Pete McCluskey.
Lifetime Supporter
Well Keith, let's assume that you have control of F1, what would you change?
F1 in 2012
- Thread starter Pete
- Start date
Damned tyres and even more damned Auto Manufacturers.
Since they "bought into" Formula 1 the costs have escalated exponentially, which is no problem as their world wide marketing budgets are huge and F1 makes a lot of commercial sense for less money.
But they can come or go as they please, and manipulate the series to their own advantage using money + global power. But it's the smaller teams that provide most of the excitement and to a degree, always have.
McLaren, Sauber, Red Bull, Force India, Williams, Torro Rosso, Benetton, Jordan and against that we had (have) the under performing "Factory Teams; Mercedes, Ferrari (although going better this year) BMW who royally screwed Williams and buggered off, Toyota, a billion pounds and won nothing, Honda who made the worst decision in history pulling out on the brink, Jaguar, Renault (never won anything either) etc etc.
All that cash driving up costs and virtually nothing to show for it. OK chaps, we've had enough of this F1 bollox, let's sponsor a synchronised swim team instead.
Tyres
Keep a consistent 4 tyres throughout the season i.e. hard, medium/soft, inter and full wet. Develop these four tyres throughout the season but NOT for a specific track. Remove the randomness.
Team owners can then consistently develop their chassis/tech. Driver and Team Cream will rise to the top.
Right now, quite often, the slower car/driver combo can crack it open. You might say that's a good thing but I say it does not any longer represent the pinnacle of auto racing. I saw a Top Gear repeat tonight where Richard Hammond got involved with Nascar via Kyle Petty. It was quite interesting technically but pretty dumb if you know what I mean (Hammond's presenting skills).
He topped it off by asking "Why Isn't Formula 1 like this?"
Well Hammond, it is, it already is and it cannot return because the market now is so huge.
As F1 became dumber and infested with Big Business, their knowledgeable and enthusiastic fan base has been completely eroded by hate screaming Bieber style fan boys that infest F1 forums ad infinitum ad nausem. Football style support has come to F1.
Actually Pete, I wouldn't bother to change it. It's got legs now and is what it is, and I'm a grumpy old fart wistfully looking over my shoulder - pay no heed.
That's it.
Since they "bought into" Formula 1 the costs have escalated exponentially, which is no problem as their world wide marketing budgets are huge and F1 makes a lot of commercial sense for less money.
But they can come or go as they please, and manipulate the series to their own advantage using money + global power. But it's the smaller teams that provide most of the excitement and to a degree, always have.
McLaren, Sauber, Red Bull, Force India, Williams, Torro Rosso, Benetton, Jordan and against that we had (have) the under performing "Factory Teams; Mercedes, Ferrari (although going better this year) BMW who royally screwed Williams and buggered off, Toyota, a billion pounds and won nothing, Honda who made the worst decision in history pulling out on the brink, Jaguar, Renault (never won anything either) etc etc.
All that cash driving up costs and virtually nothing to show for it. OK chaps, we've had enough of this F1 bollox, let's sponsor a synchronised swim team instead.
Tyres
Keep a consistent 4 tyres throughout the season i.e. hard, medium/soft, inter and full wet. Develop these four tyres throughout the season but NOT for a specific track. Remove the randomness.
Team owners can then consistently develop their chassis/tech. Driver and Team Cream will rise to the top.
Right now, quite often, the slower car/driver combo can crack it open. You might say that's a good thing but I say it does not any longer represent the pinnacle of auto racing. I saw a Top Gear repeat tonight where Richard Hammond got involved with Nascar via Kyle Petty. It was quite interesting technically but pretty dumb if you know what I mean (Hammond's presenting skills).
He topped it off by asking "Why Isn't Formula 1 like this?"
Well Hammond, it is, it already is and it cannot return because the market now is so huge.
As F1 became dumber and infested with Big Business, their knowledgeable and enthusiastic fan base has been completely eroded by hate screaming Bieber style fan boys that infest F1 forums ad infinitum ad nausem. Football style support has come to F1.
Actually Pete, I wouldn't bother to change it. It's got legs now and is what it is, and I'm a grumpy old fart wistfully looking over my shoulder - pay no heed.
That's it.
Jim Craik
Lifetime Supporter
Posted by Keith
Keith, you may want to check your statistics. You say Renault "never won anything either".
The Renault Factory team won 35 races, 51 poles, two Constructors Chamionships and two Drivers Championships.
Additionally, their engines have powered 8 Constructors and 7 drivers Championships, including the last two.
That is a fairly impressive record.
