Celebrate!! / Does the Paddock Need to Continue?

[Keith]

I'm also guilty of replying to "certain" posts but only because I'm interested in learning or finding solutions. Unfortunately the language of 'debate' has intensified to an unpleasant level.

I know exactly when this all started, when the mood changed and the people involved. It is almost exactly 1 year and 1 month now since that time.

I have been a prolific poster on the Paddock and have always been mindful of the fact I don't own a car. However, I have made many friends in different countries that I exchange emails with regularly off-forum.

Personally, it is fairly obvious who the protagonists are and as long as they continue, I have to say I will no longer participate - it's just become a place of misery at times - and I apologise to all if my contributions have, in some way helped to promote the unhappy experience.

Sometimes things need to be broken completely before they are rebuilt and I think we have probably reached that point by comparison with just over 1 year ago. Since then, regretfully there has been much bitterness displayed on here which is always visible and not at all representative of the 99% of great contributors.

 

[Dave Wood]

Keith, I am curious, what was it that caused the change that you are referring to? I ask because other than viewing the garage sale stuff, I have been fairly absent during that period. I notice what has become a very "mantra" type of exchange and fairly disparaging references to persons with an opposing view....but didn't see the transition that you seem to have witnessed. I am just curious as to what could trigger such a deterioration. Thanks.

 

[Chris Kouba]

With the exception of the paddock, I think the forum still has a high signal to noise ratio. Particularly when compared against other car forums. There is good tech here, some of the best build threads on the net, and a lot of knowledgeable members.

Yeah, but... My poorly worded point was the sense of community which I have previously enjoyed has been eroded by the Paddock evolution, which continues to rage on (just adjacent to this thread in fact!). Today, and for quite some time, the forum has become a place I visit from time to time instead of the place where I used to reside (went from being my home page to checking in once or twice a month).

The discourse in certain threads belongs on grade school playgrounds, and it has changed the role this community fulfills for me. The tech side of it brings me back (there are awesome, socially functional people here happy to share knowledge with the likes of me) but I miss when everyone pretty much got along here and saved the inflammatory crap for forums where people were interested in that.

If I wanted crap, I'd turn on the TV.

Chris

 

[Ron Earp]

Point taken Chris, but the Paddock is a completely optional part of the forum. It isn't indexed on New Posts unless you want it to be, and, you don't have to click the paddock area to read the threads. It has no effect on the rest of the forum that has to do with technical matters, sharing information, and showing off your build.

I'm not defending the Paddock - I don't read down here (except this thread as I'm trying to sort out what to do with the Paddock) or get involved with the discussions. But you don't have to read down here either if you are offended or put off by it. For the most part the people that routinely post in the Paddock do not post on the main forums, and vice versa.

 

[Keith]

Keith, I am curious, what was it that caused the change that you are referring to? I ask because other than viewing the garage sale stuff, I have been fairly absent during that period. I notice what has become a very "mantra" type of exchange and fairly disparaging references to persons with an opposing view....but didn't see the transition that you seem to have witnessed. I am just curious as to what could trigger such a deterioration. Thanks.

I've tried to explain this before but it has resulted in inflammatory responses, so I'm afraid I won't go down that route again - sorry...

 

[Al Jones]

Ron, you asked, more likely rhetorically than literally, how you would determine the individual to be temporarily restricted ('banned' has a finality to it). In the end, it's your forum and I think you have handled the problems fairly and with decorum, therefore it would be your decision as to who got the tempy 'boot'. Most of us have supported the manner in which you have managed the forum and would support your right, in concert with the other moderators, to levy restrictions based on common sense and decency. In short, if you feel someone has crossed the line - 30 days in the hole, as the song goes. And if they don't like it, they've got 30 days to think about it. ( so I guess I'll see everyone in 30 days!).
A.J.

 

[Pat]

How about every time it starts getting personal, abusive or plain obnoxious we post cat videos?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q34z5dCmC4M]Henri 2, Paw de Deux - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Cliff Beer]

I thought it would be a place for collegial debate....but it just seems to be a place providing an opportunity for negativity and personal squabble, extreme political ranting, and general craziness.

It doesn't really add anything to the automotive knowledge base so I say nix it. Just my $.02.

 

[craig]

This has to be Deja vu....I could swear this was an issue not so long ago.
My take is leave the paddock alone and if the topics happen to aggravate, insult or offend you..don't participate in them. I also think the harsh tone that is sometimes thrown around in the paddock is mostly a surface tone, for example Craik and Veek are polar opposites on political views but yet when they did happen to be in the same city together they sat down and shared some drinks. I'm also pretty sure this stuff never spills out of the paddock into any other forum where proper respect is always practiced..
I really don't understand why a person that's not interested in a particular topic cares about how,why or when it's discussed..
GT40s.com will always be about the car, but i see no harm in having a place where everyday life issues can't be discussed..

 

[David Morton]

So nothing will change.
Probably more silly reasons as to why these idiots and fools should be tolerated but nothing will change. Mark my words.

I get emails people who were quite active using the paddock area of this forum who want to stay in touch on private email. To a man, they say they will never return to the website. In addition, some tell me that these 'people' who have destroyed the paddock are not typical Americans - which I truly believe but they cite these 'people' as the reason they have departed.

