Road Charging petition

Keith

Moderator
This has been running for some time now and has just started gaining momentum. I just heard on the news that there are now 150 signatures a minute going on.

Currently, there are just over a million signatures to this and already the Govt are running scared of the issue. It was deliciously described by a journalist today as: The Poll Tax on Wheels! Brilliant! (This was the tax system that helped to bring Thatcher down, for the benefit of non UK members)

Tories have already pledged to scrap the idea and so I think that finally, the down trodden much abused peasantry are making their voices heard...

It's about time. It's only taken a thousand years for these buggers to take any notice of us.....
 

Keith

Moderator
David Morton said:

Wow! Well spotted Dave. These buggers will destroy almost everything that we can take pride in, and they've got to go some - need at least .5 mil before they'll take notice and so far only 8,500 or so but we've got until July. Will get it distributed.....rockonsmile

I notice Brown has got time to promote the World (soccer) Cup coming here no doubt heavily subsidised by the British taxpayer - who needs it?
 

David Morton

Lifetime Supporter
se è buono per il morale, il divertimento, o sexy, i politici lo proibiranno.
Unless it's football or the preparing us for the debacle of debt that will be the olympics.
 

Keith

Moderator
David Morton said:
se è buono per il morale, il divertimento, o sexy, i politici lo proibiranno.

Look, I know you like him and all that but isn't that better said in a PM? :o
 

David Morton

Lifetime Supporter
I 'tried' to say if it's good for your morale (read morals?) Sexy or funny then our government will ban it.
Sort of lost in translation ?
Jesus, I hate soccer,synchronized swimming and funny walking but thats going to be shoved down our throats once this Olympic thing bankrupts us.
Anyway guys - if you've got a UK postcode and havent signed up for these petitions - please do it and tell everybody in your house no matter how old (or young) to do it as well. For the youngsters it will affect them sooner than they think.
Dave M
 
Hi Guys

this government has lost control, last weekend two Essex towns on Saturday night had one Police man on duty for each town, and they were sat behind desks inside their respective Police Stations. They were looking after the security of 70,000 residents between them?

As this government was elected as being strong on policing and security?

Mathematically if this was mirrored across the country we would only need 2000 police men on the night duty. Then say three shifts a day + 25% on leave or sick giving a total police force of just 10,000 Police for the entire country. I say well done to the Police chief in Essex please share your management skills with
John Read then he would not need to build all those new prisons.

It could be of course that this incredible saving on man power is being redirected in paying for the overspend on the Olympics.

The lunatics are now truly running the asylum.

regards

Chris.




Police officer's numbers for the UK.


United Kingdom 149,012
North East 6,859
North West 17,296
Yorkshire and the Humber 11,234

East Midlands 8,490
West Midlands 12,429

East 9,703
London 25,581
South East 15,381
South West 9,576

England 116,549
Wales 6,927
Scotland6 15,149
Northern Ireland 6,710
 

David Morton

Lifetime Supporter
Sad but true. Here in the Thames Valley area it's not even policemen in the station but civilian clerks. The police stations are shut from 17:00 hrs. and they've all gone home.
What is especially strange is that whenever the weather is nice, the plods are all out doing speed traps - many on overtime.
It's pointless complaining - your card is marked if you do.
 

Ian Anderson

Lifetime Supporter
For those of you without a UK address to sign the petition herewith the answer from President Blair!

I read that although 1.8million signatures were attached he will go ahead and it will happen - just not on his watch!

Ian



E-petition: Response from the Prime Minister
The e-petition asking the Prime Minister to "Scrap the planned vehicle tracking and road pricing policy" has now closed. This is a response from the Prime Minister, Tony Blair.

Thank you for taking the time to register your views about road pricing on the Downing Street website.

This petition was posted shortly before we published the Eddington Study, an independent review of Britain's transport network. This study set out long-term challenges and options for our transport network.

It made clear that congestion is a major problem to which there is no easy answer. One aspect of the study was highlighting how road pricing could provide a solution to these problems and that advances in technology put these plans within our reach. Of course it would be ten years or more before any national scheme was technologically, never mind politically, feasible.

