GT40s.com Paddock Politics Thread

[Howard Jones]

It's a because of b. Damn I just couldn't help myself. Back on the program.

 

[Doug S.]

Children that are raised in households that are subsidized or just flat out given to them are exposed from birth to a system which seems to legitimize that lifestyle. They are encouraged to take the easy road and perpetuate this and the cycle starts over yet again.
So my question would be - how do you break the cycle?

Education, Randy. The blame for an awful lot of crime can be placed squarely on the burden of poverty...which can quite often be blamed on lack of education. Time and time again it has been shown that a decent education, whether academic post-secondary or vocational, can be the ticket out of the ghetto.

I guess there may always be a few "Welfare Queens" around, but my experiences have convinced me that most individuals would much rather put in a good day's work for a good day's pay than engage in illegal activities that could get them imprisoned, injured or killed.

I worry that our current POTUS will prioritize enriching the already wealthy and show little interest in the poverty stricken. If that occurs I anticipate we will see further discontent, unrest and perhaps more violence from those with few options.

Cheers!!!

Doug

 

[Keith]

Trying not to be partisan here Doug but there's also a significant number of major benefit receivers who are of the criminal pursuasion. It's one of the most unfortunate aspects of public perception towards those in receipt of state aid and serves only to reinforce a regretfully innaccurate stereotype. Of course there are many who think that anyone receiving state aid is a fraud anyway, and I can't help that, but when I was of working age 2-3 yrs from retirement, the State stepped in and supported me and I could not have managed without it. The reason for that is quite simple: in the preceding 6-7 years I spent all of my liquid assets supporting myself following a violent criminal injury which finished my career. Of course, I could have kept my money & claimed benefits but I didn't. Why? Call it a cultural and generational thing. It was how I was raised...

 

[Doug S.]

It was how I was raised...

I understand that fully, Keith...it's how our generation was raised, to be self-sufficient to the maximum possible and when any sort of governmental assistance was available use it for the least amount of time and $$ necessary. I suffered an industrial fall when I was in my 20's that left me in a hospital for 9 weeks and in a cast for 9 months. Our government's Social Security "Total/temporary Disability" program stepped in and provided me with enough money to eat each month for a while, but if it were not for the government's required "Workers Compensation" insurance I would surely have been homeless. It took a lengthy court battle to finally bring the contractor to their knees, and only then was I able to relax a little...and I lost 33% every month to the blood-sucking lawyers. Guess I should be thanking them for the remaining 67%, huh?

I say "...a little" because I was raised to not take any form of public assistance, it was just what my family expected. I went to college on about $200/month in Social Security and veteran's survivors benefits (my father had died), and felt badly enough about that. In the end I made good use of the time I was unable to work and went back to school. I did apply for assistance from our government's "Vocational Rehabilitation" division, but since I already had a Bachelor's Degree the department could not help me. The agent was livid, said that if a drug addict came to him he could pay for that individual to get a 4-year degree, but since I had one already he could not help me. I went back to school and it took 2 years to get the Master's Degree...but long before that happened I had contacted S/S and told them to stop sending me the money every month. The education I got made it possible for me to repay all those $$$ from Social Security and the Veteran's Administration many times over because of the increased earning power it provided.

I know I was lucky, in so many ways...but many times we make our own luck and a healthy dose of "a stubborn nature" goes a long way. There were many times that a bag of pinto beans and a small ham fed me for weeks on end...I was just stubborn enough to NOT want to ask for help.

I have no sympathy for the criminal element...whether they are getting undeserved benefits or whether they are earning (???) their living from illegal activities. I believe that "Welfare" should be short term (B. Clinton replaced it with "Workfare" for a while and that seemed to be successful), and that once a person recovers from whatever caused them to need to be on welfare their tax refunds should be dedicated to repaying the government for their generosity. Nobody is born with a certificate of "entitlement" and we in the great mid-west would not have it any other way!!!

If Trump manages to get the "Welfare Queens" off the public dole I will have renewed respect for him. Our older cities are becoming war zones in the ghetto areas and those welfare queens need to get an education so that they can afford to move to safer housing...and pay their own way, regardless of how many children they have CHOSEN to bear.

Cheers!

Doug

 

[Keith]

Indeed Doug, in my younger days it was considered somewhat 'shameful' to claim National Assistance as it was then known. Kind of a public admission of failure. That emotion is long gone and now replaced by a sense of entitlement. I must cost the state in medical support and pension something in the order of $40,000 per year, with 2/3rds of that being medical costs for medication and oxygen etc. When I publicly show some chagrin at the amount I am costing the State, the stock reply is "you're entitled to it - you paid in for it" like it was some kind of savings club.

