Gullwing Door Conversion

[Randy V]

Rene -
Thanks for posting that... I seem to recall the Periscope rear view mirror which that car has.. Interesting indeed!

I must say that while I will retain the conventional doors on my GT40, the notion of the Gullwing door (when tastefully done) may have been an option I would have considered earlier on in my program...

 

[René]

Rene -
Thanks for posting that... I seem to recall the Periscope rear view mirror which that car has.. Interesting indeed!

I must say that while I will retain the conventional doors on my GT40, the notion of the Gullwing door (when tastefully done) may have been an option I would have considered earlier on in my program...

even the early (that gt40 looker Isdera was from 1969 I believe)
Isdera's have periscope view, its a strange brand that make's very fast cars but very rare too.

like this 112i the mirror on the roof/door

Isdera Commendatore 112i (1993) - Blog

they even have wing engine-hoods

it only needs a yet engine :idea: then it fly's

they made some strange and also some beautiful cars.
interesting stuff.
but I will not disturb this thread to much ;-)

 

[Randy V]

((Heavy sigh))

Life is just too short - what with so many beautiful cars.....

 

[Phil]

Heinrich:
Nice work on your doors, and quick progress for sure. I can't see what actuators you are using on the doors, but I am assuming they are the linear type with bi-directional powered movement.
Just a thought, I just helped a friend with a Lambo replica, and the doors were suspended with gas springs, and it was necessary to pull them down quite rapidly to get the doors to latch and compress the weatherstripping. I see from your text that you are using the actuator to pull in the doors, and we solved his problem with a pair of latches from a Camaro rear deck. The latch catches about 1 1/2 inches out, then has a small motor to pull the panel in. When released they open like any other door latch and extend themselves for the next closure. All the switching is on the latch, and they can be electrically released. This solved the problem of having to pull the doors down hard to properly latch.
Good luck whichever way you go
Cheers
Phil

 

[Bill Musarra]

Phil,
Do you have any pics of the setup of your friends car? Or company used, part #s/model. That could be a cheaper way out.

bill

 

[Phil]

Bill:
No photos but I have the info at my shop, the same latch was used on some Cadillac trunk lids and some other GM vehicles. I will post the info tonight.
Meanwhile try this link on Ebay.

TRUNK LATCH HATCH PULL DOWN MOTOR ASSEMBLY Convertible - eBay (item 300517100369 end time Feb-18-11 16:09:16 PST)

Cheers
Phil

 

[Heinrich]

Hi Guys

Bill thanks for the awesome pics, good to see and learn from. The periscope mirror is interesting and so is the engine compartment... what they wont think of next.

Phil, just looked at those hinges, they seem an option but conserned about the size as one will have to mount in the door and at this stage I am working on trying to do curved glass that slides down as I now have no locks or handles obscurring the travel. Still in early stages and busy moulding some spare perspex to a radius of 545mm which per our sample/testing may work. I will have to have a small cill and a A window in the front but if it works should be able to wind the window down some 80% plus. Trying to find a window winder with a very small bottom rail and minimal mechanism at the bottom so that I gain the travel down - I guess this maybe a new thread in due course !

The doors are coming on slowly but surely, busy with glasswork this week and should have one door hopefully at primer stage this weekend. It is linear actuators with settable travel on them.

Regards
Heinrich

 

[Ian Anderson]

Morris Minor used very simple and small units

Morris Minor 1098 2dr L/H Window Regulator, (1966). on eBay (end time 05-Feb-11 13:58:37 GMT)

Ian

 

[Bill Musarra]

Phil,
My only concern with the pull down unit is how would you open the door under power failure or side impact. I realize that the regular mechanism would have its problems as well, but I would like to know how this mechanism would function. We had the old Ford 57 hideaway hard top that did the same thing for securing the hardtop to the widow frame. That one truly locked it down, and required the motor to release it.
I did some searching on the scissor/Lambo door opening mechanisms. What I found was this: Manufactures of vehicle specific direct-bolt on vertical car door conversion systems also known as Lambo Doors, Lambo Door Kits, Lambo Doors Conversion Kits, Lambo Door Hinges, Lambo Style Hinge Kits, LSD, VDC, VDI, VDC Kits, VLS, Scissor Doors, Wing with this video:Vertical Doors Inc direct bolt-on kits for a gratuitous video go here.Vertical Doors Inc direct bolt-on kits
What I liked here was the fact that the doors can be opened either way and you keep the original door opening mechanism.Their magic door opening system could easily be adapted to the door handles as a trigger.
For another company and look, go here:Bolt- On Lambo Doors - Vertical Door Kits - Suicide Door Kits - Gull Wing Door Kits
Just Google or Bing "scissor doors"
Bill

 

[Phil]

Heinrich,
Space is always a problem inside the doors, and there is a pretty good inward curve involved towards the top of the door so I can see you have a big nut to crack there with the glass.
I have seen some window regulators that use a track with a cable drive from the bottom, but if memory serves me they are designed for a flat glass application.
It will be a real engineering job fitting all that up for sure.