That is the backdrop to this issue. As my response makes clear, this is not about imposing "stealth taxes" or introducing "Big Brother" surveillance. This is a complex subject, which cannot be resolved without a thorough investigation of all the options, combined with a full and frank debate about the choices we face at a local and national level. That's why I hope this detailed response will address your concerns and set out how we intend to take this issue forward. I see this email as the beginning, not the end of the debate, and the links below provide an opportunity for you to take it further.

But let me be clear straight away: we have not made any decision about national road pricing. Indeed we are simply not yet in a position to do so. We are, for now, working with some local authorities that are interested in establishing local schemes to help address local congestion problems. Pricing is not being forced on any area, but any schemes would teach us more about how road pricing would work and inform decisions on a national scheme. And funds raised from these local schemes will be used to improve transport in those areas.

One thing I suspect we can all agree is that congestion is bad. It's bad for business because it disrupts the delivery of goods and services. It affects people's quality of life. And it is bad for the environment. That is why tackling congestion is a key priority for any Government.

Congestion is predicted to increase by 25% by 2015. This is being driven by economic prosperity. There are 6 million more vehicles on the road now than in 1997, and predictions are that this trend will continue.

Part of the solution is to improve public transport, and to make the most of the existing road network. We have more than doubled investment since 1997, spending £2.5 billion this year on buses and over £4 billion on trains - helping to explain why more people are using them than for decades. And we're committed to sustaining this investment, with over £140 billion of investment planned between now and 2015. We're also putting a great deal of effort into improving traffic flows - for example, over 1000 Highways Agency Traffic Officers now help to keep motorway traffic moving.

But all the evidence shows that improving public transport and tackling traffic bottlenecks will not by themselves prevent congestion getting worse. So we have a difficult choice to make about how we tackle the expected increase in congestion. This is a challenge that all political leaders have to face up to, and not just in the UK. For example, road pricing schemes are already in operation in Italy, Norway and Singapore, and others, such as the Netherlands, are developing schemes. Towns and cities across the world are looking at road pricing as a means of addressing congestion.

One option would be to allow congestion to grow unchecked. Given the forecast growth in traffic, doing nothing would mean that journeys within and between cities would take longer, and be less reliable. I think that would be bad for businesses, individuals and the environment. And the costs on us all will be real - congestion could cost an extra £22 billion in wasted time in England by 2025, of which £10-12 billion would be the direct cost on businesses.

A second option would be to try to build our way out of congestion. We could, of course, add new lanes to our motorways, widen roads in our congested city centres, and build new routes across the countryside. Certainly in some places new capacity will be part of the story. That is why we are widening the M25, M1 and M62. But I think people agree that we cannot simply build more and more roads, particularly when the evidence suggests that traffic quickly grows to fill any new capacity.

Tackling congestion in this way would also be extremely costly, requiring substantial sums to be diverted from other services such as education and health, or increases in taxes. If I tell you that one mile of new motorway costs as much as £30m, you'll have an idea of the sums this approach would entail.

That is why I believe that at least we need to explore the contribution road pricing can make to tackling congestion. It would not be in anyone's interests, especially those of motorists, to slam the door shut on road pricing without exploring it further.

It has been calculated that a national scheme - as part of a wider package of measures - could cut congestion significantly through small changes in our overall travel patterns. But any technology used would have to give definite guarantees about privacy being protected - as it should be. Existing technologies, such as mobile phones and pay-as-you-drive insurance schemes, may well be able to play a role here, by ensuring that the Government doesn't hold information about where vehicles have been. But there may also be opportunities presented by developments in new technology. Just as new medical technology is changing the NHS, so there will be changes in the transport sector. Our aim is to relieve traffic jams, not create a "Big Brother" society.

I know many people's biggest worry about road pricing is that it will be a "stealth tax" on motorists. It won't. Road pricing is about tackling congestion.

