Nicks Forte Scratch Build - to Stunning Mk1 GTD

NickD

Supporter
David,

Many Thanks. Yep, 2k/Year would be about the max I would do so it makes no sense to worry about this issue in the great scheme of all the other small Issues I will have to contend with.

I'm certainly not going dry sump and cost is a major factor so the Audi Box makes a lot of sense from that aspect alone.


Thanks.
 

Mike Pass

Supporter
Hi Nick,
On the subject of driveshaft and gearbox etc. when I was assisting a friend of mine to build his KVA we followed this simple method. Once the rear hubs and uprights were in place we set the chassis at it's normal ride height so that the uprights were at the correct relation to the chassis. We then assembled the engine and box in a roughly correct position by placing it on blocks, jack etc. we then used some metal tubing between the gearbox output flanges and the rear hubs to simulate the driveshafts as we did not have any at that stage. We then moved the whole engine and gear box around until we had the shafts horizontal and at right angles to the chassis centreline. Then the engine and gearbox mounts were made up and attached. The driveshafts were set up to run in as straight a way as possible. A small angle of a few degrees is permissible but large angles going upwards from the box to the hub is not good as this will increase as the car squats under acceleration and the cv.s can break. Whilst it is good to keep the engine and box low to lower the centre of gravity broken cv joints will leave you stranded. The engine can be set slightly lower than the box but this will mean the the engine is installed at an angle. A small angle is ok up to maybe 5 degrees. I have this on my car. To bring the carb back level you can buy or make "wedge plates" to bring it back to the horizontal. The other thing you need to do is drill the inlet manifold into the water passage at the high end and fit a bleed pipe back to the coolant tank otherwise air will collect at the end of the manifold and cause overheating.
If you need any pics drop me a PM via the forum as I have lots of pics of different parts of all the common replicas.
Cheers
Mike
 
Don't forget that the car itself should be at an angle, don't forget that if/when angling the engine! If your safe limit is 5 degrees then when assembling that's probably only 4.5 degrees!

Do you have a copy of the plans for the GT Forte gearbox mounting brackets? They're meant for the 01E and means that by using them you'll be able to use the same other components as the other builders (eg driveshafts etc).

Also IIRC driveshafts should not be totally square and horizontal but should be angled back or forwards slightly as otherwise they wear quicker.

PS same goes for the 'library' of pictures. :)
 

NickD

Supporter
Thanks Chaps,

The support and advice is most welcome. I'm hoping to get the chassis finished either this weekend or next and will then post some more pics.

For info, I'm going to drill chassis / panels and test fit as much as I can before having the chassis cleaned and powder coated.

Best Regards.



Nick.
 
Nick:
Looking great so far..sometimes it feels like one has the proverbial tiger by the tail with these projects.
I have played with motor position on a lot of mid engine chassis and it is always somewhat of a compromise when using a wet sump pan and a non-inverted gearbox, but it all can be made to work well.
Most of the Ford 302 motor mounts have approx 3" spacing between the ears so when setting up you can tack up and move fore and aft quite a bit to get final position, also engine height is also going to be limited by how much of your oil pan hangs or does not below the chassis...some engine adapters are lower than the oil pan profile, and even with the pan flush you will still show something below.
As far as CV angle I have seen some extremes but keeping approx 5 deg would be a good guideline but modern CV's are designed to operate at pretty extreme angles intermittently (Front wheel Drive for example) but of course there is a lot of movement inside the joint to accommodate that angle. I am of the opinion that like a driveshaft CV joints should be setup with a slight angle so that there is always slight movement.
While you are setting motor position clearance at the front is also a big item...lots going on there with pulleys and hoses, if you can borrow one from a friend one of those plastic engine mock-ups can be very helpful as they are very lightweight and changes are easy to make.
I am using a 302 with a ZF gearbox and although my motor is lower than you can attain with the Audi the front to rear dimension will be very similar so if you get stuck I have those dimensions.
I don't know it offhand but if you can get the Audi dimension from the axle centerline to the back of the block that will help you with preliminary placement and possibly forsee any interference issues.
Good luck with the fit up
Cheers
Phil
 
Assuming the kit/plans are the same layout as my chassis the gearbox axle line is slap bang in the middle of the lower suspension mount point bracket (the reversed A-arms) onto the chassis.

