Guns, pros and cons!

[Doug S.]

I can tell you that if/when the attack upon the Second Amendment is undertaken in such a way that it may just be feasible that it will be changed so that individuals in the U.S. no longer have the right to posses firearms legally, this country will be torn apart. When and how this happens, I do not know.....

Mike, I can't address when, but I can tell you how it will happen....it will happen by way of the process whereby constitutional ammendments are enacted or repealed. This has happened in the past with prohibition of alcohol.....the ammendment was approved by the required majorities in either the two houses of congress or by the state legislatures, as was the repeal of the 18th ammendment. That IS the process devised by our founding fathers, whom you so vociferously defend.

In everything we have a choice. What I am telling you is that if many Americans are given the choice of giving up their weapons, going to jail, fighting to the death to keep them, or moving to another territory/state/country that agrees with them and their right to possess arms, many will choose each of those paths, and it will be a sad day in the history of this country.

Personally, I'm the love it or leave it type, and I believe in the democratic process. I would either give up my arms peacefully, or leave to go to another location that respects my rights as a firearm owner. What I will do if/when the actual situation presents itself....I have no idea. Probably go somewhere else.

'

Your statements here are a bit contradictory, Mike.....in one sentence you say you believe in the democratic process, yet in the end you say you would probably go somewhere else. So, which is it.....DO you believe in the democratic process, whereby the MAJORITY of the voting citizens of our country determine the path our country travels, or not? It seems to me that IF you do believe in the democratic process, you would adhere to the decisions made in accordance with our democratic process and stay should the right to bear arms be repealed.

So, which is it, you really can't have it both ways :stunned: ?

Cheers from Doug!

 

[tom pritchett]

Well, when seconds count, the police are just minutes away.

One question raised is what kind of weapon should we have? I think that we should have the same access to all of the weapons that the military has.

 

[Doug S.]

Why not....the Mexican Drug Cartel gangs do, and they are spreading across the border!

Cheers from Doug

 

[Cliff Beer]

My wife is a great shot (she was a Captain in the US Army and a regular at the range) - she can nail a crow with the old pellet gun at an amazing distance. She can blast skeet with her eyes closed. It's really quite impressive. I have a healthy respect for guns, am a fair shot, and we're very careful with what we have (we have kids).

I have a gun not for sport or show, but simply to put one between the eyes of anyone who ever breaks into my house while my family is there. If we're not there then I don't care, but if we're there, and that burglar puts my family in harms way then it's simply a matter of getting the jump and having better aim.

 

[John Milmont]

I have to dispute that, John.....while I do seem to have attitudes that vary from conservative to liberal, for the most part I believe in my heart that the liberal agenda is better for the majority of the people in America, while the conservative agenda is better for the minority who are in the upper income levels.

To characterize those who subscribe to the liberal philosophy in a global manner as you did is ludicrous.....especially when you base that belief on the statement of ONE. I, for one, have great respect and admiration for the founding fathers of our nation, believe in my heart that they set a great foundation on which to build a great nation, based on the circumstances at the time.

However, I do ask you.....do you really believe that those who drafted the Declaration of Independence and our Constitution could possibly have predicted the manner in which our society has progressed in the couple of hundred years since they wrote those documents? Keep in mind that they were still using horses and buggies for transportation in those days, as had mankind for thousands of years before that, so technical "progress", so to speak, was not so great. Then came the "discovery" of electricity (we all know the story of Ben Franklin, the key and the kite), perhaps IMHO the greatest development in mankind's history....and technology began to advance in an exponential manner.

Do you really believe the founding fathers were expecting us to be communicating with computers? Surely not!

There are challenges today that the constitutional fathers could never have conceptualized.....so how could they have "planned" for them in our founding documents?

Yet, plan they did, in a manner....they established the process for Constitutional ammendments. At first the topics related to issues suffered in the past at the hands of the Brits....freedom of speech, freedom to bear arms, etc....but I'd bet a paycheck they would be surprised at the manner in which our political system has been twisted to become what it is today.

