F1 2008
- Thread starter David Morton
- Start date
Pat Buckley
GT40s Supporter
I guess I'm an optimist.
I am now expecting that McClaren will prevail on appeal.
I guess I will never learn.
I am now expecting that McClaren will prevail on appeal.
I guess I will never learn.
WTF? I've just got up after a really late night watching Spa live. Whats the story here???? Are you saying that Kimi has won even though he couldn't handle the conditions and didn't finish the race??? Or have they given it to Massa for some spurious reason?
Great race though but I guess we all know theres one rule for Ferrari and another for the rest of the field!!!
Pat Buckley
GT40s Supporter
Correct - spurious reason.
Massa was awarded the victory after LH was docked 25 seconds for the alleged advantage that was gained when he cut the chicane to pass the Kimster. Even though he backed off and allowed Kimi to pass.....
Massa was awarded the victory after LH was docked 25 seconds for the alleged advantage that was gained when he cut the chicane to pass the Kimster. Even though he backed off and allowed Kimi to pass.....
Pete McCluskey.
Lifetime Supporter
I thought if you went into a chicane too hot and straight lined it, as long as you backed off and redressed the situation as LH did there was no penalty. Guess I'm wrong again.
I think this is similar to an incident 3-4 years ago at Fuji, where Alonso cut the corner, allowed the other driver to overtake, but only by enough to give him an excellent tow which allowed an overtake at the end of the straight. The argument later was that even though he went back a place, it still was considered an advantage because he was positioned for the aerodynamic advantage. Hamilton seems to have done the same, conceded the position, only to get an excellent tow into the straight for the overtake.
I think a 25 second stop-go penalty is too harsh though as in Alonso's case he was asked to let the other driver pass him again and then it was race on - only about a 5 second penalty in that case... I suppose Kimi had already crashed by then so really it should have been a moot point and results left as is...
Great racing and tactics by Renault and BMW at the end with the intermediates.
I think a 25 second stop-go penalty is too harsh though as in Alonso's case he was asked to let the other driver pass him again and then it was race on - only about a 5 second penalty in that case... I suppose Kimi had already crashed by then so really it should have been a moot point and results left as is...
Great racing and tactics by Renault and BMW at the end with the intermediates.
Yup Pete, you're failing to take into account this observation I saw, attributed to your compatriot....
"Wow, Paul Stoddart of Minardi was right. FIA REALLY does stand for Ferrari International Assistance!"
Rob
Lifetime Supporter
I am not a LH fan, but I do believe he is a gentleman and a sportsman. This is wrong. The fact that KR crashed out should make the situation a totally mute point, as PM was too far back to have been relevant. Not sure I get this one......
But aside from this........ that was probably the most fun race to watch all season.
But aside from this........ that was probably the most fun race to watch all season.
Pete McCluskey.
Lifetime Supporter
I just had a look at the incident and it looked to me that Kimi forced LH wide???
A very tough call.
Russ, I always thought Stoddart had a good grasp of the politics.
Bill, the Renault Inter decision would have been because of our old mate David Morton and Racemet.
A very tough call.
Russ, I always thought Stoddart had a good grasp of the politics.
Bill, the Renault Inter decision would have been because of our old mate David Morton and Racemet.
I suspect LH & KR were both going to struggle to make the turn, given how late they both braked.... Certainly wasn't as bad as HK giving MW a touch up earlier on.
David Morton
Lifetime Supporter
Hi Pete,
The updates and live feed from Meteo France stopped at 1455 until 1515 and the that last update came on at 1518. I think the race finished at 1527 so the intervening period was 'dead reckoning' on previously known M.L.A. (Mean Line of Advance) of rain clouds. If the race had more than 5 laps to go I think full wets would have been a better choice but a choice to go to inters with one lap was a very difficult call. Pat Symonds [justifiably] thought it had merit and made the call as Spa is a law unto itself and the
rain in Le Combes, Rivage, Pouhon and Malmedy became more of a deluge on the last lap. I wish it had arrived just that bit sooner but that's racing.
The Renault of Fernando Alonso was showing more promise in the 'dry' in this race I thought.
I wonder if the live feed from MF stopped in the Ferrari garage?
There was also some talk on Italian TV that Alonso has signed a deal with BMW.
And Ferrari. And Honda.
Dave M
The updates and live feed from Meteo France stopped at 1455 until 1515 and the that last update came on at 1518. I think the race finished at 1527 so the intervening period was 'dead reckoning' on previously known M.L.A. (Mean Line of Advance) of rain clouds. If the race had more than 5 laps to go I think full wets would have been a better choice but a choice to go to inters with one lap was a very difficult call. Pat Symonds [justifiably] thought it had merit and made the call as Spa is a law unto itself and the
rain in Le Combes, Rivage, Pouhon and Malmedy became more of a deluge on the last lap. I wish it had arrived just that bit sooner but that's racing.
The Renault of Fernando Alonso was showing more promise in the 'dry' in this race I thought.
I wonder if the live feed from MF stopped in the Ferrari garage?
There was also some talk on Italian TV that Alonso has signed a deal with BMW.
And Ferrari. And Honda.
Dave M
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F1 is just silly now.
