Porsche 908/910 project

Michel, some remarks to your 907.
Of course, it's a task to "reproduce" this type of car.
Is it enough ? That's all the point!
For me, owner of a "works car", certainly not.
In a way it's a tremendous job, in another it's just a fake, were the most significative parts are not respected...in the design or the matter. Titanium is very expensive today so I can understand the problem. For certain parts as rear lights, it's too easy to adapt bad parts ... for the look but you are exposed to the laugh of those who knows that they are very easy to find today. You say you find parts through Chris Melia...He seems not to be the right horse !
They are guys actually who are much much precise and who respect the design and utilize the right process.
Your car value is for the best 50 000 $, a real one 2,5 M: isn't it a good resume ?

Jacques,

I would respectfully suggest that you try to obtain an engineering orientated brain, hopefully containing some common sense, before making the absurd comments that you have uttered.

If ,as you say, you are the owner of a "works car" I doubt very much that you drive it or even work on it, and I doubt that you have a fraction of the ability to create anything near the standard of Michels work.

You are a disgrace to come on to this forum with such disrespectful words
 

Terry Oxandale

Skinny Man
Michel, some remarks to your 907.
Of course, it's a task to "reproduce" this type of car.
Is it enough ? That's all the point!
For me, owner of a "works car", certainly not.
In a way it's a tremendous job, in another it's just a fake, were the most significative parts are not respected...in the design or the matter. Titanium is very expensive today so I can understand the problem. For certain parts as rear lights, it's too easy to adapt bad parts ... for the look but you are exposed to the laugh of those who knows that they are very easy to find today. You say you find parts through Chris Melia...He seems not to be the right horse !
They are guys actually who are much much precise and who respect the design and utilize the right process.
Your car value is for the best 50 000 $, a real one 2,5 M: isn't it a good resume ?

I could feel like shit now, but I won't, because...

The "point" is the exercise in fabrication and engineering which results in personal improvement, a dedicated devotion to completing a complex task, and the personal satisfaction in being able to say "I built this" versus "I bought this". The point is that accomplishing all the small tasks needed to complete such an awesome representation of a rare vehicle is rewarding in itself...period. The point is that the quantitative rewards are not considered as the incentive in starting and completing such an endeavor. The point is that these kinds of projects give inspiration and hope to many, that they may be able to do the same thing. That same hope of owning a real deal, or works car, is only a dream for 99% of gearheads everywhere. I have much more respect for those that design and build something, than for those that simply buy it, real or not. My first question when I seen something like this is "how did you do" this or that, not "how did you afford" this or that, or "how much do you think you'll get" for this or that.
 
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Michel, beautiful car, absolutely stunning. You've done a wonderful job, must be a real treat to drive. Thank you for the visuals.
 
Hello mates
Many thanks again to all for you kind comments !

In order not to be involved in useless conversation due to the comment of this very kind and polit member I want just to ask to everybody to watch how many post he did and check the first one !!!
I didn't even reply to that post so may be this could be a reason for psoting the second one !! LOL
Yes on my built there are "ugly" replicated parts ! yes there is no Titanium !!
Yes I enjoyed a lot to built this project and it is as I wanted to built it ; by alone and not with this spirit of " rivet counter " only the scoop to built something nice
Chris why do you need more parts ? you did with John a very nice job and you have now everything to built nicely your own beast so .................

The car have been on many others show or parade and it is an enjoyement to explain to all watchers that it was a pleasure to built this evocation of early racing cars ; everybody understand of course that it's not a real one and are so pleased when I show them that I built rear red lights on basis of tractor light LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL and who cares ?

Special thanks to Graham for your so kind comment !
 
Michel, You have a masterful creation that you should be proud of. The skill and determination are evident in the exercise. WELL DONE!
 
Michel, Jacques is what they call in this country a "HATER." In my opinion people like Jacques are born angry and stay angry and they love to "hate." Its what gets them through their day....bringing hatred to those they encounter in their daily lives. Your car is stunning and frankly even if it was a Lemans winning original car Jacques would find something to bitch about with it.

I'm not surprised you've received some substantial monetary offers for it because as many have posted including me...it really is a work of art and anyone would love to have it sitting in their garage. I concur with your handling of this issue, that being, just leave the guy to live his miserable existance.
 