Bill:
The latches will release mechanically without power. There is a mechanical release on the latch and a micro switch that is held open by the latching loop or post. When the latch is released the switch closes and extends the latch to another limit switch. If there is no power the latch simply releases and does not extend itself.
We used the release solenoid on the latches as my friend had a remote that would operate these, but we also ran a cable to the rear wheel house and hid it so that it could be pulled to release the door if power was lost.
I realize these latches are considerably larger than most other types, and they may be difficult to locate. We mounted the latch on the chassis at the rear of the door and had lots of room, probably not an option on a 40 as Heinrich mentioned with the sill dimensions, and if you needed to operate the latch with a door handle mechanism it would necessitate mounting it in the door anyway which takes up more space, although it would be at the bottom to pull the door down.

Good luck with your doors Heinrich, and keep posting the photos as you go.
Cheers
Phil

 

[Dalton Veitch]

I'd like to see a thread following your window development, please.

 

[Joe Grenier aka bobo]

for a compact regulater use the early VW jetta unit it is cable operated and very small

 

[Ian Clark]

Assuming the purists have left the building, I have to say fantastic work! About the windows, hide a philips screw driver somewhere, worst comes to worst you remove the window. Not getting out of the car won't be a problem unless it's upside down, so don't let David Letterman drive it, ok. Cheers

 

[Jimmy P]

Ian, the purists are still here but I like what Heinrich is doing. Should be very cool. You staying warm up there?

 

[Ian Clark]

Hi Jimmy, I'd be happy to ship you some snow my friend! Over the years I've had broaden my idea of what a GT40 replica should be.

Although the majority of my parts are brand specific to the CAV GT, parts are made for other makes. We have a lot of original GT40 parts on hand and access to everything else.

So I serve the spectrum from original Ford GT40s to... well, it hasn't happened yet, but I suppose - Fibrefab Avengers. Anything I can do to give the car owner more enjoyment from his GT40 is the goal, challenging sometimes but always worth it.

Back to the Gullwing doors, had Franco Sbarro done it to an original car, featured it at the Paris International Auto Salon, would the mod be more acceptable today?

He did do a power window conversion on a GT40 by the way, which was displayed at Paris. Can't recall the year but I saw the doors in Ken Atwells garage back in 1996 as he supplied doors to convert the car back to stock.

Cheers

 

[Heinrich]

Hi Guys

Good to see the banter going ! To answer some of the last posts, the actuators I have checked and where I have them now seem to be the best and well out of the way. I have hung the doors more times than I can remember and each time getting in and out after screwing in the hinges, the more than satisfied I am with the ease of access...

We have glassed the steel frame into the door and now getting stuck into the body work and making sure of getting good fits. The guide pins that will be installed will assist in seating the doors nice and snug, so thus no latches required. Still working on the release pins from the rear just incase of a power failure, but will be easily solved.

On the sliding windows, last night tried to reshape a spare set of perspex windows with a heat gun over a mould to use as a template to work out the precise location of the slot that will be required in the door - not successfull - will have to get the wife out of the house and anex the oven !

The plan is to try and get the slot as close as possible to the edge. The first problem is the back side of the door has the indent for the air scoop to the rear, so there goes about 15-18mm. The principle is to try and get a constant curve piece of glass (can not find some one in South Africa that will do cown shape) as it will assist with the sliding movement.

I have found a site www.electric-life.com that does make curved glass electric window mechanisms, but need to study and see how much space it will take up at the bottom. Will keep you posted as I eventually make up a template and cut the slot with mock up slides and then finally decide.

Thanks for all the feedback, support... much appreciated. Attached some pic's of the steel now glassed into the doors.... and a pic of my last project now taking the back seat - 1939 Willy Overlander Coupe.

Regards
Heinrich

 

[René]

ooh, thats a nice car too, a hot-rod

I also have seen some sports car with a very small window which can go up and down within the rest of the window, so you can make a fixed window with a small window mechanism within it at the rear-bottom side, it then slides into the rest of the window in a H profile...I see if I can find a sports car with that type of window to show what I mean

edit to change the profile window strip.

 

[Integrator]

I am in the process of doing a gullwing conversion on my GT40. I have the Autoloc kit, hinges and actuators. Has anybody done this before?

I have cut the spider so that the top sections of the door are symetrical and will start with the steel reinforcement to support the hinges. The doors itself at the old hinge point has also been trimmed so that the door can close from the top and not catch against the windscreen pillar.

With the actuator, no locks are required and thus frees up space in the door to see if a smart window system can be used?

Will post pic's as I venture on.

Very good idea

 

[René]

not precise that what I meant but you got the idea of that little elec window in the big window.

here you can see also how they did their door

now I try to find that other car with the window a bit different and not a gulwing door car I believe.
and I don't mean the :amborghini Countach which also have a small window in a window.

 

[René]

ah, found the type I meant

its the sort of the Mclaren F1 side-windows.

does not need much room in the door me thinks with such small window.?