Does anyone legitimate seriously doubt it anymore?

[Cliff Beer]

Does anyone legitimate still doubt that a) global climate change is a significant and real phenomenon, and b) it's not primarily a man-made event?

About-face: Former climate change skeptic now says global warming is man-made | The Lookout - Yahoo! News

Further, does anyone legitimate doubt that this is going to cause radical (and mostly very bad) changes in human existence over the coming decades?

ps. this is just a friendly debate, no need for personal comments if at all possible.

 

[Joey Dean]

a) Yes, I doubt it. I feel our current climate is nothing more than a cyclic change.

b) See above.

I do believe that man has impacted the swing of the cycles, but to a very small degree.

 

[Jim Craik]

Cliff,

I'm afraid that there are many who doubt that man is responsible.

I'm sure that the Earth is getting warmer, there is much evidence of that.

There is also no doubt that the earth goes through warming and cooling Cycles.

Those who say that man absolutly has no part in it do not know what the are talking about.

Those who say that it is absolutly all caused by man, also do not know what they are talking about.

No one knows for sure.

 

[TimB]

The one question in all of these debates I never see addressed is the following

What is the ideal temperature the earth should be. Until we can answer that we have no basis for saying whether a given cycle is bad or not merely different

 

[Pete McCluskey.]

The climate changes on a daily basis, last week in Brisbane it was raining,
Today it is a beautiful sunny day. The same patterns have occurred for millions of years. Not so long ago the Thames was frozen over, today some say the planet is warming. Some predicted that Pacific Islands would subside into the rising ocean and polar caps would melt and polar bears would become extinct
Turned out to be total bollocks.
The primary cause of global warming is the sun....combined with water vapour.
Some call them clouds.
Do men have an effect on global warming? Maybe a minute one. Is that a bad thing? Warmer climates produce more food, need less energy.
The big bad thing that the people with vested interests are blaming is carbon.
A colourless odourless gas which I was taught was part of the carbon cycle and without which photosynthesis could not occur. I.E. without which the planet would starve.
The carbon traders, Al Gore and Goverments who saw an opportunity to further tax people jumped aboard the carbon is bad wagon.
Today kids are taught carbon is bad. How misguided is that.
Should we work hard at stopping pollution? Of course but let's start with plastic supermarket bags. That would be a real contribution towards stopping pollution.

 

[Mark]

I love you Pete! Seriously.

And I am still not going to reply to Jim in the other thread, because I am pissed right now. But I stil love you Pete.

 

[zollis]

Should we work hard at stopping pollution? Of course but let's start with plastic supermarket bags. That would be a real contribution towards stopping pollution.

Here in my city 99% of plastic supermarket bags are GONE. If you want one, you have to pay extra for it.










Z.C.

 

[Mark]

You'll probably find that my Mrs. has got them all Zollis!

 

[theon]

The data I would like to see would be perhaps 10 glaciers and how far they receded each year over a 100 period. If I saw that data it seems it would be conclusive one way or the other. If we saw a solid rate of recession increasing every year not being just cyclical then that should be conclusive.

 

[Bob Fechter]

Does anyone remember why we started using plastic bags?

When the stores are forced to stop using plastic bags, we will all have to buy a bunch of bags to replace the ones from the store to pick up dog doo, and the myriad of jobs these bags are used for. This is really one of the few actual acts of re-cycling we do.

Should we work hard at stopping pollution? Of course but let's start with plastic supermarket bags. That would be a real contribution towards stopping pollution.

Here in my city 99% of plastic supermarket bags are GONE. If you want one, you have to pay extra for it.










Z.C.

 

[Pete McCluskey.]

The data I would like to see would be perhaps 10 glaciers and how far they receded each year over a 100 period. If I saw that data it seems it would be conclusive one way or the other. If we saw a solid rate of recession increasing every year not being just cyclical then that should be conclusive.

100 years in the life of a planet that is millions of years old is conclusive? A mere
nano second in time is conclusive? I think not. But let us accept the globe is going through a warming period (not that I do),but please do not blame carbon and men's puny efforts in the millisecond of time they have been around.

 

[Pete McCluskey.]

I love you Pete! Seriously.

And I am still not going to reply to Jim in the other thread, because I am pissed right now. But I stil love you Pete.

Ah dear friend many express love when pissed, do they not. I know for instance that when I am pissed, many strange things happen. Previously old hags become attractive, I believe I can sing, I believe I can dance, I believe that I become a great lover and am amazed when young ladies giggle and tell me to piss off.
I Believe I become a great raconteur and Bon Vivant all of which sadly is not true.
If when you are recovered from your hangover and wish to express love for Moi (in a manly way of course) I will accept in a brotherly way.

 

[Mark]

Well here we are, fresh after a good night's sleep and I now only Like you Pete

Sorry to say that the love I felt was simply a phantom love, expressed through a gallon of Spitfire. Sad I know.

Keep on telling it like you do Pete. You are so much better at making a point than I am.