Clearly if we decided to move towards a system of national road pricing, there could be a case for moving away from the current system of motoring taxation. This could mean that those who use their car less, or can travel at less congested times, in less congested areas, for example in rural areas, would benefit from lower motoring costs overall. Those who travel longer distances at peak times and in more congested areas would pay more. But those are decisions for the future. At this stage, when no firm decision has been taken as to whether we will move towards a national scheme, stories about possible costs are simply not credible, since they depend on so many variables yet to be investigated, never mind decided.

Before we take any decisions about a national pricing scheme, we know that we have to have a system that works. A system that respects our privacy as individuals. A system that is fair. I fully accept that we don't have all the answers yet. That is why we are not rushing headlong into a national road pricing scheme. Before we take any decisions there would be further consultations. The public will, of course, have their say, as will Parliament.

We want to continue this debate, so that we can build a consensus around the best way to reduce congestion, protect the environment and support our businesses. If you want to find out more, please visit the attached links to more detailed information, and which also give opportunities to engage in further debate.

Yours sincerely,

Tony Blair
Further information
Both the 10 Downing Street and Department for Transport websites offer much more information about road pricing.

This includes a range of independent viewpoints, both for and against.

You can also read the Eddington Report in full.

You can reply to this email by posting a question to Roads Minister Dr. Stephen Ladyman in a webchat on the No 10 website this Thursday.

There will be further opportunities in the coming months to get involved in the debate. You will receive one final e-mail from Downing Street to update you in due course.

If you would like to opt out of receiving further mail on this or any other petitions you signed, please email [email protected]
 

Pete McCluskey.

Lifetime Supporter
It appears that according to Mr.Blair congestion is what he is trying to solve. People cause congestion, so maybe the U.K. should change it's immigration policy and stop importing people? Just a thought.

I also found his comment "one way to solve the problem is to do nothing"
interesting, successive Governments in Australia have been excellent at "doing nothing" about infrastructure for years. IT DOES NOT WORK.
:mad:
 

Keith

Moderator
Yeah, re: Ian, that's exactly what he took several hundred words to say the patronising little s***. Hilariously, it came into my mailbox as a

SPAM WARNING "Message from No. 10"

Microsoft, I take it all back, you are spot on...:D
 
scheme
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/skim/Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[skeem]Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciationnoun, verb, schemed, schem·ing. –noun 1.a plan, design, or program of action to be followed; project. 2.an underhand plot; intrigue. 3.a visionary or impractical project. 4.a body or system of related doctrines, theories, etc.: a scheme of philosophy. 5.any system of correlated things, parts, etc., or the manner of its arrangement. 6.a plan, program, or policy officially adopted and followed, as by a government or business: The company's pension scheme is very successful. 7.an analytical or tabular statement. 8.a diagram, map, or the like. 9.an astrological diagram of the heavens. –verb (used with object) 10.to devise as a scheme; plan; plot; contrive. –verb (used without object) 11.to lay schemes; devise plans; plot.

It's all in the words and how you use them. See 2 and 3 above.
 

David Morton

Lifetime Supporter
From a very good friend, Bryn Wayt, who penned this to Bliar:

Tony,

Who said this?
Not once in the 16 months I spent on the Convention did representatives question whether deeper integration is what the people of Europe want..........

Who said this?
I voted against the European Union Bill on Third Reading because, once again, they had stretched the limits. From the moment that Giscard d'Estaing introduced this cock-eyed constitution, I have thought "Perhaps they have gone too far this time." Will the Foreign Secretary tell Chirac and Schröder that we will not go down the road that they are suggesting? Will he send them a copy of Monty Python's dead parrot sketch—it is deceased; it is kaput; it is no more?

Read on Tony!

I did sign that Petition - and for good reason. YOU and the governments before you have led honest British people into the EU with a pack of lies.
Ted Heath told lies that presently live on, and kindle your desire to be FULLY integrated with the swindlers and egomaniacs that run 'things' from Brussels. The EU Club is so corrupt and destructive that it must make good men turn in their graves, and those alive, sick at the treachery that drives you and your like to try and approve this EU cancer.