*********************
Additionally, you call Ferrari "under performing",
Not only are they currently leading the Drivers Championship by a good margin, they have won 219 races, 207 poles, 16 Constructors and 15 drivers Championships.
Additionally Ferrari has won 6 of the last 11 drivers championships.
If thats underperforming then......................
One more thing, although Factory Team Honda has only won three GPs, their engines have won 72 along with numerous Drivers and Constructiors Championships. Senna, Prost, Piquet......
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Yes I missed those two, 2 WDC? not much to show for 32 years though is it - really?
No argument on the tech, turbo, desmodromic valves, V10, respect.
1977 - 2009 when Renault entered and Renault left
Williams (private team) same period with 4 different engine makes: 16 World Championships combined, 113 wins.
McLaren (Private Team) same period with 4 different engine makes. 7 CC and 12 WDC
Ferrari (Factory Team) underperforming and have done for some years. Yes, good job Fernando isn't.
i.e.
Ferrari 9 WDC and 6 CC same period (5 WDC from one driver)
Renault (Factory Team) same period 2 WDC and 2 CC.
The point about engine manufacturer change is that it impacts heavily on chassis design and can compromise overall performance. Ferrari on the other hand have always made their own and only got better when they stole the Honda Engine Designer. Before that they were entrenched in V12's and "Ferrari Tradition" Spectacular but not very successful. They can't even find a talented enough Italian to drive the damn things!
Having said all that, I do have a soft spot for Ferrari as I relate to their passion .
Get my drift?
The list is pretty much there but might have missed one or two, so don't bother checking - I think the point is proved, at least to my satisfaction.
If you want to continue arguing perhaps your election needs you.
No argument on the tech, turbo, desmodromic valves, V10, respect.
1977 - 2009 when Renault entered and Renault left
Williams (private team) same period with 4 different engine makes: 16 World Championships combined, 113 wins.
McLaren (Private Team) same period with 4 different engine makes. 7 CC and 12 WDC
Ferrari (Factory Team) underperforming and have done for some years. Yes, good job Fernando isn't.
i.e.
Ferrari 9 WDC and 6 CC same period (5 WDC from one driver)
Renault (Factory Team) same period 2 WDC and 2 CC.
The point about engine manufacturer change is that it impacts heavily on chassis design and can compromise overall performance. Ferrari on the other hand have always made their own and only got better when they stole the Honda Engine Designer. Before that they were entrenched in V12's and "Ferrari Tradition" Spectacular but not very successful. They can't even find a talented enough Italian to drive the damn things!
Having said all that, I do have a soft spot for Ferrari as I relate to their passion .
Get my drift?
The list is pretty much there but might have missed one or two, so don't bother checking - I think the point is proved, at least to my satisfaction.
If you want to continue arguing perhaps your election needs you.
This year?
Hatched your Egg Chickens count don't your. Re-arrange.
Massa did what? That's hysterical. He didn't win is what.
Sigh..
Underperforming considering their resources, personnel and 62 years in the 'sport.' They have also consistently bullied the governing bodies in the past to get an advantage.
The comparison is with Renault from the period 2007 - 2009.
Ferrari won 6 WDC's in that time, 5 of them from MSC. Raikkonen won 1. No MSC? probably no silverware.
For any sane person, the comparison between private vs factory teams in that period shows that the factory teams have underperformed whilst hoisting budgets into the stratosphere.
Ferrari paid MSC $30 million per year when many others were getting 5 figures.
I think he did his bit, but seemingly overall, they (Ferrari) didn't do theirs.
I was asked to state an opinion by Pete and I have. I am not going to sit here getting involved with your time wasting obsessive compulsive nit picking, so troll away someplace else.
Hatched your Egg Chickens count don't your. Re-arrange.
Massa did what? That's hysterical. He didn't win is what.
Sigh..
Underperforming considering their resources, personnel and 62 years in the 'sport.' They have also consistently bullied the governing bodies in the past to get an advantage.
The comparison is with Renault from the period 2007 - 2009.
Ferrari won 6 WDC's in that time, 5 of them from MSC. Raikkonen won 1. No MSC? probably no silverware.
For any sane person, the comparison between private vs factory teams in that period shows that the factory teams have underperformed whilst hoisting budgets into the stratosphere.
Ferrari paid MSC $30 million per year when many others were getting 5 figures.
I think he did his bit, but seemingly overall, they (Ferrari) didn't do theirs.
I was asked to state an opinion by Pete and I have. I am not going to sit here getting involved with your time wasting obsessive compulsive nit picking, so troll away someplace else.