So, no, I do not hate our founding fathers, and certanly do not believe they were idiots, but I do recognize that there are challenges in this advanced sociological system we call "Democracy" that were incomprehensible to them.....and therefore do not necessarily believe that the only way to approach those issues is with the same logic that would have been applied by the founding fathers.

Cheers from Doug!!

I must say, that the person who told me this was quite a radical idealist.
But I agree with you about how our forefathers could never have guessed that we would be driving cars and using computers, and they would also be shameful of what our political system has become. I don't agree with how you say that the liberal agenda is better for the majority and the conservative only for the upper tiers.

I would agree, that on paper, the liberal agenda does look more attractive and I know they want to better this world. But like many things on paper, they just don't work out in practice. Whats that old saying? The road to hell is paved with good intentions? No truer words have ever been said.

I could even make a case that the opposite happens. That is that liberalism actually leads to a small but overwhelmingly rich and powerful ruling class, and a very large poor class with pretty much nothing in between.

I do believe though, that in the end, your going to get your way. I don't think that any society can truly overcome the swing to the left that accompanies great success. But, i don't think guns will ever be banned. Instead, legal ownership will be made so expensive that only the very wealthy will be able to afford them. Would that be good enough for you?

 

[Pat]

Nick,

... I cant tell you the number of times on this site that people who disagree with me tell me to "shut the f*** up" or block my posts. People who clame to have such a great understanding of the 2nd Amendment have little understanding of the 1st.

Jim, let me help you here. The first amendment says:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Unless the government does it, forum members blocking your posts doesn't limit your first amendment rights. You can say what you want, nobody is required to listen.

 

[domtoni]

Comments from General Boykin re the liberal agenda, the US' move towards Marxism and Hillary Clinton's desire (with BHO's signature) of the UN's ban on small arms:

"Marxism in America" Lt. Gen. (Ret.) W.G. Boykin Video |

Sounds to me like we have the makings of revolutionary times.

 

[Jim Craik]

Veek,

Everyone is intitled to my opinion.

 

[Doc Kaler]

My personal beliefs are "pro" guns. I grew up with hunting and sporting clays, learning firearms safety and hunting safety as a youth as did my brothers. My youngest brother has been on a SWAT team, been a marksman and a former police chief. He is pro firearm self defense and right to carry. We all have CHL's. My wife had to use deadly force when home alone with our son on a home invader several years ago. The investigator's suggested "Next time, use a larger caliber!". This didn't occur in the bowels of the big city, but out in the country.

I collect firearms, mostly pre-1900 Colts. Most of my early Colt military collection can be seen at the Audie Murphey Museum in Greenville Texas. But I do collect post-1900 firearms, some to augment my military collection but some hunting firearms. So, from many perspectives and political and social rangling aside, I'm "Pro" guns.

 

[Roark_John]

The problem with "democracy" in action is often that those without the ability or werewithal to benefit their neighbors are the ones trying to force policy that benefits "them". I call this the Free Lunch Syndrome. It's bad enough that Congress vote themselves a pay-raise, I do not want the unwashed masses doing so as well.

The Freedom of Speech is a wonderful thing...so long as those speaking, are ones with enough sense in their head, and equipped with a vocabulary capable of elucidating a VALID point. To simply say Freedom of Speech means EVERYONE can speak freely, introduces a Tower of Babel from which none may escape once the volume is cranked to 10.

What happens once the insane run the asylum? Should WE, the reasonable and sane, the producers and enforcers, be forced to swap the reins whenever someone hollers that they want a turn? That is what "democracy" will get you. Not a hay-ride I care to be on, or be forced to pay for!

For every bad example (or potentially bad example) I hear about why guns should be regulated even tighter, I don't hear ANYONE clamboring to their elected officials about tightening the regs on driving PRIVILEGES. Gun rights are just that...RIGHTS. But any fucking idiot who can fog a mirror and pass the vision test can get a license. An SUV travelling at 65 mph has as much stored energy as a stick of dynamite. Yet everyday there are 100's times more vehicle "accidents" than shootings.