The fact is that no we didn't (pay in for it) at least not to the level it's now hemorrhaging out. With longer life expectancy, the rock & roll years effects kicking in and people claiming state aid for a "bad back" it's little wonder we're in fiscal shit. I don't think people are prepared to take the pain to straighten any of this stuff out and I don't know what the answer is.

I'll tell you this much though, much of it came about from the instigation of "Big Government" policies via Socialism. I know there are people (from the UK) who will disagree and it doesn't mean that the alternative and much preferred (to me) "Big Society" has to be heartless either. It just means people will have to learn to take care of themselves for a change..

If I was a refugee living in a mud hut, heck even if I wasn't, I would be 'climbing the walls' to get free stuff too.

Can Trump sort your shit out? I have my doubts and there will probably be mucho civil disorder on the way as soon as the 'free stuff' starts disappearing. As for the UK, a British exit from the EU is a good start, but I don't think we've got the balls any more. May is no Thatcher.

Sorry for the long post Doug. Are you asleep yet? I am nearly, just taken my meds courtesy of the British taxpayer.

 

[Jack]

Keith and Doug,
Good posts, thanks.
Although I have had many opportunities, I have never applied for
any assistance in my life.

 

[Keith]

Oh, now that really makes me feel good Jack...:uneasy:

 

[Randy V]

Good posts guys!

I was forced to collect unemployment insurance for a few months in order to stay afloat during a rough spell. I got off it as soon as possible and started a business basically on a shoestring. Got up on my feet and have been there ever since.
I too was raised with a great work/life ethic and we were taught that assistance was not shameful unless you just gave up on trying to make it on your own.

Also ---

I don't know about other areas of the country, but the public school system in Minneapolis is really good and if the students try to take advantage of the programs, they can leave school well prepared for life on their own and/or college.

 

[Keith]

I should point out of course that the medical costs I incur are not a 'benefit' per ce, as we have "free" health care in the UK.

There, I almost made myself feel better..:quirk:

 

[Doug S.]

I NEVER thought I would have anything good to say about Gee-Dub...but I have to eat some crow, here.

I am somewhat of an artist in my free time...hand thrown pottery, stained glass and wood are my primary mediums. I freely admit that I SUCK at 2-dimensional art and also freely admit I admire anyone who is good at 2-D.

Add George Herbert Walker Bush to that list now! The Today show featured some of his paintings of wounded warriors today...while they may APPEAR to be somewhat primitive, keep in mind that "they" said Van Gogh's work was primitive, too. Bush's brush work captures the angst of those soldiers in a manner that escapes me...and transcends the ability to describe, much less emulate. I hope his work gets the artistic respect it deserves!

He may not be my favorite in the political arena (understatement is only one of the many fine services I offer), but he is now one of my art heroes!!

There, I said it. For some reason that crow doesn't taste as bad as I thought it would :thumbsup:

Cheers to good ol' Gee-Dub, from Doug!!

 

[Keith]

Sorry Doug but without pics it's a non event. I'd like to take your word for it, indeed I'm quite intrigued to see what he accomplished and whether, in some small way, there were any similarities in execution to other world "leaders" and their own artistic daubings. Adolph Hitler & Winston Churchill come to mind...

 

[Doug S.]

I did a web search for Gee-Dub's artwork, came up with a few hits, one of which was "daily mail.co.uk"

There was no URL I could copy, Keith...sorry.

My google search was for "George Bush Art" if you'd like to try it...there was what looked like an entire wall of portraits...and to further increase my respect for his art there were 3 paintings along with photographs of the subjects...it amazed me how accurate his paintings were!

Hope you find them, Keith...I suspect his art is probably more primitive than that of the other two you mentioned.

Now that you bring up Hitler, though, it begs the question...how sought after are Hitler's works? I just wonder if his paintings outsell Churchill's, or vice-versa. Notoriety can create demand...but it is hard to believe that given Hitler's story he would be in very high demand. The world of art does not often reflect logic, though.

Cheers!

Doug

 

[Jac Mac]

Try 'paintings by GW Bush' as a search, ( perhaps they dont qualify as art yet!... Putin, Saddam, Blair, Leno... heaps of others.

 

[Pete McCluskey.]

Wow you guys do on a bit, don't you? Don't get me wrong as an outsider I enjoy the to and throw. I wish I knew more about the subject. Personally I thought Trump was a looney who could never win the election, but he did, now he seems to being better than I thought he would be. Good luck America, we will be at your Side.

 

[Doug S.]