They want more excitement and passing... unless it involves someone trying
to get one car ahead of another one...
I saw nothing dangerous. I don't think Kimi can be blamed for what happened either
really, I think both behaved pretty well.
Hamilton gave the lead back and there is no way he gained an advantage (ie
enabling his repass) in doing that as he had to slow to drop behind Kimi, any slipstream would have been better if he'd just followed him through.
It was obvious that either Hamilton or his McLaren were better in the damp during that crucial part of the race.
Once again, what happens on the track is less important than what happens
off it.
The whole circus is so contrived, it's more like wrestling every day. Put
it on an oval (or "ring") and instead of "turn one" and "turn two" you
could have "the red corner" and "the blue corner". Wouldn't that be great?
"And now Ladies and Gentlemen, entering "the ring" in "the blue corner" Dan
Dastardly and his Toro Nero" (the bad guy's car has to be black).
Maybe it's simpler than that - Someone who shall remain nameless smells badly of Nazi, Ferrari is Italian... hmmm... Yes! Massa is short for Massalini! Hamilton is b, is b,
is obviously the bad guy, and you can't get much more Aryan looking than Kimi...
- It's all becoming clear!
Kubica better watch out is all I can say...
Tim.
They want more excitement and passing... unless it involves someone trying
to get one car ahead of another one...
I saw nothing dangerous. I don't think Kimi can be blamed for what happened either
really, I think both behaved pretty well.
Hamilton gave the lead back and there is no way he gained an advantage (ie
enabling his repass) in doing that as he had to slow to drop behind Kimi, any slipstream would have been better if he'd just followed him through.
It was obvious that either Hamilton or his McLaren were better in the damp during that crucial part of the race.
Once again, what happens on the track is less important than what happens
off it.
The whole circus is so contrived, it's more like wrestling every day. Put
it on an oval (or "ring") and instead of "turn one" and "turn two" you
could have "the red corner" and "the blue corner". Wouldn't that be great?
"And now Ladies and Gentlemen, entering "the ring" in "the blue corner" Dan
Dastardly and his Toro Nero" (the bad guy's car has to be black).
Maybe it's simpler than that - Someone who shall remain nameless smells badly of Nazi, Ferrari is Italian... hmmm... Yes! Massa is short for Massalini! Hamilton is b, is b,
is obviously the bad guy, and you can't get much more Aryan looking than Kimi...
- It's all becoming clear!
Kubica better watch out is all I can say...
Tim.
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"Ferrari team principal Stefano Domenicali was thrilled with the turn of events, however, saying: "I have often said the race is not over until the official results are published and that was the case today.""
The above attitude and interference by suits is why the sport is dying. Who amongst the audience gives a monkeys about "success" achieved like that?
Gentlemen, start your lawyers! pffft
Tim.
P.S. Anyone else find LH's Dad a bit creepy?
The above attitude and interference by suits is why the sport is dying. Who amongst the audience gives a monkeys about "success" achieved like that?
Gentlemen, start your lawyers! pffft
Tim.
P.S. Anyone else find LH's Dad a bit creepy?
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We lads are to stupid
'He' will never win a world championship on 'his' car
this series is about Ferrari and nothing else.........what a shame
i stopped watching F1 when Ronnie Peterson died,than again when Senna died,but what they did yesterday is enough for me
F1 is definately over and out for me
'He' will never win a world championship on 'his' car
this series is about Ferrari and nothing else.........what a shame
i stopped watching F1 when Ronnie Peterson died,than again when Senna died,but what they did yesterday is enough for me
F1 is definately over and out for me
Doc Watson
Lifetime Supporter
FIA.... Ferrari International Assistance........
Just to add insult to injury..... there is a chnce that the FIA will throw out any appeal bassed on the grounds that the official rulling was a Drive Through Penalty.
Obviously that couldn't be served so in these cases they can give up to a 25 second penalty.
The Drive Through Penalty can not be appealed against..... frankly this is so clear cut it's untrue..... i'm not a Hamilton fan boy, the guy's got skills and McLaren is my home team.. but i like to see a fair race / championship i'd be exactly the same no matter who the FIA tried to do this to... i'd love it to go to the wire and it still has that chance, but not like this.
Obviously that couldn't be served so in these cases they can give up to a 25 second penalty.
The Drive Through Penalty can not be appealed against..... frankly this is so clear cut it's untrue..... i'm not a Hamilton fan boy, the guy's got skills and McLaren is my home team.. but i like to see a fair race / championship i'd be exactly the same no matter who the FIA tried to do this to... i'd love it to go to the wire and it still has that chance, but not like this.
Pete McCluskey.
Lifetime Supporter
It seems to me that the F.I.A. does not like two drivers fighting for position and they certainly do not like overtaking. KR pushed LH wide, but both drivers were fighting pretty hard but fair. IMHO LH gave back his advantage, and should not have been penalised. The slipstreaming argument is BS because the closer the car behind gets to the one in front the more the turbulence from the lead car defeats the down-force of the following car.
LH out braked KR into La Source and won the race. I'm off to watch MotoGP.
LH out braked KR into La Source and won the race. I'm off to watch MotoGP.