The simple fact is that regulation, registration, and regimentation do little to nothing to stem crime. Laws only affect those that bother to obey them. Name ONE law that has ever been passed that actually CURBED crime. Just ONE. All laws do is put handcuffs on those who abide by them. They do jack-squat to prevent crime or stop criminals from committing them. Sure, they provide penalties...after the fact.

Why are all the libs so MILITANT in THEIR views on how life should be lived by others? If a man raises his voice in objection to a noose slowly being tightened on another of his rights slow strangulation, he is mocked and shouted down as a "gun-crazy"...but if another man suggests that what's best for all is to remove some rights from everybody, that man is applauded. Sickening.

Just remember...without the rights of the INDIVIDUAL, the GROUP can have no rights. The group is meaningless without the individual. NONE of YOUR feelings, thoughts or beliefs will matter when the individual ceases to be cherished. A group that consists of anonymous, faceless members is nothing more than a mob. I refuse to live by the whims and caprices of an un-identifiable mob. And I sure as hell will not protect them. At the point when I stop mattering, nobody else matters either. That is a TRULY sobering thought to digest.

It's hard to fathom how people have become so removed from the reality of their fragile and tenuous existence, that they consider rights that have been protected and fought to the death for over centuries, to be nothing more than an IDEA with which to bandy about like some unimportant thing, like chores or errands.

You don't have to cherish your rights or protect them. But you will never encroach mine without feeling the sharp pang of reality...that men like myself know violence intimately so that they do not have to. And that when push comes to shove, we are prepared when they are not. We should never have to fight our own countrymen for one of our own rights, just as we should never be deprived of those rights simply because they allow their own fears to paralyze their critical thought and rationality.

 

[Jeff Young]

You are kidding me right?

Uh, it ain't circa 1873 in Deadwood any more there pardner.

If ANYONE thinks the individual right to own guns (which I support by the way) by "men who know violence intimately" (that's a hoot) protects us from ANYTHING these days, they are just looney.

No, the shotgun in your closet is not going to stop you from getting robbed.

Nor are you going to use it to rise up and restore the Republic. Not in this day and age.

Again, I support the individual right to own guns. I don't support kooky beliefs glorifying violence or gun ownership as some sort of God given gift that ensures our freedom.

P.S. Those first few paragraphs are some of the most un-American, un-democractic things I've read. So you believe in some sort of idea like the South American "man on horseback" -- democracy be damned, the guys with the guns get the power? Okay.....well then, it's actually guys like you that our Founding Fathers revolted against, and designed the Constitution to protect us against.

Weird.

The problem with "democracy" in action is often that those without the ability or werewithal to benefit their neighbors are the ones trying to force policy that benefits "them". I call this the Free Lunch Syndrome. It's bad enough that Congress vote themselves a pay-raise, I do not want the unwashed masses doing so as well.

The Freedom of Speech is a wonderful thing...so long as those speaking, are ones with enough sense in their head, and equipped with a vocabulary capable of elucidating a VALID point. To simply say Freedom of Speech means EVERYONE can speak freely, introduces a Tower of Babel from which none may escape once the volume is cranked to 10.

What happens once the insane run the asylum? Should WE, the reasonable and sane, the producers and enforcers, be forced to swap the reins whenever someone hollers that they want a turn? That is what "democracy" will get you. Not a hay-ride I care to be on, or be forced to pay for!

For every bad example (or potentially bad example) I hear about why guns should be regulated even tighter, I don't hear ANYONE clamboring to their elected officials about tightening the regs on driving PRIVILEGES. Gun rights are just that...RIGHTS. But any fucking idiot who can fog a mirror and pass the vision test can get a license. An SUV travelling at 65 mph has as much stored energy as a stick of dynamite. Yet everyday there are 100's times more vehicle "accidents" than shootings.

The simple fact is that regulation, registration, and regimentation do little to nothing to stem crime. Laws only affect those that bother to obey them. Name ONE law that has ever been passed that actually CURBED crime. Just ONE. All laws do is put handcuffs on those who abide by them. They do jack-squat to prevent crime or stop criminals from committing them. Sure, they provide penalties...after the fact.