Referendums in the UK are rare. So are politicians that tell the truth. Which reminds me Tony of a promise YOU made, here's the honesty test again: The European Union Referendum : Directgov - Guide to government

Prime Minister Tony Blair has promised that a referendum will be held in the UK to let voters have their say. The referendum will probably be held sometime in 2006 and will ask one question: "Should the United Kingdom approve the treaty establishing a constitution for the European Union?"

Broken your promise haven't you sunshine! As Sir Alan Sugar would say, "YOU'RE FIRED!"

Liars are ten a penny, and I hate paying their way as an MP or MEP or EU propaganda merchant.

Prime Minister's Speeches - 2003 - Joint Press Conference in Poland with polish PM Leszek Miller Prime Minister: Poland is having a referendum on whether to join Europe. We had a referendum on whether to join Europe. [based on wholesale lies] There is no case whatever for having a referendum on the convention, unless it altered fundamentally the way that Britain is governed. Since I believe that the outcome of this convention will be the reaffirmation of Europe as a union of nations, not a federal superstate where foreign, and defence, and tax policy remain with the British people, there is no fundamental constitutional change that would warrant a referendum.

-------------------------------------
"We already have a federation. The 11, soon to be 12, member States adopting the euro have already given up part of their sovereignty, monetary sovereignty, and formed a monetary union, and that is the first step towards a federation." German Foreign Minister Joschka Fischer, FT July 7, 2000.

Parliament - the elected representatives of the British people - has the right to take important decisions on their behalf. Important decisions like going to war on a pile of lies...... have you found any WMD yet Tony? Dodgy dossiers and sexed-up trash - that's what the EU is too and you dare to play politics with that. YOU have NO RIGHT to mess with democracy and make "important decisions" on my behalf - and more than half the country!

I DON'T TRUST YOU to make a cup of tea. You have destroyed this country - that is your legacy! NHS, Transport, Pensions, Defence, Law and Order, Education, farming, fishing, manufacturing, illegal immigration........... the list goes on and on. RUN this country and make important decisions - you cannot run a cold bath. Now you try and tell me YOU want to slip into the EU like a pickpocket into this nations jacket..... you have been rumbled Mr. On yer bike!

This was the case when the UK joined the (then) European Economic Community (EEC) in 1973. Now you are talking about the LIES that were told back then, and with the same silk tongue that licks the wounds of a disastrous and hellish 10 years you have disgraced the Office of Prime Minister. Don't tell me any more of your lies or try and bullsh^t about the EEC of 1973........... a trading agreement that has turned into a cancerous monster, that has eroded every pillar of the Great Britain I was once willing to die for when wearing RAF Pilot wings for 12 years. YOU have been screwing the life out of the GB I once loved, and turned me against ALL you stand for with this new form of Nazi wind that has grown to a storm from the East, fanned by your duplicity and bad breath management.

There was, of course, a referendum on UK membership of the EEC in 1975 because the Labour Government was committed to seeking the approval of the British people for the renegotiated terms of membership which it had obtained. Funny how you've changed your tune! There was a time you were dead against this EU thing. The mind-numbing utter LIES that the Laeken Declaration spouted would make Goebbels click his heels and salute.

"The image of a democratic and globally engaged Europe admirably matches citizens' wishes. There have been frequent public calls for a greater EU role in justice and security, action against cross-border crime, control of migration flows and reception of asylum seekers and refugees from far-flung war zones. Citizens also want results in the fields of employment and combating poverty and social exclusion, as well as in the field of economic and social cohesion."

Laeken Declaration, 15 December 2001, which set up the Constitutional Convention under Valéry Giscard-d'Estaing, to write the first European Constitution. No evidence is given for any of these assertions of what the citizens of Europe want.


Out of 27 countries, how many allowed 'the people' to vote for what they wanted? You can count them on ONE hand. That is not democracy at work - it is Stalinism. Back in Feb 2005 I wrote an email to you: read it again. It contains words that I endorse to the hilt.

Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 3:33 PM
Subject: Reject this tawdry Constitution - Mr Alister QC


ONE minute to decide history.

Captain Bryn Wayt
------------------

European Parliament: 11th January 2005, debating the Treaty Establishing a Constitution For Europe.

Mr Alister is a QC and an MEP for the DUP in Northern Ireland

Allister (NI) - Mr President, though this House, in self-congratulatory euphoria, will embrace this Constitution, thankfully the ultimate decision rests with the Member States. It is their votes that really matter.
What I despise most is the false pretence, particularly prevalent in the United Kingdom, that this Constitution is merely a tidying-up exercise made necessary by enlargement and that it will settle the constitutional shape of Europe for generations. That is demonstrably false. Those who peddle that deception are best exposed by the Constitution's own most ardent and more honest proponents.

In the Constitutional Affairs Committee, I have observed at first hand the strategy and scheming of arch Europhiles. They make no secret of the fact that this Constitution is not an end in itself, but a work in progress and they do nothing to conceal their ambition to have it, in their terms, strengthened at the first opportunity - without, of course, the troublesome obstacle of further national consultation. Their undisguised candour gives the lie to those who would deceive voters into thinking that this is a mere tidying-up exercise: it is not.

The choice for the nation-states is this: a choice between a Europe of cooperating sovereign nation-states, or a Europe that is itself a superstate. Despite all the denials, this Constitution is a framework for superstatehood. It declares its supremacy over national constitutions; it proclaims the subservience of national law; it appoints its own president and foreign minister. It relegates national parliaments to mere consultative sounding boards; it trades meaningful democracy for the pseudo*democracy of this House; it neuters the last defence of the nation-state by increasingly supplanting the national veto with radically increased qualified majority voting; and it provides an unbridled path to further integration by permitting amendment by heads of government rather than by the people. Anyone with pride in his or her own nation, who does not want to see it subsumed into a hideous conglomerate, will reject this tawdry Constitution.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You know why I want a Referendum on this EU Constitution? So I my country is NOT subject to these scandals. The French and the Dutch voters told you lot where to go. Had you not broken your promise, you would have had another kick-in-the-teeth for you EU Constitution lovers.

The DIRTY Dozen

1. Rule Britannia, not any more: EU rules - Article 1-6 states: "EU law shall have primacy over the law of member states" SOD that!


2. Who runs Britain's Economy? EU constitution says: "Member states shall coordinate their economic and employment policies"

3. EU to set British tax rules? EU constitution says: "The Union shall provide itself with the means necessary to attain its objectives and carry through its policies"


4. Who controls British business? EU constitution says: "The Union shall have exclusive competence over. fisheries policy, commercial policy, Customs Union"

5. Are you British or are you an EU citizen? EU constitution says: "Every national of a Member state shall be a citizen of the Union"

6. Who will run UK Foreign policy & Defence? EU constitution says: "The Union shall have competence to define and implement a common foreign and security policy... and framing of a common defence policy"
7. Why vote for the three main political parties? EU constitution says: "A European law shall be a legislative act. It shall be binding in its entirety and directly applicable in all Member states."
8. You do as we say - EU constitution says: "Member states shall adopt all measures of national law necessary to implement legally binding Union Acts"

9. Judge and Jury in its own cause! EU constitution says: "The Court of Justice of the EU shall rule on actions brought by a member state."

10. Gone Fishing - or Fishing Gone? EU constitution says: "The Union shall have exclusive competence for conservation of marine biological Resources under the Common Fisheries Policy".
11. British Parliament - Museum of Democracy? EU constitution says:"EU member states...must refrain from any measure which would jeopardise the attainment of the Unions' objectives."
12. Bye-bye Great Britain! EU constitution says: "The flag of the Union shall be a circle of 12 golden stars on a blue background" YUK!

+ these TWO

13. Goodbye to the £Sterling! EU constitution says: "The currency of the Union shall be the Euro"

14. "Oh - What a lovely war!". Para 294-2 states: "Member States shall actively and unreservedly support the European Union's foreign and security policy"

The only thing missing is Hitler's signature............what went wrong?