Personally I thought Trump was a looney who could never win the election, but he did, now he seems to being better than I thought he would be. Good luck America, we will be at your Side.

Most of the people I know (I live in a VERY conservative state) thought Trump would not win, too....and we all thought he was a looney, too!

...as for doing better than we thought he would, well, that's where we differ. Most of us think his twitter war of words with anyone who does not idolize him is decidedly unpresidential. His address to congress was a bright moment, but he just reverted to his old self right after that.

I, for one, freely admit that I am embarrased by the way he wants to fight with everyone except Putin, who IMHO represents a great threat to the U.S.

We will see how this plays out. His approval numbers are much lower than expected...and if he maintains his present activities I expect them to go lower.

Whether that will lead to a change in leadership at our next national election remains to be seen. There is a radical element here in the U.S. who likes his adversarial demeanor.

Cheers!

Doug

 

[Doug S.]

Well, it's been a while since President Trump took office and the loony-tunes tweets and paranoid claims just keep on rolling. This is going to be a bumpy ride for not only Trump, but also for us U.S. citizens. It would be nice if he would settle down, but that doesn't seem like his style. It seems to me that he thought the Republican takeover of our government would create a carte-blanche situation for him. Thank goodness Paul Ryan has, in a very unexpected manner, become the voice of reason in what seems an unreasonable world our POTUS is trying to create.

Now if someone will find a way to keep President Trump from bankrupting us with a very unpopular and expensive wall along our southern border it would be a relief. After having lived in TX for 30+ years, it is obvious to me that we cannot keep all undocumented immigrants out of our country (that wall will be easy to circumvent with a fairly short boat ride or a swim around the end of the wall) so a more reasonable method needs to be devised...geostable satellites with high definition cameras to detect surreptitious entrants (and guide the increased number of border patrol agents right to their hiding places) might be one way, but there must be other ways, too.

He has already destroyed our reputation with the rest of the world; hopefully, other than impeachment (perhaps a possibility if his outrageous paranoid claims continue??) there must be some way our country can tell him "YOU'RE FIRED!!!

Just hoping for something for which we can cheer :thumbsdown:

Doug

 

[Malcolm]

A question;

Which leader is going to last longer?

Donald Trump as President or Jeremy Corbyn as leader of Labour?

Both seem to me to be doing stuff that will not be tolerated forever, so who will crash and burn first? Both seem to have good survival instincts but neither playing by traditional rules. Years to go till the next elections. Can they make it that far?

 

[Randy V]

I have my doubts that Trump will make it two years before he is impeached. I just hope he gets the Supreme Court and Foreign Trade issues straightened out before then.

 

[Doug S.]

Malcolm, I think your country is in a better position to rid itself of a rogue leader than the U.S. because of your process of holding "no confidence" votes. Admittedly, I am not fully familiar with all of your political procedures, but it seems like that process provides you with a way to remove politicians who do not live up to their campaign promise (as well as their promises). We do not have that option, other than the impeachment process, which can be quite rigorous to initiate. Our new President seems, IMHO, to treat his position almost as one of royalty rather than one of obligation to our citizens. His business acumen is undeniable and he does seem to be accomplishing some of the things he promised (not that I like the promises he made), but his rampant nepotism might, IMHO, lead to his eventual downfall, as we do have rather strict prohibitions against that. Impeachment is a process that MAY result in removal, but personally I do not think it will be successful because of the strangle-hold the Republicans have on congress.

I think we are stuck with him for 4 years...hope you are not in the same situation.

Cheers!!

Doug

 

[Keith]

I would really not compare Trump with Corbyn at all. Corbyn is part of what we elder Brits refer to as the "Loony Left" and as such he's a simply the Leader of the Opposition, and has little if any power to do harm (or good for that matter). Having said that, we need some kind of foil to the(whichever flavour) current Govt in power. That is the principle of democracy - to have a choice. Blair snatched power because he, somewhat cleverly, pulled the rug out from beneath the Tories by instigating many policies that were the darlings of the right, while somewhat uncleverly, instigating many policies that were the darlings of the left, i.e. Big Govt and all the fiscal waste and bureaucratic baggage that goes with it. But the upshot of it all was that politics in the country became mired in the wishy-washy centre ground, not necessarily a good place to be to get things done; to turn things around.

I'm not saying that Corbyn is in anyway competent as a potential leader but at least he ably demonstrates the difference between political systems.

The final problem with British politics today is that we are fast approaching an undesirable binary political system which hasn't done much for the USA in the past 50 years. OK, we have the Noughts and Ones but we need some Two's and Threes as well... Liberal Democrats? UKIP? Don't make me laugh...