Only GT40ites will understand this- but I nearly clenched a deal on an original in bits only to be thwarted at the eleventh hour! To say I'm hartbroken is an understatement as I'd set my heart etc... I'm thus left with a "reasonably" serious amount of cash waiting for that special project. I'm looking worldwide for an original or tenant chassised GT40 in need of restoration, rebuilding or a pile of recognisable bits & pieces. I've nothing against SPFs, CAVs, ERAs etc, but I've set my sights on something with provinance.. a SAFIR MkV at a pinch, but absolutely nothing out of this world. I'll answer all serious offers on [email protected] Looking forward to some good news for a change... Andrew (London)
Original/Tenant Project Wanted Please
- Thread starter jazzyspies
- Start date
Jim Rosenthal
Supporter
Look for John Allen's web site..contact him. He of all people might know where there is an original waiting to be restored. I didn't know there were any unrestored ones left- the last one I knew of was 1040 and it was sold to someone who, as I understand it, IS going to have it restored.
Not sure I can afford a completely bonefida original in pieces, but perhaps a category 2 "original" e.g. a tennant car in need of restoration etc. Believe me I nearly had my dream come true.. "damn it"! Thanks to Jimbo and Doc Watson for the latters PM. I've been to Mirage and their product is magnificent, but without the provenance I desire. We all know what I'm talking about, but it's difficult to put into words.. "like telling a stranger about rock & roll"! I was offered P1086 for $3.5M which is as out of this world as the spacemen Jimi Hendrix was trying to tell about that rock & roll... "sigh".. Andrew
Andrew you should talk to Frank, as in Sbarro 
The absence of anything remotely original apart from a sliver of an original chassis, a bent ID plate or even just a bolt or two didn't deter him from turning out some fine "originals" with all the provenance you'll ever need! (It is alleged)
Seriously though, the "grandfather's axe" syndrome guarantees there's not many truly original cars out there, so you could start with a part....
The absence of anything remotely original apart from a sliver of an original chassis, a bent ID plate or even just a bolt or two didn't deter him from turning out some fine "originals" with all the provenance you'll ever need! (It is alleged)
Seriously though, the "grandfather's axe" syndrome guarantees there's not many truly original cars out there, so you could start with a part....
I'm no expert on these things but I've been studying the market dynamics for original cars for a couple of years now - I have a friend who is quite well off (very early days Microsoftee) and interested in acquiring an original car (in any condition), but who wants to feel like he made a good buy and paid a little less than market so that if he does sell at some point down the road he's not going to lose a whole ton of money on the car.
Just an original bare chassis with recognized/verified # starts at about $1,000,000 USD. If the car is relatively complete it's $1,500,000-2,000,000 USD. If the car has any race history then it's $2,000,000+ with LeMans winners in the $3,000,000+ category. Ouch.
If it's not an original and recognized chassis then you should be able to get something very, very nice for $250,000-500,000 I would think.
Post some pics when you find a fit!
Just an original bare chassis with recognized/verified # starts at about $1,000,000 USD. If the car is relatively complete it's $1,500,000-2,000,000 USD. If the car has any race history then it's $2,000,000+ with LeMans winners in the $3,000,000+ category. Ouch.
If it's not an original and recognized chassis then you should be able to get something very, very nice for $250,000-500,000 I would think.
Post some pics when you find a fit!
Sorry to hear of your loss Andrew I photographed P1086 when it was being built in the 1980's at Duncan Hamiltons in Bagshot. P1086 being the last GT40 chassis but not numbered. I think Cliffbears previous pricing is way out. The Le Mans winner P1075 would fetch £1000000 if it came up for sale. If a Cobra Daytona Coupe can make £4.5 million. Then P1075 is certainly worth double. What the 1967 Le Mans winner MKIV J5 is worth I do not know but it would be the USA market where interest would lay. P1046 the MKII 1966 Le Mans winner would be the same. Going back to P1075 since this car was not a true Ford works car. Ford had pulled out of endurance racing in 1967.When the all American MKIV J5 won and the engine size rules changed. P1075 does hold some firsts it was the first car to win Le Mans conseculatively the first racecar to use carbon fibre strands in its bodywork. But nowadays it is except in the USA (?) I suppose the template for what a GT40 looks like?? I suppose by default it has become the GT40 holy grail. Even surpassing P1046 and J5 (not a GT40 anyway). Those three cars are the pinincle of GT40 status. The other MKII's, MKIV's, Mirage M1, Allan Mann light weights, the Ford GT roadster and the seven MKIII's would also command high prices.
How is it that a car P1086 that was just a rolling chassis when production stopped. And was bought but John Willment in 1971 but built in the 1984 can command an asking price of $3.5 million???!!!!! Because the original GT40 is a valuable commodity and originals in any form are in a limited finite supply.
Regards Allan
How is it that a car P1086 that was just a rolling chassis when production stopped. And was bought but John Willment in 1971 but built in the 1984 can command an asking price of $3.5 million???!!!!! Because the original GT40 is a valuable commodity and originals in any form are in a limited finite supply.
