Show me your fuel pumps please! - Carb fed engines

Gentlemen,

I'm finding my Facet/Malpassi fuel system is struggling to keep up after many years of reliable use. I've searched many fuel pump threads & am looking for the best option to upgrade my current system, hopefully without too much modification. Are the Gerotor type pumps the best option? (they look the most expensive!!)

I'm looking to keep the pumps in the original location with the inlet around 10 inches higher than the tank outlet.

Any advice or opinions gratefully received.

Kind regards,
Julian
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Brian Stewart
Supporter
I'm using a pair of SW 240A. Not many road miles yet, but seem to keep up with a few spirited track laps. A bit hard to find, but crop on eBay now and then. Most will need refurbishing.
 

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Neil

Supporter
Those Facet pumps were originally sold by Bendix. Ferrari used an Italian-built pump that was similar in their '60s V12 street cars. Now and then I had to whack that pump to get it to start clicking away so that I could start the engine.

Carter makes a good rotary vane fuel pump for carb systems. I found a brand new Mallory 140 fuel pump and regulator, still in their original box, at a swap meet and bought them for $50. If you can find them, Mallory pumps are nice. Weldon makes a line of fine fuel pumps but they are expensive.
 

Mike Pass

Supporter
A friend had the same setup as yours on a strong 347 on a 650 double pumper Holley. With prolonged high speed running on track the pumps couln’t keep up and it ran lean and melted the top of a piston. Engine builder said the setup was not up to feeding the 347 and he recommended Holley 125 or 150 pumps and a larger fuel filter with better flow capability. Problem solved. The Holleys are also fuel pressure internally regulated regulated for a Holley carb.
Cheers
Mike
 

Pat

Supporter
If the system has been working reliably unil now, check your fuel pump switch. On one side of the tertiary switch mine passed enough amperage to get the pump clacking away but not enough to get the 6PSI the carb needed. The other side was fine. Finally tracked it down to a spring in the Lucas switch toggle coming off it's teeny little mounting post.
 
A friend had the same setup as yours on a strong 347 on a 650 double pumper Holley. With prolonged high speed running on track the pumps couln’t keep up and it ran lean and melted the top of a piston. Engine builder said the setup was not up to feeding the 347 and he recommended Holley 125 or 150 pumps and a larger fuel filter with better flow capability. Problem solved. The Holleys are also fuel pressure internally regulated regulated for a Holley carb.
Cheers
Mike

Thank you all for your replies,

Mike, do you know if your friend installed the Holley pumps level with the tank outlet or higher up in the engine bay? Holley state the 12-125 "Should be mounted below the fuel level of the tank for a good gravity feed on the inlet side". However reading through the various forum threads on this subject some have been fitted above the fuel outlet...?
 

Ed McClements

Supporter
Gentlemen,

I'm finding my Facet/Malpassi fuel system is struggling to keep up after many years of reliable use. I've searched many fuel pump threads & am looking for the best option to upgrade my current system, hopefully without too much modification. Are the Gerotor type pumps the best option? (they look the most expensive!!)

I'm looking to keep the pumps in the original location with the inlet around 10 inches higher than the tank outlet.

Any advice or opinions gratefully received.

Kind regards,
JulianView attachment 98548

Hi Julian
img_4801-jpg.98548


I think I spot the problem with fuel flow...either your pumps & filters have been mounted inverted, or your car has flipped and is currently on its roof!

Hope this helps,

Eddy
 

Mike Pass

Supporter
Hi Julian,
If I remember correctly mounted in the same location as Facets. From what I recall the main issue with the poor flow was the Filter Kings but all was replaced anyway to make sure there was no chance of a repeat. It was a mess - the small half moon on the piston crown had come off and was stuck in the head! Try replacing with a bigger better flowing filter (and regulator) such as the Moroso one that Martin fitted.

Cheers
Mike
 
Had the best luck with a Carter 4600HP pump. A single one provides enough fuel for my 427 Windsor on track days. DO NOT get the Holley HP150 gerotor pump. Went thru 2 of those in short order because the shaft seal fails and leaks fuel.
 
Thank you all for your replies,

Mike, do you know if your friend installed the Holley pumps level with the tank outlet or higher up in the engine bay? Holley state the 12-125 "Should be mounted below the fuel level of the tank for a good gravity feed on the inlet side". However reading through the various forum threads on this subject some have been fitted above the fuel outlet...?
the holley pumps have to be leve l with the tank outlet .........they are pushers not pullers .... i have a brand new one in my garage ... now .. went for 2 facets ..... work fine ....
 