 

[Ian Anderson]

Does anyone remember why we started using plastic bags?

When the stores are forced to stop using plastic bags, we will all have to buy a bunch of bags to replace the ones from the store to pick up dog doo, and the myriad of jobs these bags are used for. This is really one of the few actual acts of re-cycling we do.

And it would then be beneficial to burn all the plastic bags to generate electricity!

After all then the whole plastic bag thing is just prior recycling of a hudrocarbon before it's correct use of generating power

Ian

 

[Mark]

Like it Ian.

 

[Terry Oxandale]

The older I get, the less likely I am to be amazed, but I find myself amazed that anybody can consider the current population of humans, and their impact on this planet, as "puny". Yes, it is vastly more convenient to assume this, so that one's personal accountability disappears. We (I include myself) consume any resource within reach, and expel the byproduct of that consumption to the most convenient source (or resource), and assume nothing we do as any impact on the sliver of atmosphere that covers this planet. A virus starts out small, with insignificant impacts on it's host as well, but allowed to multiply unimpeded, the impact of that virus becomes obvious, and if left unchecked, will destroy the host that provides it life. The virus does what is convenient and without forethought...consume, multiply, consume... I hear caring words about how we shouldn't leave our monetary problems to our offspring, but no thought is given toward the quality of life passed onto a generation that may not be bent on consumption.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>
<o></o>
I dare not swim in the creek today, where I swam as a boy, only because of what has been done to it by my fellow humans. Micro as this may be as an example, at what point on a macro scale does one realized that we are adversely impacting the environment in which we live.<o></o>

 

[Mark]

A very caring view Terry. It is not that we (particularly myself) naysayers don't give a hoot about, or deny we have any impact. It is the way we are spoon fed very dubious and manipulated data and are as a result, governed and taxed on the back of that data. That is what really does my noggin in.

But I venture this, (whilst not condoning polution) and wager that it won't be long before the weeds and the trees grow back, on the very place where highway 1 currently sits. The wildlife around Chernobyl (cheak speelin mistak), is doing very well indeed and every time I apply weed killer to my garden, the bastards return with a vengeance.

Nature, the cosmos, the planet we sit on, will and always does, make a comeback. All matter in universe is finite. It doesn't increase in quanty, one element becomes another ad-infinitum.

Oil spilled in the oceans is hideous and catastrofic locally and for quite some time. But the seas of the ocean maintain their equilibrium over all and over time.

More concern voiced generally is for impacts on humans than it is for impacts on enviroment. God forbid someones business suffers as a result of such a calamity. A few worry about the wildlife affected. But for how long do people worry or work to fix their beaches?

I think we all agree (and I have said it before), that to wantonly polute and indescriminately destroy stuff around us makes no sense. BUT THAT IS NOT CAUSING GLOBAL WARMING. It is merely shitting in our own back yard.

 

[Bob Fechter]

We started using plastic bags to save the trees. Never mind that in the United State, we have more trees than in colonial times.

Now, of course, the new crisis is too much plastic in the landfills.

So, now we are asked to bring re-useable shopping bags, and here comes the next crisis!

"You're trying to do your bit to save the planet by using eco-friendly grocery bags. But if those reusable bags aren't cleaned frequently and properly, you may be putting your family's health at risk for contracting nasty foodborne illnesses, such as salmonella, listeria, and E.coli O157:H7."

Gross Grocery Bags: Reusable Totes Harbor Bacteria that Can Make You Sick | Healthy Living - Yahoo! Shine

So, the latest cure is to charge ten cents for a paper bag. :!

 

[Al Wohlstrom]

The data I would like to see would be perhaps 10 glaciers and how far they receded each year over a 100 period. If I saw that data it seems it would be conclusive one way or the other. If we saw a solid rate of recession increasing every year not being just cyclical then that should be conclusive.

Over a lousy 100 years? That's like a piss hole in the snow time wise.

 

[Al Wohlstrom]

The older I get, the less likely I am to be amazed, but I find myself amazed that anybody can consider the current population of humans, and their impact on this planet, as "puny". Yes, it is vastly more convenient to assume this, so that one's personal accountability disappears. We (I include myself) consume any resource within reach, and expel the byproduct of that consumption to the most convenient source (or resource), and assume nothing we do as any impact on the sliver of atmosphere that covers this planet. A virus starts out small, with insignificant impacts on it's host as well, but allowed to multiply unimpeded, the impact of that virus becomes obvious, and if left unchecked, will destroy the host that provides it life. The virus does what is convenient and without forethought...consume, multiply, consume... I hear caring words about how we shouldn't leave our monetary problems to our offspring, but no thought is given toward the quality of life passed onto a generation that may not be bent on consumption.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>
<o></o>
I dare not swim in the creek today, where I swam as a boy, only because of what has been done to it by my fellow humans. Micro as this may be as an example, at what point on a macro scale does one realized that we are adversely impacting the environment in which we live.<o></o>

Ahhh, so it's the damn humans we should get rid of, makes sense to me!