For the political pundits.........

Jeff Young

GT40s Supporter
YOU are missing the point. Completely. The Obama Administration's position on the Falklands is NO DIFFERENT THAN THE US POSITION ON THEM SINCE THE 40S.

The US has always pushed the Brits and the Argentines to negotiate a settlement.

You read and watch malarkey so you type malarkey.
 

Pat

Supporter
Hi Jeff, It's Friday. Do you happen to know where Egypt president Mohamed Morsi is today? With his new BFF in Teheran. THAT's working out well...

As for the Telegraph article on the Falklands (which have been under British sovereignty since 1833), you seem to have forgotten Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher went to war over the islands 30 years ago this month after an invasion by Argentina’s ruling military junta. The current administration's "neutral" stance perhaps was not altogether appreciated when Mr. Obama endeared himself to some in Britain by using – or attempting to use – Argentina’s name for the islands, “Las Malvinas” on Columbian television.
But to correct your historical error, far from actually being neutral during the Falklands War, the US provided military intelligence assets (which included satellite imagery and HUMINT sources in the Argentine Government) to the UK in the Falklands War as well as the use of US facilities in Ascension Islands as a staging base. The US attempted to broker a peace deal which the Argentine government soundly rejected. A timeline:

APRIL 29, 1982 -Argentina Rejects US Secretary of State Haig's final peace proposal.

APRIL 30, 1982 - Haig announces U.S. support for the U.K. AND SANCTIONS AGAINST ARGENTINA.

APRIL 30, 1982 - THE BRITISH ANNOUNCE THAT THE MARITIME EXCLUSION ZONE AROUND THE FALKLAND ISLANDS IS NOW A TOTAL EXCLUSION ZONE, MAKING IT APPLICABLE TO AIRCRAFT.

Then the crap hits the fan. Just two days following the controversial sinking of the Argentine cruiser General Belgrano, Argentina cites reports of U.S. intelligence assistance to the British to help them carry out this military attack. Ambassador Shlaudeman (U.S. Ambassador to Argentina) writes that the Argentine government states the US has 'at least one spy satellite' in the south Atlantic and that a great part of the information which it obtains is transmitted to the U.K". The Argentines also cited Secretary of Defense Caspar Weinberger as saying that the U.S. would assist the British with any type of support they might need.

On May 14th the National Security Council outlined measures with regards to U.S.-declared support for Britain in the Falklands crisis, which included "suspension of all military exports to Argentina," removal of their certification to receive military sales, and "withholding of new Export-Import bank credits" to Argentina.

JUNE 3, 1982 - THE U.S. AND THE U.K. VETO A U.N. RESOLUTION DRAFTED BY PANAMA AND SPAIN THAT CALLS FOR AN IMMEDIATE CEASEFIRE.

JUNE 11-14 1982 – BRITISH FORCES ATTACK AND TAKE PORT STANLEY, BRINGING AN END TO THE FALKLANDS WAR. TOTAL DEATHS FOR THE FALKLANDS WAR ARE APPROXIMATELY 650 ARGENTINES AND 250 BRITISH. 3 FALKLAND RESIDENTS DIED DURING THE CONFRONTATION. OVER 11,500 ARGENTINE SOLDIERS ARE TAKEN AS PRISONERS OF WAR.

I guess "neutrality" is in the eye of the beholder...
 

Jeff Young

GT40s Supporter
Where did I say we were "neutral" during the Falklands War? I said our official policy since 1940 has not changed. It hasn't.

Dude, you are so wrong on this you just need to fess up.

In fact, the Argies expected US support for the invasion in part due to existing policy and in part due to some of the things State had been telling them about US ambivalence to the Brit claim to the Falklands. The Argies were surprised when the US provided some support to the Brits during the war but both before and after the US tried to get a brokered deal that involved, ultimately, the Falklands essentially being like Hong Kong -- under Argie administration but preserving Brit law/customs.

Back to the basic, simple, single factoid. That movie was fucking blatant BULLSHIT about the President on this issue. He's not "anti-American" or "anti-Colonial" -- at least not any more than Truman, Eisnhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, your GodReagan, Bush, Clinton and Bush II. All the same policy, all the time.

So you didn't answer my question. Assuming all of those folks maintained that same policy, you would also consider them anti-colonial and anti-american, correct?

What a load of tripe you guys are so quick to lap up. Amazing.

P.S. Go check the President's approval rating in the UK and then get back to me.
 

Jim Craik

Lifetime Supporter
Jeff,

I thought about what you said, so I checked. Here is some interesting info.

President Obamas approval ratings in other Countries............


Iran....................9% Approve Obama (lowest of any Country)

Egypt................19% Approve Obama

Pakistan.............26% Approve Obama

--------------

U.K...................67% Approve of Obama


This film paints a picture of a President Obama being "weirdly sympathetic to Muslim jihadists" at the same time stabbling the Brits in the back.

The facts tell a different story, do they not?
 

Jim Craik

Lifetime Supporter
Jeff,

I thought about what you said, so I checked. Here is some interesting info.

President Obamas approval ratings in other Countries............


Iran....................9% Approve Obama (lowest of any Country)

Egypt................19% Approve Obama

Pakistan.............26% Approve Obama

--------------

U.K...................67% Approve of Obama


This film paints a picture of a President Obama being "weirdly sympathetic to Muslim jihadists" at the same time stabbling the Brits in the back.

The facts tell a different story, do they not?

So this movie contends that President Obama is sympathetic to Muslim Jihadists and hates the Brits........................The facts seem to show just the opposite.

He is killing Jihadists at a good clip and the jihadists can see that. While its the Brits have a weirdly sympathetic view of Obama, their approval rate is even higher than in the US.

