The beast is born

[Roark_John]

Planning ahead, we've started looking for sources for the LS3.

Pace Performance and Fred Beans in PA seem to be competitive. Does anyone else have a source that is worth exploring?

Ruth,

I would recommend checking out Scoggins-Dickey, they are one of the largest GMPP dealers in the country...for example, here is two of their (Manual Transmission) E-ROD packages:

6.2L, 430hp GM Performance Parts 19257234 - E-ROD LS3 Crate Engine and Emissions Package (for manual transmissions) | SDParts - 1-800-456-0211

5.3L, 315hp http://sdparts.com/details/gm-performance-parts/19258008

The E-ROD is the GMPP "kit" that is fully CARB certified and emissions compliant...something to think about if you can't nab one of the SB100 exemptions there in Kalifornia.

 

[Wayne]

Sorry it took so long to welcome you to the group. You will have many scratch your head moments but will love the experience. It is comforting to know that you have a great bunch of guys right by your side.

Planning ahead, we've started looking for sources for the LS3.

FYI: When researched my LS376 I found Jones GM Parts in Lancaster, Pa. (717 394-8711) to have the best advertised price and negotiated final price $200 less and free shipping.

My only advice, stick to your plan and budget. Never waver. It is so easy to stray. If you do, your build cost could easily climb 20-25%+. Ask me how I know.

 

[Jack]

Stray, Wayne, really? OMG!
Me too...

 

[Doc Kaler]

I've lost count...........

 

[Mesa]

I try not to count

 

[Jack]

Rob, if you counted your head would spin so fast it would fall off! Don't do it!
iwnk! See what I mean.

 

[Alex]

We're supposed to count?

 

[Doug S.]

My only advice, stick to your plan and budget. Never waver. It is so easy to stray. If you do, your build cost could easily climb 20-25%+. Ask me how I know.

Stray, Wayne, really? OMG!
Me too...

I've lost count...........

I try not to count

Rob, if you counted your head would spin so fast it would fall off! Don't do it!

Guys, with these things just getting a "foot in the door" in regard to being completed, running vehicles, this is sorta scary to those of us who are considering them and WILL have an absolute budget...I've spent quite a bit of time scouring the SLC build threads lately (thanks, Doc, for the help!!), and already I feel like the fabrication issues will put me in over my head, now I worry that the "budget" issues will sink me, for sure!

Oh, well, onward through the fog...nobody ever reached a goal by letting themselves be detered from ever taking even the first step, no?

Cheers, Doug!!

 

[Wayne]

Doug, A remedy for your hesitation.

anticipated budget + 20% = realistic budget. (trust me)

And that's if you have discipline and self control. NOT!

 

[Fran Hall RCR]

Doug,

check out AllanSLC...you should have no worries about fab work as putting the SLC together the way its intended to be, is not a major fabrication event...now stray and forge new ground ....that a different story..
Allan has around 200 hrs total into his lovely painted, running , driving SLC with an ISIS system installed... and that his total build time....

Obviously we have a great bunch of builders on this forum from scratch to turnkey buyers...and everyone has their own ideas and takes on how things should be done...thats what makes this hobby/community great....however you decide to build and how ever much you decide to spend are choices you make...and not absolutes in any way shape or form...now go check out Allans pics and his build.

 

[Wayne]

Although "this isn't Allan's first rodeo" Fran is right, this car can be built as it was intended and can be put together with minimal fabrication skills and cost. My point is, that as a first time builder there are many items that you probably have not included in your initial budget. If your anticipated budget is complete and realistic, then yes, there won't be any surprises. With Allan's experience building a few GTMs I'm sure his parts list was complete and on hand when ready. Shit, I've waited weeks for a $5.00 part that I never realized I even needed. Not to mention the budget busting items that "I just had to have".
Fran has created something... well, just look at it. All the work was done in the design, we are just putting it together.
This build is such a blast, that any frustration(s) you may encounter along the way will quickly fade the moment you hit that start button. Just ask Cam, he is all smiles. Go ahead pull the trigger, join the group, you'll have plenty of support.

 

[Doc Kaler]

Doug,

I am firmly convinced that you can build this car as designed for about $70K. Not accounting for all of my self-inflicted diversions (Brembos, fuel cell, wheel upgrade, LS machine work and dry sump sundries, CF parts, custom seats, etc.), of course. Despite my own indulgences, I have fun with the project and can't wait to fire it up!

 

[Jack]

Can the SL-C realistically be built for under 70K, sure if you do a straight-forward build such as Allan has done. Point was well made about going off on tangents (Guilty here). Basically, the car builds itself as everything is well engineered and
not very complicated for a novice builder. The fit and finish of the 'glass parts are excellent and the chassis is a work of art. "assembly required" is what needs to be in mind. Everything falls into place as you go along. The 200 hour build can be done and has. I'm soon to "make noise" and have no where that time in the basic build (maybe 140 hours). A long way to go though as final assembly and paint/upholstery are not finalized. It will all come together in another 60-70 hours (giving me around 250 hours total). This does not count time fabricating "stuff" and other tangents just because I can and wish to.

