SL-C powerplant possibility?
- Thread starter c0wboy
- Start date
Might pay you guys to read up on the GM warranty, like most warranties these days it excludes just about everything you might want to do with the SLC or any kit car for that matter...
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Jac...
if the engine is purchased through the GM channels via RCR then the chassis number we provide actually allows the GM warranty to be fully effective.
This is something we have worked on for quite a while...and its been in effect for well over the last two years....but its only relevent if the engine is purchased through our single source supplier and we provide the chassis number directly to out vendor,.
if the engine is purchased through the GM channels via RCR then the chassis number we provide actually allows the GM warranty to be fully effective.
This is something we have worked on for quite a while...and its been in effect for well over the last two years....but its only relevent if the engine is purchased through our single source supplier and we provide the chassis number directly to out vendor,.
I appreciate that you have an agreement along those lines with GM Fran, the points I was refering to was the section under '''' This warranty does NOT cover'''', eg when its been used any form of motorsport, competition etc, use in conjunction with any non standard fuels or performance enhancment equipment, pretty standard stuff for any warranty agreement in todays world, but a fairly easy 'out' for the dealer in the event of a claim with this type of application...
I'd be curious to see what it would cost to DIY build a LS3 based 416" with a whipple giving 700ish at the rear wheels on pump gas all day long, in comparison to buying a crate LS9 and fiddling with it. Granted there's the dry sump issue but there's a reasonable budget for an LS if you're playing with $20K.
David,
I am pretty sure 20k would not even come close to a hand built supercharged engine with good internals...
I am pretty sure 20k would not even come close to a hand built supercharged engine with good internals...
What about this?
$6.5K - an LS3 Crate Engine. Though if you are going to rebuild the internals, I would just get a used one.
$2.7K - fully forged stroker (418) rotating assy. (Includes, Crank, Rods, Pistons, Rings, Bearings, and Rod Studs fully balanced)
$7K - Supercharger (even a 1000hp Kenny Bell)
$1k - Injectors
$500 - Cam
$1.5k - Miscfor rebuild (Gaskets, ARP Head Studs, ect ect)
That's around $19,000
I guess you could save a bit of cash by:
- Buying a used LS3 instead (save $1-2k)
- Probably pick up a good supercharger for $4-5k if you look around (saves $2-3k)
- Skip the fully forged crank, keep everything else forged (save $1k or more)
- Keep the stock cam (heard it responds well to boost) (save $500)
-
- So you could possibly get away with $14k or less
That will save you $$$ for the dry sump when/if you want to go that route.
But then again, you aren't getting titanium rods, though I can only imagine that be worth a few HP, as the valvetrain would be a more limiting factor than the bottom end.
Of course this means you can sell all the used stuff as well, not sure what you would get for it.
$6.5K - an LS3 Crate Engine. Though if you are going to rebuild the internals, I would just get a used one.
$2.7K - fully forged stroker (418) rotating assy. (Includes, Crank, Rods, Pistons, Rings, Bearings, and Rod Studs fully balanced)
$7K - Supercharger (even a 1000hp Kenny Bell)
$1k - Injectors
$500 - Cam
$1.5k - Miscfor rebuild (Gaskets, ARP Head Studs, ect ect)
That's around $19,000
I guess you could save a bit of cash by:
- Buying a used LS3 instead (save $1-2k)
- Probably pick up a good supercharger for $4-5k if you look around (saves $2-3k)
- Skip the fully forged crank, keep everything else forged (save $1k or more)
- Keep the stock cam (heard it responds well to boost) (save $500)
-
- So you could possibly get away with $14k or less
That will save you $$$ for the dry sump when/if you want to go that route.
But then again, you aren't getting titanium rods, though I can only imagine that be worth a few HP, as the valvetrain would be a more limiting factor than the bottom end.
Of course this means you can sell all the used stuff as well, not sure what you would get for it.
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The LS9 is an attractive option for $19k. It's very tough to replicate the performance potential, reliability, and drivability in an aftermarket setup.
Whenever you are calculating the costs to meet or exceed an LS9 you need to add a good % to cover research, unknown incidental items (compatibility , fit, etc), tuning, etc.