Why are all the libs so MILITANT in THEIR views on how life should be lived by others? If a man raises his voice in objection to a noose slowly being tightened on another of his rights slow strangulation, he is mocked and shouted down as a "gun-crazy"...but if another man suggests that what's best for all is to remove some rights from everybody, that man is applauded. Sickening.

Just remember...without the rights of the INDIVIDUAL, the GROUP can have no rights. The group is meaningless without the individual. NONE of YOUR feelings, thoughts or beliefs will matter when the individual ceases to be cherished. A group that consists of anonymous, faceless members is nothing more than a mob. I refuse to live by the whims and caprices of an un-identifiable mob. And I sure as hell will not protect them. At the point when I stop mattering, nobody else matters either. That is a TRULY sobering thought to digest.

It's hard to fathom how people have become so removed from the reality of their fragile and tenuous existence, that they consider rights that have been protected and fought to the death for over centuries, to be nothing more than an IDEA with which to bandy about like some unimportant thing, like chores or errands.

You don't have to cherish your rights or protect them. But you will never encroach mine without feeling the sharp pang of reality...that men like myself know violence intimately so that they do not have to. And that when push comes to shove, we are prepared when they are not. We should never have to fight our own countrymen for one of our own rights, just as we should never be deprived of those rights simply because they allow their own fears to paralyze their critical thought and rationality.

 

[Roark_John]

Jeff...you are an idiot.

I have served my country as a member of the US Army since 1997. I still do, to this very day.

I have protected YOU...and 330 million other Americans. I know violence intimately. What the fuck do you think we do in COMBAT? We bring death and destruction to the enemy.

I have been in-country in 7 different combat actions. I have killed people. It's not a fun or glorious job, but it is a job that needs done at various times. Don't deride people you do not know, because you only show your own ignorance.

Am I looney, simply because you disagree with me? I have been fully vetted, repeatedly, by mental health care providers prior to returning from, and deploying to, as well as during tours to combat areas. I'm as right in the head as any man killing for his country can be.

You shout alot of elitist snobbery while ignoring the reality of the situation. I don't do this gig to allow filthy degenerates to put their hand in the cookie-jar anytime they feel like it. I do it so that the weak, the innocent and the misabused can live a life free from predation by those filthy degenerates.

Our leaders are supposed to do the BEST job they are able, FOR THE PEOPLE. Both elected officials and appointed officials. We used to put the BEST man for the job in the hot-seat. Now we put the kid who jumps up and down in his desk, begging for a chance to play teacher, with the flashiest ads and deepest pockets in that position. George Washington didn't run for office...we voted him in, and he took the position...not as an honor...but as a DUTY.

Americans no longer understand the concept of Honor, Integrity or Duty.

This doesn't mean because I recognize people are unfit for that role, that they don't deserve to have their rights maintained. It just means that I recognize that serving as an elected or appointed official is not a RIGHT, but a PRIVILEGE.

I will not help bestow privileges upon people who have no concept of the obligations and responsibilities that come with it.

That's not elitist. That's realistic.

I've been sent to hell-holes enough, on the word and whim of our already dim-bulb elected officials. I don't need to go to anymore, anytime, simply because you think EVERY American has a "valid" point-of-view. They don't. If they did, they would have some PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY and not a sense of ENTITLEMENT.

It's the "average American" that put us in the positions we find ourselves today...by not holding sacred their own vote to place in office, as well as remove from office, those officials they helped place there to enact policy that is/was/always will be FOR THE PEOPLE, BY THE PEOPLE, OF THE PEOPLE.

Your "average American" that you are so busy putting on a pedestal has failed his neighbor! The unraveling of this Democratic Republic is happening at a quicker pace, thanks to the actions of your "average American" with their complete irresponsibility in who they place in office and the demands they place on them.

A congressman or Senator is not your personal ATM...but that is how the "average American" has treated them. Demanding pork to benefit their extremely short-term wants.