I've got a measurement somewhere as well, I'll see if I can dig it out.
 

NickD

Supporter
Thanks guys, I'm a little older than most of you so my build will be slower (I may also ask similar things more than once), I'm now thinking of going stainless for the panelling. I know its a bitch to cut and fold as opposed to same size ally but it will buff a treat with the right tools. as I said before, weight is not a prob, just want to do my bucket job right.

Comments welcome ?
 

NickD

Supporter
Before I turn in for Today, I would like to say a couple of words about my chassis kit from Gt-Forte. Im well chuffed at having the chance to do a chassis build up where someone else takes the trouble to cut, angle and label the parts, ok !, couple of hiccups but I'd never have managed a lorry load of box and tube metal on the drive from the Acme steel company.

Support docs a bit thin here and there but with an engineers brain, and a measure twice and cut once mentality, its come on well.

Time will tell if your in my rear view mirror one day saying, " what a lovely car in front" or that old english sight of a mini crabing, what pillock put that chassis together, the front is not following the back !
 
Thanks guys, I'm a little older than most of you so my build will be slower (I may also ask similar things more than once), I'm now thinking of going stainless for the panelling. I know its a bitch to cut and fold as opposed to same size ally but it will buff a treat with the right tools. as I said before, weight is not a prob, just want to do my bucket job right.

Comments welcome ?

Nick,
Contact Dave Morton. He did his GTD in stainless, so will be able to share perspectives. I do know that he spent a fortune on drill bits :)

Also, if you haven't got one already, probably worth looking at one of these for creating the rivet holes in your panels rather than drilling: Power Hole Punch Set - Car Builder Solutions - Kit Car Parts, Tools and Accessories

Brett
 

NickD

Supporter
Had one of those long days Today. Found an 01E Audi Gearbox on eBay from an A4 TDI in great condition. Drove 200 miles before 9AM Today to pick it up and then realised on the way back home that I would pass within 25 miles of Statesideautoparts off the M1 so popped in and bought a working 302 still in its 1984 American Limo.

I was thinking of a 347 stroker but now think I'll keep it at 302, change the heads to alloy, let it breath easier and maybe put a stack Borla injection kit on it. (been following Bob's Texas build and that seems to be the way to go).

Total, 480 miles Today (borrowed dad's hatch back so a double bonus), he's 91 and never drives it so its got a good run, cob webs blown out of the pipes and a good wash during the cloud burst on the M1 at lunchtime. ;-)
 
It must be a stout little hatch back (I'm assuming you had a Trailer) to hump around a motor and a tranny and if you didn't have a trailer I'm really impressed. About the stainless, it looks fantastic but is no where as user friendly as alloy, you really need the write equipment to work with it. Cheers Leon.
 

NickD

Supporter
Following some requests, a pic of the 6 speed Audi box from a TDI which will make a good solid transaxle able to handle good torgue and comes with suitable gearing, alas, no LSD.
 

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If it's from an A4, it will 99% be a 01X. Nothing wrong with that, as it's stronger than the old 016 that have stood up behind 40s before.

Nick, check to see if the middle case is aluminium. If it is a 01X, then give me a bell, I have one too.

Brett
 

NickD

Supporter
Hi Chaps,

Yep, I went for an 01X. It came from a 2.0 TDI 2004 Audi A4.

It should suit my needs as I managed to get a 302 at the weekend as well and decided that I may keep it at that displacement instead of upping it to a 347 Stroker. From my check, this should be OK with the Torque and If I go 17" wheels the motor / gearbox combination should still give a modest top end.
 

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Nick:
I am also running a 302....had a chance to get the motor fully built with about 500 mi. on it..some goodies, roller cam, different heads etc. but it was in a Fox body Mustang that ran a 12.50 quarter mile so I think in a car that is 900 to 1000 lbs lighter it should go like the blazes and be reliable at the same time.
You made a good choice there.
Cheers
Phil
 
Not sure of the rating on the 01X but you (and Brett) are right, it'll be fine, especially as the far lighter GT40 should give it a much easier time than the lardy Audi.
 

NickD

Supporter
Thanks Brett, Dave & Phil. I'm going to put a few hours in on the chassis now so should have some latest pics in about 4 hours.
 
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