Many thanks mates Jack and Jimmy and all others in pm !!

Am just concerned not to be born in UK or NZ , Australia , States where building cars is something noticiable and countries where doing a"Garage day " you can meet guys like you all and have a pint and barbecue talking about these projects and not money !!

Am not worried at all about this post as I have been building racing car for more than 40 years and I know perfectly the situation ; when you have only your personnal skills and can built something others dream, these guys are your best friends for the time you accept to work with them .
He probably have a "factory car " ... who care ... I have been on the biggest factory racing cars for Le mans to built much more cars he can afford and with my heart full of big and nice experiences my love in building is still there ;
considering that a race car ( watever she is) is material and human work and not a stupid amount of gold !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Michel,

Dave and I are sitting at my dinner table reading all the recent posts.

You know we have nothing but admiration for your car and your outstanding skills. :thumbsup:

This Jaques is truly a turkey and we both would like to take his car´s provenance to the nearby Porsche Museum.

All the best,

Marcus
 
Thanks Fred
Tanks Marcus

Just let this "smart and polite " member living with his personnal thoughts concerning"car recreation building .
What is important is all this international friendship existing in beetween us " homebuilders" and probably something he will never approach ;
To have nice drinks with fellows talking same stories about builts together and not "profit / dollars" with sofisticated cup of pricy champagne ( so boring !) !!!!!!

Something else ; If I had the opportunity to win big Lottery amount ..... my dream will not at all to buy a "factory real 907/8" or watever historic car but it will be to buy a hudge workshop very nicely equiped with autoclave , english wheel and all sort of nice tools I never was able to afford all along my life !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Creating and building with your own hands isn'nt much more satsifaction than going to an auction with your millions and just say yes ????????????
 
As an answer: about respect, in the order of appearance:

Chris : I know very few about 908, I have only rear lights and mounts for the « K ».
Re-created firstly for myself but finally sold to famous Porsche Workshops, collectors, and respectful users from their asking. About value: I will not argue: money is not my dream, I have some, that’s all.

Graham : So kind of you to be interested about my brain. Hopefully, perhaps, you will soon accept that my common sense is not so « absurd ». You are perfectly in your right to doubt about my ability to drive or to create. The facts, my dear, are against you:
13 799 miles today on racing (FIA historic competition) with it from Daytona to Malta, from Le Mans to Corsica, from Tunis to Baleares…About « work » : some thousand hours of search about race results, bibliography, original parts and about the ability to create, bad luck: I am a well none professional artist since 1980.

Terry :I really appreciate your comment and agree totally. Surely, if I had begun with this preamble, the reactions would have been, say, more peaceful. This is my error.

Michel: “Sans liberté de blâmer, il n’est pas d’éloge flatteur”. Beaumarchais had the talent to resume the critical sense. It’s not always destructive and that was not my intention. But I have the ability to say if the parts and design in your car are ok or not as I know all that quite accurately. Magnesium upright casting and titanium ball joint housing are perfectly made today by a self made freelance in his garage with titanium when needed, respecting the Porsche/Lotus specifications. So it could be done. What I reject is the subliminal “I don’t care” or “Nobody will see it” or the worst: “I have to finish it quickly”. That is the spiritual “fake” I do not accept. Make your own car really from the drawings to the frame design, from suspension to windshield and you’ll have my definitive admiration but please if you copy, do it respectfully. You say it’s an evocation. That is a nice euphemism but it will not protect you from Porsche lawyers and I know them very well as I am surely the only guy in the world who had made Porsche sentenced for forgery.

Jimmy: “tout ce qui est excessif est insignificant”. As an American, try to have some sense of shades, that could help for a good understanding of surroundings…It is always very easy to make an intention trial but when you do it, in fact you judge only yourself by projection…Speaking about “art”…Please could you definite the word before employing it ?

Fred and Marcus: I forgive you and more I present you my other cheek. In fact: I love you. Provenance, Porsche museum: Hans Herrmann, Rolf Stommelen, Jochen Neerpasch, Udo Schütz…Is that sounding to you ?