You have no concept of how being a leader works. You don't do what people WANT, you do what people NEED. It's NOT a popularity contest and was never meant to be. Ever heard of tough love? That's what a good parent AND a good leader does. It makes us ALL better in the long run.

I pity your family and neighbors. You are abdicating your responsiblities as an American to suggest that the lowest among us is equal to the highest among us. No wonder you can't recognize ruin from robust!

Next time you decide to respond to one of my posts, make sure you read EVERYTHING and interpret it AS I SAID IT...not as you choose to digest it. I understand that may be hard for you, what with your NIMBY attitude, but not everyone is as dense or obtuse as you obviously are. Some of us actually try to think laterally as well as literally.

You are kidding me right?

Uh, it ain't circa 1873 in Deadwood any more there pardner.

If ANYONE thinks the individual right to own guns (which I support by the way) by "men who know violence intimately" (that's a hoot) protects us from ANYTHING these days, they are just looney.

No, the shotgun in your closet is not going to stop you from getting robbed.

Nor are you going to use it to rise up and restore the Republic. Not in this day and age.

Again, I support the individual right to own guns. I don't support kooky beliefs glorifying violence or gun ownership as some sort of God given gift that ensures our freedom.

P.S. Those first few paragraphs are some of the most un-American, un-democractic things I've read. So you believe in some sort of idea like the South American "man on horseback" -- democracy be damned, the guys with the guns get the power? Okay.....well then, it's actually guys like you that our Founding Fathers revolted against, and designed the Constitution to protect us against.

Weird.

 

[Brian Hamilton]

Here's my take. And I get hell from my mother EVERY time the gun issue is brought up.

I'm VERY PRO GUN. I'M VERY PRO GUN!! I own 3, my wife owns 3. The usefulness of my H&K G3 .308 assault rifle is always questioned. "Why the hell do you have that?" "Because I can and because it's badass!" is my answer. I don't need a reason to own it, I just wanted it, so I got it.

I have a Remington 870 Tactical 12 gauge. It's got a 7 round mag and an 18.25" barrel. Not a hunting shotgun, but it'll dust some skeet!! I'll hit anything out to about 30-50 yds. After that.... Not so much. It's a home defense/tactical shotgun. Why do I need it? I don't! I friggin wanted it!! Actually... I got that as a Wedding Present. Yes, I sure did from my friend Nick. LOL

My protection weapon is a Desert Eagle Baby Eagle .40 S&W. It sits right next to my seatbelt release so if I do need to get out, I can release and grab at the same time. I drive a friggin' cop car, I doubt I'll ever need to use it. But I'd rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it. I hit a deer years back and wish I would have had something to finish the poor thing off rather than watch it flop around and drag itself off into the woods to die a slow painful death. I really didn't care because it wrecked my fu*#ing car!! LOL Seriously though, it would have been the humane thing to do and it was horrible seeing that poor thing flop around.

In Texas, you do not need a license to carry a loaded pistol in your vehicle. Yes, it's true! I love it. I have yet to acquire my CHL (concealed handgun license), but I will when I have the money. A friend of mine just got finished taking the class and the thing they drill into you is safety, and the fact that if the gun comes out, it goes BANG. You do not pull it if you don't intend to use it.

A friend of mine passed just over a year ago from a gunshot wound to the head. My mom said, "this is why I don't like guns". I said, "you're just scared. It was an accident and it could have just as easily been a car."

The argument of guns is just like religion, politics, abortion, or Ford vs. Chevy. Everyone has their opinions and a book of "facts" that support their stance on the issue.

I proudly support those who use weapons to defend this great country, be they military soldiers or civilian police. I, on the other hand, will do my part to defend my piece of Texas, my family, and property herein. If you choose to lock yourself in a room and wait for the police to arrive, go ahead. Personally, I prefer to lock myself and family in a room and warn the intruders that it would be in their best interest to leave or wait for the police to turn themselves in. Yes I have weapons in the house. Yes they're loaded. Yes they're locked. No, I'm not stupid, I have kids running around!!! My 14 year old knows how to operate every weapon in the house and most of all, knows the safety features of every weapon in the house.