My SL-C is sort of an oddball because of the unusual engine choice (I had already built it) and gearbox. I think the only one with this combo. This results in some different approaches to where to mount this and that as well as the DBW system is totally different from other LS engine builds. The PCM/ECU is twice as large, I eliminated the LS1 PCV system and will use breathers, an extra throttle control module, different engine harness, gearbox oil cooler/filter/pump, etc. are unique things to my SL-C.

So, yes a novice builder with a little guidance, as needed, can do it with no worries.
There are many SL-C builders willing to contribute advice, time and labor for your project. Just ask! I'm a very experienced builder that once was in the "business"
and I've had more than generous help and tangential ideations from guys like Will, Rob, Doc and Wayne on this forum. Some of us are just a bit "out of the box" on our builds.
Sorry for the longish post, but I really would build an additional SL-C should that occasion arise. Loving it! The "Tangential ideations" bit is for Rob! Had to do that...

 

[Ruth]

Doug,

I am firmly convinced that you can build this car as designed for about $70K.

Having gone through the due diligence, but not the build, I think that its doable, maybe even for a little bit less, but not for much less, and likely a little bit more

I will say though, having gone through the same due diligence on a different car, "cost certainty" seems MUCH more achievable on the SL-C, particularly for those of us who aren't fabricators or pro builders.

 

[Alex]

Having gone through the due diligence, but not the build, I think that its doable, maybe even for a little bit less, but not for much less, and likely a little bit more

I will say though, having gone through the same due diligence on a different car, "cost certainty" seems MUCH more achievable on the SL-C, particularly for those of us who aren't fabricators or pro builders.

I think in the long run the costs will probably be pretty similar. It seems, at least to me, to come down to do you want to pay less upfront for the GTM and pay a shit tonne in bodywork (and hope it's done properly .. I'm having a few issues w/ my cobra's bodywork at the moment), or do you want a quality body out of the mold, in addition to a quality chassis and billet suspension.

 

[Ruth]

I think in the long run the costs will probably be pretty similar.

The problem is I couldn't figure out WHAT the other car would cost to finish.

 

[jay cozz]

IMO it's like comparing apples and meat sticks, the SL-C is from the ground up a street legal race car with exotic lines. The GTM is full of donner parts designed for a less capable car. To me this is not a decision to be made based on price. For me it was the amount of people building SL-C's commenting on the quality of fitment, I did not get the same reasurrance when researching the other cars out there.

 

[Ruth]

IMO it's like comparing apples and meat sticks,

My only point was that with the SL-C, the two of us, having not built a car before, could more accurately estimate the cost of the SL-C build PRIOR to starting, than on the cars from most other component manufacturers.

Let's not use this space to bash the GTM. Several acquantances have them, and for some folks its a better way to go for a number of different reasons. For others like us, the SL-C makes more sense.

 

[Jack]

Ruth, I went down the same road as you had. Actually drove one of the GTM proto cars too. I began accumulating parts (that's how I wound up with the LS1) and then visited a gent in Ft. Lauderdale who was building one. After spending nearly an entire day evaluating his car, I concluded that it would require way too much bodywork and
chassis modifications to make it (IMO) safe. In the end I visited Fran and immediately ordered the SL-C. There is no comparison! Costing both out, and considering the poor fiberglass and fitment of the other car, I guestimated several months and a heap of fiberglass reconstruction would be needed to make the "other car" closer to similar left side-to-right side. Hated the arrangement of the plastic Corvette fuel tanks and the crossover fuel mod's needed. The assembly manual which I had initially purchased was an inch and a half of poor photos and missing or brushed over critical steps. I calculated around 80K to finish it well (not counting a year of my labor). The SL-C is a pretty straight forward build which will result in a real supercar for the street or track. Build time is very reasonable, mine is budget driven right now and would be road ready had I not gone off on some of the tangents discussed earlier. It will be making noise pretty soon! I'm looking forward to your build, and Colin has been in contact with several of our "gang" already.
Please know that I'm not GTM bashing here, simply giving my personal reasons for the choice. Anyone attempting to build a car such as these has my admiration regardless of the choice they have made.

 

[Ruth]

We started wondering out loud last night about other pieces of the puzzle. . . like the clutch.

Fran mentioned in another thread that the Griffin is compatible with 153 tooth domestic flywheel, clutch , starter. What specifically does that mean? Stock GM parts (Corvette?), or something else.

In another forum a similar discussion is taking shape, although obviously not within the context of the Griffin. They list the Spec stage 1 or 2 as suitable, but the recommendation there is as follows. I have no idea what it costs and cost is certainly a consideration. Thoughts anyone?

"The best clutch that we have found for this application is a warmed over unit from Kennedy Engineering. The pressure plate is the 11” GM truck unit with a stronger diaphragm. The disc is an 11” woven copper organic with Kennedy’s heavy-duty sprung hub. Its static torque rating is 716 lbs. ft. - plenty of clamping force for GM’s new “E-Rod” motor. And this thing comes off a stoplight like an ice cream truck. Super smooth – no issues!

Keep in mind, this is not a light combination, but it’s also the reason it’s so drivable. Light flywheels and clutches work fine, but without that extra stored energy (inertia) they’re a little tougher coming off a stoplight."