Can anyone explain how this movie could come to a conclusion that is so far removed from the facts?
 
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Pat

Supporter
Where did I say we were "neutral" during the Falklands War? I said our official policy since 1940 has not changed. It hasn't.

Dude, you are so wrong on this you just need to fess up.

Jeff, the Falklands war was in 1982, (Hint: that was after 1940...) Your response is worthy of John Kerry, were they for neutrality before they were against it?

If you wish to complain to the editorial departments of the UK media who apparently share Mr. D'Souza's view, you may reach them here.

Follow us - Telegraph

As for Mr. Obama's popularity, some may differ with your contention. While certainly a continued, (albeit trending lower) in Europe, it is a different story elsewhere. The sharpest drop in confidence in Obama has been in China, where support has fallen from 62% in 2009 to just 38% this year. He commands similar backing in Russia. -UK Guardian
But that's certainly understandable. The Chinese have to wonder how-and if- the US is ever going to be able to repay all the money they are borrowing. Jim rightfully pointed out that Mr. Obama is no favorite in the Muslim world. This is in spite of those relationships being directed by the President as major function of NASA. What Jim didn't mention is that the numbers he references reflect that Muslim outreach efforts by Mr. Obama have apparently been a failure.
Obama To Renew Muslim Outreach
As a reminder, Mr. Obama's state department referred to the UK indicating:
"There’s nothing special about Britain. You’re just the same as the other 190 countries in the world. You shouldn’t expect special treatment."
Such a comment by a representative of the State Department - an institution that never saw a foreign government it wanted to offend - is a sign of how serious Team Obama is about “resetting” the U.S.-U.K. relationship. Of course, as that term applies to friendly Britain, it means something very different than when used to describe the administration’s desire for improved ties with America’s enemies, actual or potential, like Russia, Iran and “Palestine.” -Canada Free Press
That opinion might also seek to reinforce Mr. D'Souza's views on Mr. Obama's antipathy for the UK.
Your apparent hysteria over Mr. D'Souza's overall views indicates he's really hit a nerve. But you must admit they help explain Mr. Obama's statements during the 2008 Philadelphia debate with Ms. Clinton.

CHARLES GIBSON (ABC News): All right. You have, however, said you would favor an increase in the capital gains tax. As a matter of fact, you said on CNBC, and I quote, "I certainly would not go above what existed under Bill Clinton," which was 28 percent. It's now 15 percent. That's almost a doubling, if you went to 28 percent.
But actually, Bill Clinton, in 1997, signed legislation that dropped the capital gains tax to 20 percent.
Mr. OBAMA: Right.
GIBSON: And George Bush has taken it down to 15 percent.
OBAMA: Right.
GIBSON: And in each instance, when the rate dropped, revenues from the tax increased; the government took in more money. And in the 1980s, when the tax was increased to 28 percent, the revenues went down.
So why raise it at all, especially given the fact that 100 million people in this country own stock and would be affected?
OBAMA: Well, Charlie, what I've said is that I would look at raising the capital gains tax for purposes of fairness.

What???? "Fairness”???? The government isn’t taxing to fund its operations but for the purpose of redistributive “Fairness”???
These comments were baffling to me at the time but given Mr. D'Souza's context they make perfect sense. Any truly concerned liberal who favors increasing the size of government given such a situation would merely seek to find the rate that maximizes tax revenue, and then the progressivity issue could have been dealt with on the spending side by using that money to expand a social program (or redistribution program like EITC). Everyone would win (i.e. a free lunch), and we could "build our infrastructure, pay for everyone's health care, build our schools, (insert big government program here that sounds good to voters or pander to the special interest group du jour) and worry about how to pay for it after the next party takes power. But then (as Mr. D'Souza points out), Mr. Obama is not a traditional liberal.
 
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Keith

Moderator
Jeff,

I thought about what you said, so I checked. Here is some interesting info.

President Obamas approval ratings in other Countries............


Iran....................9% Approve Obama (lowest of any Country)

Egypt................19% Approve Obama

Pakistan.............26% Approve Obama

--------------

U.K...................67% Approve of Obama


This film paints a picture of a President Obama being "weirdly sympathetic to Muslim jihadists" at the same time stabbling the Brits in the back.

The facts tell a different story, do they not?

These figures are easy to explain. 1. We here in the UK do not understand US politics, 2. are successful importers of your gang culture, and 3. the sample tested was 12 people and they were all from Brixton :) (see point 2)
 

Jim Craik

Lifetime Supporter
Veek,

How ya doing, its nice to hear from a thoughtfull, as well as stable, Conservative once in a while:)

As a reminder, Mr. Obama's state department referred to the UK indicating:
"There’s nothing special about Britain. You’re just the same as the other 190 countries in the world. You shouldn’t expect special treatment."

Veek, you do know, this quote came from a supposidly anonomous State Dept Person in March of 2009, three and a half years ago?
 
That's the trouble with quotes. I get more frustrated (not that anyone should care) in here, because of all the US guys constantly quoting. No one bothers (at least it seems that way) to check the source. I would never stake my reputation on a quote that cannot be a) verified, or b) checked as to it's relevance.

I lurve ya'll, really, but, get ba grip, the lot of you.

What the hell are you all talking about the Falklands for? That's like arguing over the U.S.A's stance on the Suez 'Crisis'. Or is that next? You do realise don't you, that it's too late now to change history? By all means let your 'hero's' re-write it if you must, but none of it matters now anyway.

Quit bitchin over who said what to whom and who started it first. It's a furkin school-yard mentality in here. You all make good points at times, but you just cannot accept that it seems. Shit slingers.
 
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