In the end I can't convince someone who is 100% anti-gun to be a gun supporter. But I CAN ask them if they'd like to go shoot some skeet or kill some evil paper targets and hopefully end their fear.

Laters,

Brian

 

[Jeff Young]

Now that is too funny!

First, I thank you for your service. It is appreciated.

Second, I thank you for calling me an idiot. When folks who think like you do call me an idiot, it makes me feel saner than I probably really am.

Have a good one.....

Jeff...you are an idiot.

I have served my country as a member of the US Army since 1997. I still do, to this very day.

I have protected YOU...and 330 million other Americans. I know violence intimately. What the fuck do you think we do in COMBAT? We bring death and destruction to the enemy.

I have been in-country in 7 different combat actions. I have killed people. It's not a fun or glorious job, but it is a job that needs done at various times. Don't deride people you do not know, because you only show your own ignorance.

Am I looney, simply because you disagree with me? I have been fully vetted, repeatedly, by mental health care providers prior to returning from, and deploying to, as well as during tours to combat areas. I'm as right in the head as any man killing for his country can be.

You shout alot of elitist snobbery while ignoring the reality of the situation. I don't do this gig to allow filthy degenerates to put their hand in the cookie-jar anytime they feel like it. I do it so that the weak, the innocent and the misabused can live a life free from predation by those filthy degenerates.

Our leaders are supposed to do the BEST job they are able, FOR THE PEOPLE. Both elected officials and appointed officials. We used to put the BEST man for the job in the hot-seat. Now we put the kid who jumps up and down in his desk, begging for a chance to play teacher, with the flashiest ads and deepest pockets in that position. George Washington didn't run for office...we voted him in, and he took the position...not as an honor...but as a DUTY.

Americans no longer understand the concept of Honor, Integrity or Duty.

This doesn't mean because I recognize people are unfit for that role, that they don't deserve to have their rights maintained. It just means that I recognize that serving as an elected or appointed official is not a RIGHT, but a PRIVILEGE.

I will not help bestow privileges upon people who have no concept of the obligations and responsibilities that come with it.

That's not elitist. That's realistic.

I've been sent to hell-holes enough, on the word and whim of our already dim-bulb elected officials. I don't need to go to anymore, anytime, simply because you think EVERY American has a "valid" point-of-view. They don't. If they did, they would have some PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY and not a sense of ENTITLEMENT.

It's the "average American" that put us in the positions we find ourselves today...by not holding sacred their own vote to place in office, as well as remove from office, those officials they helped place there to enact policy that is/was/always will be FOR THE PEOPLE, BY THE PEOPLE, OF THE PEOPLE.

Your "average American" that you are so busy putting on a pedestal has failed his neighbor! The unraveling of this Democratic Republic is happening at a quicker pace, thanks to the actions of your "average American" with their complete irresponsibility in who they place in office and the demands they place on them.

A congressman or Senator is not your personal ATM...but that is how the "average American" has treated them. Demanding pork to benefit their extremely short-term wants.

You have no concept of how being a leader works. You don't do what people WANT, you do what people NEED. It's NOT a popularity contest and was never meant to be. Ever heard of tough love? That's what a good parent AND a good leader does. It makes us ALL better in the long run.

I pity your family and neighbors. You are abdicating your responsiblities as an American to suggest that the lowest among us is equal to the highest among us. No wonder you can't recognize ruin from robust!

Next time you decide to respond to one of my posts, make sure you read EVERYTHING and interpret it AS I SAID IT...not as you choose to digest it. I understand that may be hard for you, what with your NIMBY attitude, but not everyone is as dense or obtuse as you obviously are. Some of us actually try to think laterally as well as literally.

 

[John Milmont]

Jeff, starting your reply with "your kidding me right?" isn't a whole lot different then calling someone an idiot. I mean, your pretty much laughing at his whole point. I wouldn't be surprised that he would be a little upset after that. But, I'm sure you were aiming to get him upset, which speaks volumes of you.

