Conspiracy?

Jim Craik

Lifetime Supporter
Sigh.......:dead:

Pete, I'm very disappointed with you, you are very conservative, but for the most part you are a straight shooter.

But you defending a "news" service that purposly lies to the people....................

Very disappointing.
 
Pete, I'm very disappointed with you, you are very conservative, but for the most part you are a straight shooter.

But you defending a "news" service that purposly lies to the people....................

Very disappointing.

It is you who are a disapointment, you are pursuing a non-issue. Why don't you step back and look at it, maybe you'll get a fresh perspective, then again, maybe not. Bye.
 

Jeff Young

GT40s Supporter
Guys, here's some basic truths:

1. that chart is misleading. It suggests at a quick glance that unemployment has not gone down in the last few months. I doubt that was a mistake.

2. Fox News is entertainmentinfonews. Treat it as such. As others have suggested before, I would be just as dubious of the "information' a person who watched just MSNBC all day had as one who watches Fox.

3. Read up on the myth of the "liberal" media, especialy in the internet/talk radio age where most internet sources and talk radio is dominated by conservatives --which is fine. While it is generally true that most of a newsroom staff leans Democrat, paper ownership is typically conservative. There may be some "left" bias with ABC, CBS, and NBC but they do at least try to be objetive and most reasonable studies of their reporting suggest the succeed most of the time. To contend that Fox is a viable alternative to these sources is laughable really.

4. Get your news and opinion from many places. Economist. US News. BBC. NY Times/Chicago Tribune/LA Times. George Will. Charles Krauthammer. David Gergen. Paul Krugman.

But don't fall into the trap of believing Fox is a viable alternative. If you do, you'll miss out on a whole lot of what is going on in the world.
 

Jim Craik

Lifetime Supporter
It is you who are a disapointment, you are pursuing a non-issue. Why don't you step back and look at it, maybe you'll get a fresh perspective, then again, maybe not. Bye.

Tom,

That comment from you says it all, it says just how far we have fallen and how easely folks can be duped!

Tom, Big business, that pretends to provide "News" but subtly and not so subtley missleads, distorts and outright lies will will never be a NON-ISSUE with me!

You are the ones that need to step back and look at what you are saying!

Tom, do you really believe that its OK for you to be deceived?
Tom, do you think that its good for America to be fed missleading information?
Tom how about Russia, Cuba, China, Iran..................

Tom you OK with that too, will you defend them as well?

Or do you draw the line, its only OK to lie if I agree with them?


Tom, yellow journalism is not new.............

Its folks like you who defend the un-defendable that have allowed the rich and powerful to manipulate the minds of the people!

*******************

There were people who defended Randolph Hurst................
There were people who defended Pravda............................
There were people who defended Castro...........................
There were people who defended Gerbels...........................
There were people who defended Stalin.............................

Tom, you are right there with them!

You are dissapointed with those who point this out? REALLY?


I know that this type of talk irratates some of you, well tough!!!!!!!

THIS WILL NEVER BE A NON-ISSUE WITH ME!

NEVER!!!!!!!
 
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Tom,

That comment from you says it all, it says just how far we have fallen and how easely folks can be duped!

Tom, Big business, that pretends to provide "News" but subtly and not so subtley missleads, distorts and outright lies will will never be a NON-ISSUE with me!

You are the ones that need to step back and look at what you are saying!

Tom, do you really believe that its OK for you to be deceived?
Tom, do you think that its good for America to be fed missleading information?
Tom how about Russia, Cuba, China, Iran..................

Tom you OK with that too, will you defend them as well?

Or do you draw the line, its only OK to lie if I agree with them?


Tom, yellow journalism is not new.............

Its folks like you who defend the un-defendable that have allowed the rich and powerful to manipulate the minds of the people!

*******************

There were people who defended Randolph Hurst................
There were people who defended Pravda............................
There were people who defended Castro...........................
There were people who defended Gerbels...........................
There were people who defended Stalin.............................

Tom, you are right there with them!

You are dissapointed with those who point this out? REALLY?


I know that this type of talk irratates some of you, well tough!!!!!!!

THIS WILL NEVER BE A NON-ISSUE WITH ME!

NEVER!!!!!!!

The point, which you don't seem to get, is nobody was deceived. I would bet that not one person that saw the graph was deceived, not even you!
That was a pretty stirring little speech you just gave, makes me want to go out a protest or something..........
 