I'm all for being different but there is something to be said for opening the crate, dropping it in, plugging in the harness/ sensors/ecu, pressing start and just going.
Whenever you are calculating the costs to meet or exceed an LS9 you need to add a good % to cover research, unknown incidental items (compatibility , fit, etc), tuning, etc.
I'm all for being different but there is something to be said for opening the crate, dropping it in, plugging in the harness/ sensors/ecu, pressing start and just going.
I could not agree more! I have always been a strong proponent of “K.I.S.S” (keep it simple stupid).
Jim
+1 :thumbsup: Tough...and crazy expensive!
Obviously I'm a bit biased here...but I think the LS9 is one of the best production engines ever made. I don't know if it's the absolute best way to get to 600+ horsepower...but GM seems to think so.
Okay guys, here is an exciting alternative:
Cosworth F1 engine for the road - PistonHeads
Some highlights from the article:
"Remember the F1-derived 500bhp 1.6-litre turbo engine that was going to provide the combustion side of the muscle to Jaguar's ill-fated hybrid C-X75 hypercar? Well, that engine is still being developed and could yet make production, we hear.
"it was no secret that Cosworth was the maker behind the four-pot, 10,000rpm screamer that Jaguar had earmarked for the C-X75.
"Whether it's with Jaguar or not, (Cosworth's principal engineer Andy) Ball told us Cosworth were still working to adapt for an eventual production car. "We've being doing development engines. We're still partnering on this," he said. "As a road-going engine it could have similar specific power as a Formula 1 engine of 300hp/litre," he said.
"Of course they'll need a bit more longevity than the average F1 engine, but Cosworth knows a thing about that. "We're very good at taking engines of the limit and knowing where that limit is. With our F1 engines, if we're not breaking stuff, we don't consider we're near the limit."
He was reassuring about not just power but also the emotional punch of very high performance four-cylinder engines. "If you hear the engine I don't think you'd be too disappointed with how it sounds. It doesn't have the V8 rumble but it still sounds impressive and racy," he said."
And light, light, light!
Cosworth F1 engine for the road - PistonHeads
Some highlights from the article:
"Remember the F1-derived 500bhp 1.6-litre turbo engine that was going to provide the combustion side of the muscle to Jaguar's ill-fated hybrid C-X75 hypercar? Well, that engine is still being developed and could yet make production, we hear.
"it was no secret that Cosworth was the maker behind the four-pot, 10,000rpm screamer that Jaguar had earmarked for the C-X75.
"Whether it's with Jaguar or not, (Cosworth's principal engineer Andy) Ball told us Cosworth were still working to adapt for an eventual production car. "We've being doing development engines. We're still partnering on this," he said. "As a road-going engine it could have similar specific power as a Formula 1 engine of 300hp/litre," he said.
"Of course they'll need a bit more longevity than the average F1 engine, but Cosworth knows a thing about that. "We're very good at taking engines of the limit and knowing where that limit is. With our F1 engines, if we're not breaking stuff, we don't consider we're near the limit."
He was reassuring about not just power but also the emotional punch of very high performance four-cylinder engines. "If you hear the engine I don't think you'd be too disappointed with how it sounds. It doesn't have the V8 rumble but it still sounds impressive and racy," he said."
And light, light, light!
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I just tried quickly skimming through this thread, and (albeit in the "dreaming" catagory...) I didn't see anyone suggest the Nissan GTR VR38dett engine. Now it does have some significant negatives...
CON's:
-Crazy Expensive (I'm sure it is... although I'm not sure what the cost is of a brand new vr38dett actually is)
-Difficult to find a used one, if your looking to keep costs semi-reasonable.
-Heavy (according to wikipedia, Nissan VR engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia , with turbos and cats and everything its 608 lb's)
But the advantages are astonishing!...
PRO's:
-Power!: 485 to 545 engine HP stock (depending on the year of the engine)! and its upgradable to 900 HP + for on pump gas (AMS performance and Switzer Performance have these types of packages that are 9 second 1/4 mile capable), or there 1500+ HP packages that run on ethanol/race gas (all of these requiring stupid amounts of money, of course...)
-Mileage: A friend of a friend has a 700 HP GTR, and he told me that even at that power level he still gets 30 MPG on the freeway.