 

[Graham]

Jeff...you are an idiot.

John,

Just some thoughts:-

I have served my country as a member of the US Army since 1997. I still do, to this very day.
Fair play to you - It is not an easy thing to do at all.

I have protected YOU...and 330 million other Americans. I know violence intimately. What the fuck do you think we do in COMBAT? We bring death and destruction to the enemy.
Protected from Whom? When was the last time the US was invaded? "We bring death and destruction to the enemy". John, that is the kind of rhetoric that makes the rest of the world take a step back and sigh...I'm sure you didn't mean it in such a brutalist way, but that's how it comes across.

I have been in-country in 7 different combat actions. I have killed people. It's not a fun or glorious job, but it is a job that needs done at various times. Don't deride people you do not know, because you only show your own ignorance.
A particularly crap England Soccer manager once said "I'm not a chicken and I can't lay eggs, but I know a bad one when I see one". The point being that neither Jeff nor myself do not need to have been in seven different war zones to qualify as not being ignorant. I am sure, like you that Jeff is an intelligent man, and can hypothesize about a situation without having to have been there.

Am I looney, simply because you disagree with me? I have been fully vetted, repeatedly, by mental health care providers prior to returning from, and deploying to, as well as during tours to combat areas. I'm as right in the head as any man killing for his country can be.

You shout alot of elitist snobbery while ignoring the reality of the situation. I don't do this gig to allow filthy degenerates to put their hand in the cookie-jar anytime they feel like it. I do it so that the weak, the innocent and the misabused can live a life free from predation by those filthy degenerates.
As I said earlier, your job is a very tough one that at times must be extreme to say the least.
However, It's not elitist snobbery, it's just a different point of view that you don't agree with and one mans "reality of the situation" is different to anothers.

Our leaders are supposed to do the BEST job they are able, FOR THE PEOPLE. Both elected officials and appointed officials. We used to put the BEST man for the job in the hot-seat. Now we put the kid who jumps up and down in his desk, begging for a chance to play teacher, with the flashiest ads and deepest pockets in that position. George Washington didn't run for office...we voted him in, and he took the position...not as an honor...but as a DUTY.
Leave the Bush dynasty out of this

Americans no longer understand the concept of Honor, Integrity or Duty.
I bet 99% of Americans would completely disagree with you on this. Every time I visit the US I find that its people are singularly the most patriotic people in the world. I also find them to be honourable and decent people.

This doesn't mean because I recognize people are unfit for that role, that they don't deserve to have their rights maintained. It just means that I recognize that serving as an elected or appointed official is not a RIGHT, but a PRIVILEGE.
100% agree with you there. I wish that were the case. We have exactly the same issue over the pond.
I will not help bestow privileges upon people who have no concept of the obligations and responsibilities that come with it.

That's not elitist. That's realistic.

I've been sent to hell-holes enough, on the word and whim of our already dim-bulb elected officials. I don't need to go to anymore, anytime, simply because you think EVERY American has a "valid" point-of-view. They don't. If they did, they would have some PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY and not a sense of ENTITLEMENT.
Again John, do the pareto analysis on this statement. take away the top and bottom 5% of the american people that skew the results, and you'll probably find that the rest DO have some personal responsibility and very little sense of entitlement.

It's the "average American" that put us in the positions we find ourselves today...by not holding sacred their own vote to place in office, as well as remove from office, those officials they helped place there to enact policy that is/was/always will be FOR THE PEOPLE, BY THE PEOPLE, OF THE PEOPLE.

Your "average American" that you are so busy putting on a pedestal has failed his neighbor! The unraveling of this Democratic Republic is happening at a quicker pace, thanks to the actions of your "average American" with their complete irresponsibility in who they place in office and the demands they place on them.
But that IS democracy at work John, you just don't like the results mon ami...

A congressman or Senator is not your personal ATM...but that is how the "average American" has treated them. Demanding pork to benefit their extremely short-term wants.
How do you define the "average American"?