Regards Allan
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Alan. thank you, but something's only worth what someone will pay. I'm unique, but no-one will offer me anything for me! What I nearly clinched was a tenant car in bits with some of that wonderful and mystical provenance, but no P1075. believe me! Although with a bare minimum of provenance, P1129, a Safir car had been offered to me some time ago for Euro1.7k. That was wehn us Brits could afford to buy stuff from Europe and I should've thought more clearly about it then. If I don't get what I'm looking for, then a nice Superformance might help for now, but my yearing won't go away that easily. "HELP"...!) might do
OK guys... I don't let the grass grow and I think I might just have done it. Not a 100% original (how many are), not even an original with dodgey history (e.g. Sbaro), but something which, in my mind, is worthy of mention in this thread. I will give you all more details later, but the DNA begins with the bodywork off a P10** car, dating back to 1965 and with all the marks and arcaelogical paint layers to prove authenticity. Replacement original-style monocoque ( but not Abbey Panels unfortunately), 1965 GT40 289 ci and ZF-0 transaxle. It's got original quad Webbers on a period manifold, magnesium Halibrands and lots of other original bits in boxes. I can't say at present which car the body shell came from as it's a bit classified, but I will in due course and furnish photographs. Indeed, the rebuild will be documented for those historians out there. I'm so excited, I haven't slept for two nights and my wife's threatened divorce over remortgaging the house.. oh well.. looks like the new Mrs K will be only 40" high"!... Andrew
Jim Rosenthal
Supporter
PLEASE let us know more about this as it progresses. We are all ears and eyes over this one. Original GT40 stuff comes along once in a millenium; last century we had Chris Melia and his adventures, now we have yours. So you have to tell us all about it. Congratulations.
How much for the wife?
I can see I've got you all thinking. Well, nothing's in the bag, but I've traced an almost complete original pile of bits from a 65 car including ZF-0 box, actual complete body, GT40 289 motor + flywheel/dual plate clutch, suspension/uprights, steering and monocoque, plus loads of other authentic parts. It's all from p10**, which has been rebuilt to concours standards, but has lost it's originality in my way of thinking. All will be revealled, but it might take some time. To say I'm excited is an understatement.. Andrew
Jim Rosenthal
Supporter
Good for you. I hope you are young and wealthy- a "pile of bits" such as that fairly begs to be finished out with as many original pieces as you can find, or exact repros of same, which will take you a while. But it's a worthwhile project. And we expect photos as soon as any are available.
OK guys.. hopefully there'll be some images of the bodywork in need of a "little" TLC and my ZF-0 gearbox. Photos of the Cobra 289 and restorable but original scrapped chassis to follow in due course.. Andrew
![gt40_tub_002[1].jpg](/data/attachments/33/33935-42ca9de1d9ed8b0549bc8ad9a5794382.jpg)
![gt40_tub_001[1].jpg](/data/attachments/33/33936-47599456e8dd23509f73db53443d788d.jpg)
Hi John... nope, it was trash.
Update- I've now got Lee Dawson, who used to produce the GTD40 bodies, to begin the restoration of my P/1001 front & rear clips, and here's what he fund which ties in nicely with the history books-"hello Andrew
just a quick note to tell you what I have found so far with your bodywork.
I've made a start on the rear clip and have made some possibly interesting finds.
firstly I don't know what that blue paints made of but it's very tough.
then working through the layers we have the yellow under the blue.
at this time, I'll point out that both of the rear wheel arches where replaced before the clip was painted blue.
under the yellow we have white. with this it has three green stripes. a wide stripe of 280mm through the middle of the clip and either side of this an approximately 50mm gap and then a 25mm stripe. under this stripe is another green stripe of a different green but possibly an earlier try at the striping??
now to the first colours, which was also white but with a wide red stripe of 355mm through the middle of the clip with a black stripe of 25mm either side ( essex wire?? )
very interesting don't you think?? would be good to hear your thoughts.
am taking photo's as I go for reference.
not gotten on to the front clip yet.
will keep in touch
best regards Lee
"
just a quick note to tell you what I have found so far with your bodywork.
I've made a start on the rear clip and have made some possibly interesting finds.
firstly I don't know what that blue paints made of but it's very tough.
then working through the layers we have the yellow under the blue.
at this time, I'll point out that both of the rear wheel arches where replaced before the clip was painted blue.
under the yellow we have white. with this it has three green stripes. a wide stripe of 280mm through the middle of the clip and either side of this an approximately 50mm gap and then a 25mm stripe. under this stripe is another green stripe of a different green but possibly an earlier try at the striping??
now to the first colours, which was also white but with a wide red stripe of 355mm through the middle of the clip with a black stripe of 25mm either side ( essex wire?? )
very interesting don't you think?? would be good to hear your thoughts.
am taking photo's as I go for reference.
not gotten on to the front clip yet.