I have never made a secret of anything on this paddock not least of my email address which is [email protected] so if you feel the necessity to stay in touch please feel free.
I will look in from time to time and see if they have been banned but I will not hold my breath. I offered to have a poll - that was seemingly declined.
They seem to have a priviledged existence and are probably either all mates or all the same person.
At the moment, the paddock area is a total fuck up.
You all seem to know who they are........I get told on private emails.
BFN
Dave Morton

 

[Ron Earp]

Okay, so now it sounds like both David and Keith have identified "the people" who have destroyed the paddock. And these people are running other people out of the paddock and these "other people" will never return. Apparently David indicates that "the people" are "not typical Americans". So which one of you Paddock haunts is not a typical American and is destroying the paddock?

Guys, if you have something to say, say it. If you think you know what the problem is then identify it. As far as I can tell all the people that normally visit the paddock are still visiting the paddock. But, I don't read the threads down here hence my reasons for asking questions.

As to moderation, l don't read down here and I would not be the moderator for the paddock. One of you paddock regulars would have to be the moderator. And, along those lines the reason for my post regarding "who to ban" was to make a point - one of you would have to be the moderator and you couldn't ban someone because you didn't like their point of view.

If the paddock regulars can't make it work then the paddock should be closed as it'll serve no purpose.

Ron

 

[Chris Kouba]

Craik and Veek are polar opposites on political views but yet when they did happen to be in the same city together they sat down and shared some drinks.

So why does this courtesy disappear on the forum? That's my point. Discuss whatever. Remain cordial. Simple.

Do I read the potentially inflammatory posts? No, not typically, but from time to time the train wreck syndrome creeps in and I get curious to see what could possibly be fueling 10 or 20 pages of banter. I am ok with that and understand the voluntary nature of opening threads or not. Unfortunately it only confirms our degradation.

My main point is the sense of community and decorum here has decayed. None of the fiery crap seems to foster any growth or change anyone's religion or political views, yet we still seem to stoke the flame. Please stop. My plea is to cut the crap and use the Paddock to share interesting, non-GT40 things.

Use this for a filter: Ask yourself if what you're about to post contributes positively to the forum. Yes? Click "Submit Reply". No? Think of a different way to say it or just let it go.

Chris

 

[Brett James-McCall]

Ron,
Like you I wander into the Paddock infrequently and don't moderate here. In a few days time I will have been a member for 10 years - my personal opinion is that The Paddock has made the signal:noise ratio higher on the forum, and for me actually made it slightly worse. I know we've had people like Meat and 'that bloke with his SLC here in the UK' etc but at least to some extent they had car issues.

My vote is to turn it off and turn this back into more of a car/GT40 forum. Maybe an update to the rules to include topics that will get you a 1/3/6/permanent ban?

Just my $0.02, but I do miss the old days...

Brett

 

[Randy V]

Guys,

I have sent off a private suggestion to Ron about this subject which may provide a viable solution for all.
I do make it to the Paddock quite frequently and have had to do little moderation here and will continue in that direction. One thing I will not sit still for is the posting of anyone's private or confidential information here (which includes home addresses, phone numbers, any ID numbers, etc.). If I see anything like that here, I will clean it up, but would rather clean it up and ban the perpetrator at least temporarily.. The verbal scuffles here have gotten out of hand on numerous occasions and that really needs to stop.

 

[Doc Kaler]

Chris,

"'I get curious to see what could possibly be fueling 10 or 20 pages of banter'"

It's the "Law of Forum Thread Entropy" whereby the discussion spirals out of control after the third page.....

 

[tom pritchett]

Having a debate over ideas of all sorts can be thought provoking and educational. The problem is when it is made to be personal that it becomes an issue. I have had several open thought provoking debates on this forum and would like that to continue. If we can delete post that become personal in nature could serve the paddock well.

Thank you Randy V for your perspective.

 

[Doug Clark]

I like the three month ban idea. But who would a moderator ban? Someone who's opinions were different from his but who wrote eloquently? Someone who had the same opinion as his but used inflammatory language in their posts? Or, ban the people who post nowhere else but the paddock since they are clearly here to stir the pot?

Ah that's the fun bit, whoever you feel like as its your forum

Here's what I've seen done on other forum's in a few situations...

Situation 1.
Person 'A' starts douche thread (i.e. obviously offensive, guaranteed to start a shit fight again or covered a 1000 times already). Mod then locks thread and gives reason for lock. If the offender repeats enough to test the patience of the mod the ban hammer comes down.

Situation 2.
Good thread goes bad. Person 'A' sticks crap in a thread that just ain't going to help. Mod deletes post content and gives reason for deleting it. If the offender repeats enough to test the patience of the mod the ban hammer comes down.

Easy.

If the offended parties don't like it then they can find another forum to play on, but generally from what I have seen people learn not to test the patience of the mods. (I was going to say rules, but that's wrong as then people would want to take it to the stewards which is not going to happen).

I like this example for laying it out to people:

The Rich Ban is back...

 

[John]

Personaly I enjoy the paddock, a great source for humour to lighten up the day, and the odd interesting off topic article, like the radial Aero engine , but the two things that get up my nose are politics and religion, the two greatest causes of conflict on our planet, and two subjects we definitly don't need on this forum, my vote would be to ban those two and leave the rest to look after its self
JMTBW
happy new year John

 

[Dave]

Turn it off.....:thumbsdown:

 

[SteveB]

The site is getting blurred and out of 'focus' on its core values .... GT40,s

The protagonists of politics and religion are still at it, if they can't self regulate:- Turn it off!

Steve