Doug S.

The protoplasm may be 72, but the spirit is 32!
Lifetime Supporter
The point, which you don't seem to get, is nobody was deceived. I would bet that not one person that saw the graph was deceived, not even you!

I think it's fairly obvious that Fox deliberately tried to mislead the CASUAL observer into believing that the unemployment rate had not decreased by the way their chart reads. After all, a chart really is just a "quick and dirty" way of defining hard numerical data. It's good for a quick glance, a casual look, not much more.

Think about how misrepresentative of the average "citizen" we who discuss these issues here on the forum are. For the most part, we're more educated, have higher average income....I mean, come on guys, do you really think the average citizen can "target" a toy of the nature of the GT40? No way. We here on the forum are a very skewed representation of what variation there is within the political spectrum.

To that end, it has been my observation that the less educated tend to view things such as the Fox chart under discussion as a believable way to "understand" the information without having to investigate further. They go for the casual, quick 'n' dirty method of getting the information (and, keep in mind, if they are searching for their information on FN?N, they already have a skewed view of the world), generally accepting that it is accurate without delving deeper (read: looking at the numbers, as Tom et al are suggesting).

So, Tom, domtoni, et al, YOU are among what I believe to be the upper echelon of the "conservative" movement....well away from the rabid "Chicken Little" contingency that is arguing that the sky will fall unless Obama can be defeated in the next election.....YOU had the good sense and the temerity to look deeper than the geometry of the chart and read the numbers.

Really, though, how representative of the "conservative" movement do you think you are? I can assure you, having done cognitive and adaptive behavior testing for 25 years, the average person is nowhere near as "capable" as are all of you guys. The average person would look at that chart and just accept at face value that the unemployment situation is no better at the end of that line graph than it was at the point immediately preceding it....that's how they roll.

....but, then, it appears to me that FN?N really COUNTS on this tendency. While in college I studied Marshal McLuhan's "The Medium is the Message", a treatise on the use of medium to link subliminal messages to the form of medium used to present the material. In essence, what FN?N does is adopt the "lowest common denominator" in establishing their target audience.

There are mediums which can target the even less cognitively advantaged...cereal boxes, comic books, that sort of stuff. Don't believe me? Look at the Jehova's Witness literature that is handed out door-to-door and left in the laundromats these days...comic book format, searching for those easily led, impressionable "high-grade morons" (another of my mother's favorite verbalizations) who tend to believe anything as long as it is delivered in the medium they appreciate.

Not to hard to figure out what FN?N's "target" group is, is it?

You fellow forum members of the conservative persuasion who are protesting that Jim is fixated on the geometry of the graph are WAAAAY above the average FN?N viewer, I assure you...you had the good sense to look at the numbers (exactly as Jim did), so you understand it on a more cognitively active basis, but b/c you favor the general message FN?N delivers you aren't as incensed as is Jim at the intentional misrepresentation FN?N's "quick 'n' dirty" format provides. Jim is focusing on the immoral intent in the message, not so much the content as are you, Tom, domtoni, Pete, et al...so he is just as correct as are any of the rest of you, has looked at the numbers just as have you and understands them just as you do, he's just more focused on the "medium" which FN?N used to distort the information.

The average FN?N viewer will never get that far in their acquisition and use of the information, guys...believe it :idea: !

Cheers!!

Doug
 
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Jim Craik

Lifetime Supporter
Thank you Doug, very well stated.

Tom, I will ask again, when does it stop being OK to deceive?

When MSNBC does it?
When Iran does it?
When North Korea does it?.....................

I'm very intersted in your thoughts.
 

Jim Craik

Lifetime Supporter
The point, which you don't seem to get, is nobody was deceived. I would bet that not one person that saw the graph was deceived, not even you!
That was a pretty stirring little speech you just gave, makes me want to go out a protest or something..........

Tom,

You keep trying to say, well its just a graph, nobody was deceived........

You were!

Tom, Domtoni, Pete,

It's not just this chart, thats just a small part! Its the day in, day out distortion of the truth, missleading info and lies. They do add up and they do decieve folks!

Tom, when is it not OK to decieve?
 
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Ian Anderson

Lifetime Supporter
Jim

Herewith 2 graphs (From your figures you posted)
Both say the same thing
But one shows the unemployment level as being stable around the 9% mark - and the other shows it decreasing massively

It's all about interpretation


Sorry a boring day in the office


Ian
 

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Jeff Young

GT40s Supporter
That's right. And both are accurate in the sense that they protray the data fairly, just with a different scale.

