-Jean Blaton car."

The ad Race Car for Sale – 1968 Ford GT40 Le Mans car

The blue car I posted is a replica sold by Hillbank the pictures on the wall should have given it away. They use it as their web header. Superformance | GT40

I've added a CAV with lines as that appears to be the cool thing to do. I had to correct for the added spoiler plate on the back. Otherwise it would have had the unfortunate appearance of a Superformance

It would be fun to get an ERA, Bailey, Tornado, RCR, DRB, GOX, Gelscoe, etc. etc. pics with lines as well. Perhaps then it will appear this whole thing is silly.

 

[Rick Muck- Mark IV]

Most of the replica/clone/continuation manufacturers seem to claim that their bodies were splashed from an 'original' and as we have seen, there's a fair amount of differences in 'originals! I may be wrong, but I would guess that there were several sets of moulds used to construct the original bodies.. I can't believe they were all produced from the same mould. The resulting capacity for differentials just went exponential

Of course one of the biggest differences is that there were no moulds of the spider, period. Perhaps a buck, or would they have tooled up for a pressing for such a short run?

The SPF MK I body was taken off the FAV MK I of a one Adrian N. late of that F1 circus.

And yes, the steel spiders on the Abbey Panels cars were done off matched metal tools in a honking big press. As are the SPF spiders done on an ex-GM SA press of some 600 tons capacity so I am told. Neither of which you would want to stick a finger (or other fleshy appendage, turgid or flaccid) into.

Everyone sing along now, "The best GT40 is the one you like and can buy"........................................some of you were off key!

 

[Dave]

Here's an RF side shot

 

[steve]

,

Rick, which GT40 was that which SPF used please? (still in learning phase)

-Here is Gelscoe modifying a rear shell for and early prototype appearance;
-an original early car at LAX,;
-an original GT40 which I believe is post prototype;
-#40 original GT40 post prototype;
-These are somewhat different from an SPF.
Lance provided the pic of the Linden, 4 tail light, narrow SPF 40 which is about as close as one can order.

Steve

 

[Keith]

The SPF MK I body was taken off the FAV MK I of a one Adrian N. late of that F1 circus.

You mean his Gelscoe? :lipsrsealed:

 

[Fran Hall RCR]

Keith , behave, you cheeky chappy

I can absolutely say that the RCR body moulds were pulled from an original car, we also have the three width tails and all of these flares were also from original cars. The narrow body with twin tail lights we have too, again from an original.

There are many nuances between original cars but the front of the rocker, the shape of the wheels arches, lack of ridge in the roof, small drain hole under the rear glass, to name a few all show originality on RCR bodies.

 

[Keith]

Hooray! :thumbsup:

 

[Stephen Ducker]

Can't believe no ones arguing about roof vents yet! (missed opportunity !).

Early, late, Mk2 & Mk3. plus the genuine cars that have lost them or had them altered over the years.

Regards Steve

 

[Mike]

I think if everyone came to their senses and just agreed that SPF cars are the most original... even more than the originals, then we could all get along and just move on. This bickering is unfortunate...

How an original should look. Notice the original body lines.

 

[Ian Anderson]

This SPF? / CAV?/ GTD? / RCR?/ KVA? / DAX?/ RF?/ GOX? / Gelscoe ok?

 

[Walter Williams]

MIKE

YOU'RE A FUNNY GUY

"SPF cars are the most original... even more than the originals"

MORE ORIGINAL THAN THE ORIGINALS?????

 

[Mike]

Yes, it is common knowledge that the originals were copies of an SPF car.

 

[Jac Mac]

Better to look for an original then... should have most of the bugs ironed out..