And have about the same level of comprehension.
Pete McCluskey.
Lifetime Supporter
OOOPPPPss sorry I asked.:lipsrsealed:
I think and have expressed before that Formula one should become Formula Libre,
I.E. no rules other than those that apply to safety.
Other than that free engines, free aero, free chassis. Costs of course would be prohibitive so it wont happen.
I agree Keith that today's version is a circus and is designed to sell television rights and is no longer the pinnacle of design. I think the Le Mans prototypes have taken on that role.
I still enjoy F1 though, maybe the hooligan in me is coming out?
I think and have expressed before that Formula one should become Formula Libre,
I.E. no rules other than those that apply to safety.
Other than that free engines, free aero, free chassis. Costs of course would be prohibitive so it wont happen.
I agree Keith that today's version is a circus and is designed to sell television rights and is no longer the pinnacle of design. I think the Le Mans prototypes have taken on that role.
I still enjoy F1 though, maybe the hooligan in me is coming out?
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Jim Craik
Lifetime Supporter
Thank you!
Well you are a digger mate!
Another game changing moment was the rule change about customer cars. No longer could you race a Lola, Dallara, March etc, yet most teams (apart from the 'F' word) started out with one, and it is from that moment that the Constructors Championship became more important (for the 'business') whilst the general public only cared about the WDC, a clear split in focus and politically divisive introducing 'team orders' and tensions between driver and team.
I have no idea why a team couldn't race a customer chassis and only enter the WDC with their own choice of tyre and they've taken it to such a height now that they couldn't do it if they tried.
It's changed beyond all comprehension and now got a life of it's own. What WILL change F1 is likely to be through budgetary necessity, and I'll bet it will mean more racing gimmicks will be introduced to keep the fanbase growing. Then it truly WILL be a circus.
Also, like you mate, I do enjoy some of it but nowhere near the degree I used to, and I feel the same about V8 Supercars too...:stunned:
Don't ever ask me a bloody question ever again! :evil:
It wasn't a compliment but you're welcome anyway.
Pete McCluskey.
Lifetime Supporter
V8 Supercars have lost all appeal for me.Basically the same chassis with either a Ford or Chebbie engine. Did someone say NASCAR? The only difference is the V8's go around corners in different directions. The old adage win on Sunday sell on Monday has long gone. And the V8 crowd is now full of red neck Wal Mart type people. Did someone say NASCAR?
Well, that makes at least 3 of us....
Don't hold back on my account, or, or, are (were you) you going to say that Flavio Briatore has a new thong?
Pete McCluskey.
Lifetime Supporter
Jim Craik
Lifetime Supporter
I just heard the Professor Sid Watkins has passed away.
Dr Watkins was the long time F1 trama Doc who helped develop a lot of the current Medical processes used at Grand Prix races. He was the one who first developed and rode in the Medical Saftey car that followed behind the racers on the first lap.
His skills were resposable for saving the lives of several very badly injured racers.
Back in 1995 Frances and I attended the Canadian GP, on the night before the race, we had attended the Jackie Stewart charity auction and afterwards went for a late dinner at the hotel.
The restaurant was almost empty, as we entered, an older gentleman asked if we were there for the race. He interduced himself as Sid, that's when I recognized him. After shaking hands he invited us to share a table.
He was a charming, unassuming gentleman. We talked about the race, all the traveling he did and how much he enjoyed his part in the events.
It was a wonderful dinner, he seemed just as interested in our story as we were in his.
RIP Dr Sid.
Dr Watkins was the long time F1 trama Doc who helped develop a lot of the current Medical processes used at Grand Prix races. He was the one who first developed and rode in the Medical Saftey car that followed behind the racers on the first lap.
His skills were resposable for saving the lives of several very badly injured racers.
Back in 1995 Frances and I attended the Canadian GP, on the night before the race, we had attended the Jackie Stewart charity auction and afterwards went for a late dinner at the hotel.
The restaurant was almost empty, as we entered, an older gentleman asked if we were there for the race. He interduced himself as Sid, that's when I recognized him. After shaking hands he invited us to share a table.
He was a charming, unassuming gentleman. We talked about the race, all the traveling he did and how much he enjoyed his part in the events.
It was a wonderful dinner, he seemed just as interested in our story as we were in his.
RIP Dr Sid.
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Sad news indeed. His book was one of the best reads about formula 1 I have ever read. I'm sure that he will be sadly missed by everyone involved in the sport.
Pete McCluskey.
Lifetime Supporter
I was not aware of that. So sad, a great man R.I.P.