You have no concept of how being a leader works. You don't do what people WANT, you do what people NEED. It's NOT a popularity contest and was never meant to be. Ever heard of tough love? That's what a good parent AND a good leader does. It makes us ALL better in the long run.
Unless you know Jeff, how can you say "You have no concept of how being a leader works"? For all you know (unless you DO know him) he could be a great leader.

I pity your family and neighbors (That's a tad harsh). You are abdicating your responsiblities as an American to suggest that the lowest among us is equal to the highest among us. No wonder you can't recognize ruin from robust!
Now who's talking about elitism John?
I suspect that Jeff neither warrants nor wants your pity, and that statement is patronising and below you mate.
Next time you decide to respond to one of my posts, make sure you read EVERYTHING and interpret it AS I SAID IT...not as you choose to digest it. I understand that may be hard for you, what with your NIMBY attitude, but not everyone is as dense or obtuse as you obviously are. Some of us actually try to think laterally as well as literally.

It is extremely frustrating when we encounter people who don't share our point of view. Jeff (IMO) was wrong to to start with "You are kidding, right?" and you got sucked right in there and then blew your cool.

There's too much hatred coming off the page from you, and the rhetoric you type is exactly what fuels some areas of the world's hatred for your country. Cause and effect me old mucker, cause and effect. I'm sure you're a great bloke and I imagine that you have a lot of stories to tell your grandchildren one day about things that I would probably never have the guts to do. Just please tone down the Gung-Ho and the rest of the world will breathe a sigh of relief.

All the best,

Graham.

See above geezer...

 

[Jeff Young]

His entire post seemed so anti-democractic I honestly couldn't tell if he was serious. Which is why I asked if he was kidding. If he was serious, I suppose I was trying to get a rise out of him. That's probably wrong, I agree.

But I find his entire mindset to be dangerous, which basically is our society should be run by folks with guns who "intimately know violence" and that everyone else are weak sheepsauce or something. Add in the fact that he takes himself way too seriously, and yes, honestly, he did need some ribbing.

Jeff, starting your reply with "your kidding me right?" isn't a whole lot different then calling someone an idiot. I mean, your pretty much laughing at his whole point. I wouldn't be surprised that he would be a little upset after that. But, I'm sure you were aiming to get him upset, which speaks volumes of you.

 

[Dave Wood]

I think Roger McGuinn of The Byrds said that best:

"If you're not busy being born, you're busy dieing".

Aren't we all on the same path :idea: ?

Cheers from Doug!!

That was actually Bob Dylan, although it was peformed by the Byrds.
"It's alright Ma, I'm only dieing".

 

[Dave Wood]

there is nothing wrong with Mikes stand, it is how he chooses to live. Negative opinions on guns are fine, in fact I cannot argue against some points made by gun control advocates. However, the fact remains that we have the constitutional right to bear arms in the US and thank the Lord we do.

I agree. This IS the U.S. and I support everyones freedom of choice. If someone chooses NOT to own a firearm, more power to them. I am, however, not so fond of those that do not wish to let others have the freedom of choice. Especially a Constitutional protected one.
It isn't whether a person chooses to own a weapon or not, but whether they choose to lead a violent life or not. I know many people that have weaponry and they are extremely non-violent/confrontational. I also know many that are anti-gun who are extremely aggressive. Ask their partners...
Statistics/opinions are all well and good, but they are only that. I wouldn't at all be surprised to hear, that those women that have killed other pregnant women and then cut the babies out in the last couple years( seems to be waaaay too many) are strongly against guns. That is the convoluted society we live in.

 

[Dave Wood]

Chuck,

Apologies for my ignorance on US constitution. If the majority in the USA wanted to change that right could they do so or is it written in stone.

Regards

Rights in the Constitution, unless you are requesting a rewrite, are inalienable. You might want to look that up. It means that they can NOT be taken away. Even if every single citizen, except you, wants to eliminate it..they can't. But that goes for the other Rights as well. Including freedom of speach. Which is kept that way with the other rights in coordination with each other. I have no King and will not bow down to one.