will keep in touch
best regards Lee
"
Here's the complete race history for P/1001. The crash damage from the 1968 Spa incident is self evident in the front clip. Any other info on this car is always welcome. Andrew
GT40 P 1001 06/66 : Le Mans, 60, Ickx/Neerpasch, DNF -
08/66 : Brands Hatch, 109, Rees, DNF -
09/66 : Zeltweg, 2, Ireland/Spence, 10th -
11/66 : Kyalami, Hobbs/Spence, DNF - Killarney, Hobbs/Hailwood, DNF -
12/66 : Kumalo event 2, Hobbs, 1st - Kumalo event 4, Hailwood, 1st -
Lourenco Marques, 6, Hobbs, 2nd - Pietermaritzburg, 3, Hobbs/Hailwood,
1st -
01/67 : Kyalami, Hobbs, DNF -
03/67 : Snetterton, 51, Hulme, 2nd - Silverstone, 1, Hulme, 1st -
04/67 : Silverstone, 28, Hulme, 2nd -
05/67 : Silverstone, 43, Gardner, DNF - Crystal Palace, 41, Gardner, 4th
-
06/67 : Oulton Park, 149, Lucas, DNS - 07/67 : Silverstone, 41, Lucas,
DNF - Brands Hatch, 51, Lucas/Pike, DNF -
08/67 : Croft, 30, Lucas, DNS - Zeltweg, 1, Hulme/Lucas, DNF - Brands
Hatch, 55, Lucas, DNF - 04/68 : Monza, Raeburn/Shenken, DNF -
05/68 : Zandvoort, Raeburn - Nuerburgring, Smith/Raeburn, 20th - Spa, 41,
Raeburn/Shenken, DNF -
06/68 : Silverstone, Cox, 4th - Brands Hatch SGT, Cox, 8th - Brands Hatch
Libre, Cox, 5th - Silverstone SGT, 125, Cox, 2nd - Silverstone Libre,
125, Cox, 1st - Snetterton, 190, Cox, DNS - Snetterton, 190, Cox, DNF -
Silverstone SGT, Cox, 1st - Silverstone, Cox, 3rd -
07/68 : Vila Real, Raeburn, 10th - Hockenheim, Raeburn, 11th -
Snetterton, 102, Cox, 3rd -
08/68 : Brands Hatch, 100, Cox, 8th -
09/68 : Snetterton, 133, Cox, DNS - Snetterton, 133, Cox, DNS - Crystal
Palace, 81, Cox, 6th - Silverstone, Cox, 3rd - Oulton Park, 59, Cox, 3rd
- Thruxton, 167, Cox, 4th -
05/69 : Silverstone, 14, Daghorn, 10th - Oulton Park, Daghorn, 12th -
07/69 : Croft, 7, Williams, 13th -
08/69 : Thruxton, 9, Daghorn, 7th
GT40 P 1001 06/66 : Le Mans, 60, Ickx/Neerpasch, DNF -
08/66 : Brands Hatch, 109, Rees, DNF -
09/66 : Zeltweg, 2, Ireland/Spence, 10th -
11/66 : Kyalami, Hobbs/Spence, DNF - Killarney, Hobbs/Hailwood, DNF -
12/66 : Kumalo event 2, Hobbs, 1st - Kumalo event 4, Hailwood, 1st -
Lourenco Marques, 6, Hobbs, 2nd - Pietermaritzburg, 3, Hobbs/Hailwood,
1st -
01/67 : Kyalami, Hobbs, DNF -
03/67 : Snetterton, 51, Hulme, 2nd - Silverstone, 1, Hulme, 1st -
04/67 : Silverstone, 28, Hulme, 2nd -
05/67 : Silverstone, 43, Gardner, DNF - Crystal Palace, 41, Gardner, 4th
-
06/67 : Oulton Park, 149, Lucas, DNS - 07/67 : Silverstone, 41, Lucas,
DNF - Brands Hatch, 51, Lucas/Pike, DNF -
08/67 : Croft, 30, Lucas, DNS - Zeltweg, 1, Hulme/Lucas, DNF - Brands
Hatch, 55, Lucas, DNF - 04/68 : Monza, Raeburn/Shenken, DNF -
05/68 : Zandvoort, Raeburn - Nuerburgring, Smith/Raeburn, 20th - Spa, 41,
Raeburn/Shenken, DNF -
06/68 : Silverstone, Cox, 4th - Brands Hatch SGT, Cox, 8th - Brands Hatch
Libre, Cox, 5th - Silverstone SGT, 125, Cox, 2nd - Silverstone Libre,
125, Cox, 1st - Snetterton, 190, Cox, DNS - Snetterton, 190, Cox, DNF -
Silverstone SGT, Cox, 1st - Silverstone, Cox, 3rd -
07/68 : Vila Real, Raeburn, 10th - Hockenheim, Raeburn, 11th -
Snetterton, 102, Cox, 3rd -
08/68 : Brands Hatch, 100, Cox, 8th -
09/68 : Snetterton, 133, Cox, DNS - Snetterton, 133, Cox, DNS - Crystal
Palace, 81, Cox, 6th - Silverstone, Cox, 3rd - Oulton Park, 59, Cox, 3rd
- Thruxton, 167, Cox, 4th -
05/69 : Silverstone, 14, Daghorn, 10th - Oulton Park, Daghorn, 12th -
07/69 : Croft, 7, Williams, 13th -
08/69 : Thruxton, 9, Daghorn, 7th