Re-Michel: My former post was too short to be understood without the idea to be outrageous: I am sorry for that.
For the moment I saw that car on a website before buying it, and for ten years, it as not been a day without working on it: new race result, old new original part, bibliography, original invoices, ads of sale, vintage photos. I race it very hardly but respecting its integrity (always Post Historic diagonal mounted tyres to preserve the frame) . I am not a collector or an investor, only a user but a respectful one. To do with cars is my goal and as you I love sharing passion with others. Sorry but your work doesn’t respect 907 and sorry Walter, cars do not need love but they sure need great respect.
The biggest problem with clones is 1/ time: I sold to a gentleman some years ago a pair of rear lights for his 906 and he told me he was doing a GTO for…30 years: pity he couldn’t finish it because of his search of perfection..2/ is the budget: 200 000 to 300 000 € minimum for an “as real” 907 with original parts… The original revs for instance cost 20 000 € and good luck to find one…Same difficulty for injection pump or 8 cylinder engine.
So my question is: why do you absolutely want to recreate, for the best an “evocation” and for the worst a fake and not to create your own car ? For the myth ? But the myth, If exist, is only in the real one...But don’t tell me: because it’s easy.

Anyway and to finish constructive: pay attention for this advice: take off the Porsche emblem and name on your car. Showing the car with those expose you to have it destructed by Porsche as they did it several time in the past. I have some friends artist who have been sued for the inclusion in their drawings of this kind of trademarks.
 
AsSo my question is: why do you absolutely want to recreate, for the best an “evocation” and for the worst a fake and not to create your own car ? For the myth ? But the myth, If exist, is only in the real one...

Sorry Michel to add to this thread drift, that deserves your fantastic work, but I have to say to Jacques I disagree with him on that point...

Jacques, I fully respect who owns, carefully and jealously keeps and use respectfully any testimony of the past human engineering hability (I do myself on some other matter than classic cars).

But, remember than 90% of this forum's members are owner of a replica of something (or wanted to become, eventually). Why owning a replica, such as my beloved GTD : an "horrible fake"/hardly a look-alike ? For many reasons, and maybe the main (but not the only one) is the myth itself... Believe me, when I was flooring the gas pedal of my Gulf colored look-alike last month, on the straight line of Le Castellet track, I was Jacky Ickx !
The myth is definitively not only in real one, it's also in my dream and in people's eyes when they look at my car, and talk with me about the original one they have seen here or there back in the days.
If I had the money, I would have bought on original one. But I don't, so I'm grabbing my little part of the myth, for pleasure of it, to stick a huge smile on my face...

Sorry to talk about me, but I'm sure some others feel the same.
 
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Hello to all mates there ;
please do not reply more to those posts for 2 reasons ;
1/ we are there on post started by Chris and all previous post are only "hacking the original subject
So please come back to original thread spirit Chris have started !
2/ we are there in a replica 's homebuilders forum and specially A GT 40 forum
with Ron as a boss ; I don't think he will appreciate we follow on such useless
discussion od "worlds war"

So please let us come back to interesting disussions about tecnical solutions or issues and stay away to unnecessary demonstrations

Thanks
 

Randy V

Moderator-Admin
Staff member
Admin
Lifetime Supporter
Jacques / others who may take such offense of replicas...
As others have pointed out, the work of most people on this forum is to "replicate" original works for their own personal enjoyment. Many choose to share their work here.. If you don't enjoy that sharing of work, please feel free to click over to another thread or click your happy ass right off this forum.

In other words - don't let the door hit you on the ass on your way out....

Any more negative remarks such as this will be met with a suspension. Any after that suspension will be met with banning.
 
So please let us come back to interesting disussions about tecnical solutions or issues and stay away to unnecessary demonstrations


I wholeheartedly agree...and would everybody please stop explaining yourself to this Jacques...no need to :thumbsdown:
 

Keith

Moderator
Michel, such works are an inspiration to others to create their dream car, and as I will never ever get a chance to do it, I take great pleasure in your efforts and to see and hear it after all that work is amazing.

Thanks to you, Chris and everyone else in the project.. :)

This other fake Frenchman hasn't inspired me at all! :laugh:
 
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