If the system has been working reliably unil now, check your fuel pump switch. On one side of the tertiary switch mine passed enough amperage to get the pump clacking away but not enough to get the 6PSI the carb needed. The other side was fine. Finally tracked it down to a spring in the Lucas switch toggle coming off it's teeny little mounting post.

Good point, I'll look into that. Thanks for the tip.
 
A couple of Mitsuba pumps here, standard fit to SGT cars, to be honest my car has only done 2 miles so I’m in no position comment on reliability but I know SGT aware by them...

5587E87B-4FEC-4D68-A1C0-CA43FC2751F6.png
 
Facet pumps only flow 20gph @ 7psi while the Holley Red does tripple that.
Facets flow even worse when they get warm.
In my experiance they are not up to the job, not even on a 3.0 V6 with thripple 40s.
I have replaced so many Genuine Facet Blue tops by failure I lost count. Never again. On the Holley Red now on several of my cars and never had an issue anymore.
My GT40 will get the Carter pumps.
 

Pat

Supporter
The Facet Red Tops have worked fine for me. The 480532E Gold-Flo is factory rated at 8.0 - 6.5 PSI and 45GPH. The Holley Double Pumper (650, 700, 750, and 800 CFM) are designed to work best at fuel pressures between 5 and 7 psi. Holley recommends 7 psi at idle, and a minimum 4 psi at engine redline.
 
Thank you all for your replies so far. I'll summarise what I've learned so far & hopefully this will be of use to others.

Due to the location of my pumps 10" above the fuel tank outlet, I require pumps with a 'LIFT' capability. My engine requires around 35 GPH flow & the Holley 670 carb requires 7 psi fuel pressure at tickover.

FWIW I have cleaned & inspected all fuel lines & filters, drained & cleaned the tanks, checked the tank vents and roll-over valves, re set the float heights and set the fuel pressure to 7 psi at tickover. Fuel delivery is fine 95% of the time but marginal during long periods of high demand, ie sustained WOT in 5th gear or long periods of hard acceleration.

According to my research, an increased fuel pressure will reduce the fuel flow. The problem might be that my current FACET 408532E Gold-Flo pumps will not provide 45GPH at 7psi & to increase the flow I would have to decrease the fuel pressure.

Thanks you for all the recommendations on the various pumps available, I have researched the spec on all those listed. At present, the most suitable pump looks to be a FACET 40290 dura-lift pump (Thanks Chuck).

Alternatively a quick cheap solution may be to modify the switching & run the two pumps simultaneously as required ?

FWIW I have spoken with the Holley technical helpline (1-866-464-6553). They confirmed to me that none of their pumps will 'LIFT' fuel & must be installed lower than the fuel tank outlet. Holley stated that pumps used in a LIFT situation will fail prematurely. As such Holley pumps are not suitable for my installation (unless I relocate the fuel pumps).
 

Pat

Supporter
Julian are you using an air/fuel-ratio meter? If it's stumbling at WOT, assuming the fuel filters (there are also some on the pumps) are clean and it may be that you could adjust the fuel pressure via the Malpassi/Filter King unit.
 

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Julian are you using an air/fuel-ratio meter? If it's stumbling at WOT, assuming the fuel filters (there are also some on the pumps) are clean and it may be that you could adjust the fuel pressure via the Malpassi/Filter King unit.

Hi Veek,

Thanks for your post & the Malpassi instructions, I appreciate your suggestion. The stumbling only happens intermittently and occasionally at WOT & I have set the fuel pressure to 7psi at tickover as per the Carb's requirements.

I'm beginning to think the problem may be that the Facet Gold-flo pumps are marginal for my engines requirements.

kind regards
Julian
 

Ed McClements

Supporter
Hi Julian

Did you solve your pump / flow / fuelling issue?

Some people recommended the Carter pumps; the P4070 is specified at 50gph, which sounds enough for your engine - if not, there's a 72gph version

180-p4070.jpg


The Facet Dura Lift series sounds promising, being able to be mounted up to 60in above tank height and still prime, but only appear rated up to 33gph which might be marginal WOT.

 
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