Thereafter, each Treaty change - notably the Single European Act and the Treaties of Maastricht, Amsterdam and Nice - has been ratified following the passing of an Act of Parliament. Bulldozed through like the Animal Health Act - after you lot ILLEGALLY slaughtered millions of healthy animals in 2001. You were found out telling your damn lies then, so the law was changed in an instant! Don't try and tell me UK voters wanted these Treaty changes!

Subject to Parliament's agreement, the Government has committed itself to a referendum on the Treaty establishing a Constitution for Europe before its ratification by the UK. Then what are you waiting for Tony? Bring it on. Try and shut up for a change, and let the voters decide. Let the battle be joined as you said. You are too much of a coward to do battle other than with weasel words - you let others draw real blood.

You talk of Parliament's agreement; you are a dictator that just forges ahead ignoring Parliament with arrogant distain. Ask Lord Butler what he thinks of your wild-west antics! Former Cabinet Secretary Lord Butler launches an outspoken denunciation of the Prime Minister’s informal decision-making, condemning his failure to consult the Cabinet over the granting of independence to the Bank of England during his first days in power. He says Mr Blair and Gordon Brown concealed their intentions from both senior civil servants and members of the Cabinet and the Prime Minister could not understand that he was bypassing centuries of British tradition.

Following the 'no' votes in referendums in France and the Netherlands, however, the future of the Constitutional Treaty is now unclear. And I am delighted to hear that! Not often the French and Dutch lead the way...........UNCLEAR, what is unclear? The EU 'stuff' is dead; bury it and the stinking body.
YOU refused to let the UK have that vital moment to tell the world what real people want ....... they do not want the EU Federal State!


Hansard: 6 Jun 2005 : Column 999

Mr. Dennis Skinner (Bolsover) (Lab): Does the Foreign Secretary agree that people in the Common Market and, latterly, the European Union have from time to time overreached themselves in trying to sell a package from the top down? For example, they almost went a bridge too far when the then Tory Government signed the Maastricht treaty. I voted against the European Union Bill on Third Reading because, once again, they had stretched the limits. From the moment that Giscard d'Estaing introduced this cock-eyed constitution, I have thought "Perhaps they have gone too far this time." Will the Foreign Secretary tell Chirac and Schröder that we will not go down the road that they are suggesting? Will he send them a copy of Monty Python's dead parrot sketch—it is deceased; it is kaput; it is no more?

-------------------------


"The Convention brought together a self-selected group of the European political elite, many of whom have their eyes on a career at European level, which is dependent on more and more integration. Not once in the 16 months I spent on the Convention did representatives question whether deeper integration is what the people of Europe want, whether it serves their best interests or whether it provides the best basis for a sustainable structure for an expanding Union."

Gisela Stuart, Labour Member of Parliament, Member of Constitutional Convention and Drafting Presidium. From The Making of Europe's Constitution, Fabian Society Pamphlet, 2003.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Give the UK voters a Referendum on this EU Constitution malarkey Tony............ I dare you!

Captain Bryn Wayt
 
hi guys

This is not just about congestion road charging its also about privacy and their ability to also track you and your speed, when you enter congestion charge areas and parking, hell no one will have a licence within a year of its introduction.

Pete was spot on when he said its about too many people, we are over populated and we should shut our borders, a recent estimate was over 71,000,000 they don't know for sure as they have lost control, they don't even keep record when you leave or enter the country. I would say that the true UK population is over 80,000,000, I think we natives would benefit if we went back to 1970's levels of around 65,000,000 people.

The French don't help either they have five time the land mass of the UK with similar population their border police turn a blind eye to illegal immigrants and asylum seekers almost helping them to come to the UK.

This email from Blair today reflects his inability to listen to his own people and hopefully will cost his party dearly at the next general election.

I note he has tried to bury this debate by announcing the withdrawal of Troops from Iraq on the same day as his email response to the road charging partition another of his parties tactics.

Regards

Chris
 
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