That Fox chart deliberately set 8.6 on the line equal to 9 so when you took a quick look at it the eye lead you to believe unemployment had not gone down.

It's subtle but it is a good example of what Fox is actually trying to do, versus the "liberal media" who try to present things fairly but occasionaly get caught up in their own biases.
 

Jim Craik

Lifetime Supporter
Jim

Herewith 2 graphs (From your figures you posted)
Both say the same thing
But one shows the unemployment level as being stable around the 9% mark - and the other shows it decreasing massively

It's all about interpretation


Sorry a boring day in the office


Ian

Ian,

Thanks for the input. Yes you are absolutly right, both those charts show the information correctly. The scale is different and the lower chart makes the latest line appear steeper, but it also makes the upward lines appear steeper does it not. The upper chart does show that the unemployment rate is at the lowest of the year. Additionally you could contine to change the scale until the line appears straight, could you not? Then it would show nothing.

But the scale of the chart in not the issue, both these charts correctly show the trends, and anyone glancing at them would inderstand how the unemployment issue was progressing.

The issue would be if the charts were altered to show a trend that was not taking place!
 
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Jim Craik

Lifetime Supporter
Bob, you seem confused, this is not a discussion about the Unemployment rate, this is a discussion about a "news" service distorting information.
 

Jeff Young

GT40s Supporter
You can't lump all of them in together like that.

MSNBC sure. PBS?? Masterpiece Theater is biased?

ABC/NBC/CBS are large corporate media outlets. Probably a bunch of left leaning folks in the news rooms but ones who try for the most part to be oejctive. That's what they get paid to do -- you clearly don't make money as a "liberal media outlet" in this country.

MSNBC and FOX are equivalents. The others are not.

One thing the right wing has done extremely well in the last 30 years is to convince folks that the mainstream media is liberal and biased, and not be trusted, and thus clearly biased sources like Rush or Beck or Fox are the "only" alternative that is "fair and balanced."

This is mostly false. It's a dupe job.

A lot of research out there on this. Here's a short primer on it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYlyb1Bx9Ic
 

Jim Craik

Lifetime Supporter
Jeff, that tape gives a good outline of the "main stream" Media.

Whenever folks here say that Fox is just like the other left leaning media sources, only to the right, I always ask for examples.

I say outside of Fox and MSNBC which both distort and miss-inform, give me an exaple of ABC, NBC or CBS purposly giving false information.

I usually get............."everyone knows" there is lots of it, I dont have time to hunt it all down.......

Or they go back seven+ years and bring up the Dan Rather, George Bush thing.

Ironicly, they use an example where a story was wrong, and the Nework did the right thing. They admitted they were wrong in airing the story and there were consiquence. People lost their jobs.

So now I'll ask again, please give us some examples were ABC, CBS or NBC have recenty, knowingly aired false or missleading information.
 
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Jeff Young

GT40s Supporter
I'm sure someone will chime in with "Chomsky's a communist" - but he is a smart one...lol...

Seriously, his question is excellent -- WHY this insane push by large media types to convince you the media is liberally biased? You need to ask that question and think about it long and hard.....
 
Bob, you seem confused, this is not a discussion about the Unemployment rate, this is a discussion about a "news" service distorting information.


Point being the media, including Fox, dutifully reports the numbers the government gives them. Today, the unemployment numbers were revised up like every other month since B.O. has become president.

The article you are responding to shows how the real employment scene is falling out and warns that taking these numbers, which you are so virulently trying to make look better, can come back to bite us because a false, rosy employment picture might bring out a lot of people who formerly gave up on looking for a job.

Worrying how one news network presents these government distorted numbers is the least of our problems.
 

Jim Craik

Lifetime Supporter
Nobody says anything when ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, or MSNBC says something that can be construed as bias, which happens quite often. If Fox diagrees with Obama's policies Jim says they are hateful, you say malignant. It's just a view that opposes your view, who decides who's right or wrong? Not even the voters, it's just the flavor of the day! We will find out which flavor in November.

Tom, you posted this a few days ago, Outside of MSNBC who lie just like Fox give us some recent examples of ABC, NBC, CBS, bias, lieing or just making stuff up.

You say it "happens quite often", then it should be easy for you to post a few!
 
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