-Engine Bay fitment: This would have to be confirmed with Fran, but it seems like the vr38dett wouldn't have too hard of a time fitting into the SLC's engine bay, perhaps a little taller than an LS, but I'm sure that's manageable.
-Sound: For those (like me) who would prefer not to have the loppy, american sounding engine idle, this v6 sounds amazing!
This is all just dreaming and speculation of course, but that would be my dream SLC engine choice. And if we could swap in the dual clutch electro-magical super-fast-auto-shifting AWD transmission setup, then we'd have the world's ultra-ultimate performance car bar-none! :drunk:
CON's:
-Crazy Expensive (I'm sure it is... although I'm not sure what the cost is of a brand new vr38dett actually is)
-Difficult to find a used one, if your looking to keep costs semi-reasonable.
-Heavy (according to wikipedia, Nissan VR engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia , with turbos and cats and everything its 608 lb's)
But the advantages are astonishing!...
PRO's:
-Power!: 485 to 545 engine HP stock (depending on the year of the engine)! and its upgradable to 900 HP + for on pump gas (AMS performance and Switzer Performance have these types of packages that are 9 second 1/4 mile capable), or there 1500+ HP packages that run on ethanol/race gas (all of these requiring stupid amounts of money, of course...)
-Mileage: A friend of a friend has a 700 HP GTR, and he told me that even at that power level he still gets 30 MPG on the freeway.
-Engine Bay fitment: This would have to be confirmed with Fran, but it seems like the vr38dett wouldn't have too hard of a time fitting into the SLC's engine bay, perhaps a little taller than an LS, but I'm sure that's manageable.
-Sound: For those (like me) who would prefer not to have the loppy, american sounding engine idle, this v6 sounds amazing!
This is all just dreaming and speculation of course, but that would be my dream SLC engine choice. And if we could swap in the dual clutch electro-magical super-fast-auto-shifting AWD transmission setup, then we'd have the world's ultra-ultimate performance car bar-none! :drunk:
Howard Jones
Supporter
I built a motor very simlar to this one for about 4000 dollars. Really......You don't need to spend huge money on a motor. This country has Chevy's comming out it's ears and they are really cheap to bulid.
http://www.summitracing.com/search/...tage-1-crate-engines?autoview=SKU&mbid=517606
http://www.summitracing.com/search/...tage-1-crate-engines?autoview=SKU&mbid=517606
Attachments
If you were to go that route, I would just look at a VQ37VHR, the internals are actually pretty strong. You can get about 500whp out of the stock bottom end. If you strengthened the internals the sky is the limit. You can pick up a used VQ37VHR for about $2.5k or so. I wouldn't bother looking for a VR38, there are differences, but not enough to account for what it would probably cost you.
You could also build a V6 toyota engine for way cheaper. I had a plan of about 5-7K for 400hp and maybe 10K for fully build and from 600-800hp on pump gas out of it. If you look around there are tons of ways to build V6 engines, Toyota or Honda, for cheap with good hp numbers if you want V6 power. I think the GTR motor is heavy also. I still debate in my head if I should have went this route and hope the flat plane crank sounds and feels amazing or I might be right here. I have a 300rwhp NA 9000rpm motor sitting here that I did for about 1-2K in money and is really light and rev happy. hmmm.
Wow, you have a great point. (unless your building a Texas mile car or a Bonneville Salt Flats Car where you really want/need a mega horsepower capable car, I've just never seen any VQ37VHR's that make more than 600HP, do you have any links that I can click on to see some mega HP VQ37's? I really would be interested, if you did. Thanks in advance.)
After some quick research, a new VQ37VHR (without ECU or Harness) is $7,300.00 (see attached), yikes...
A used VQ37VHR, however, (WITH THE AUTO-BLIPPING TRANS, which we could sell for between $700.00 and $1,400.00 buck) is between $3,200.00 and 3,700.00 (all of this according to car-partDOTcom). So the net worst case scenario (after selling the trans) for the used VQ37 is $3,000.00, but the net best case scenario (after selling the trans) for a used VQ37 is $1,800.00! Not bad at all!...
Then, to address the fact that no SLC should make less than 400HP, all you need is a "turn-key twin turbo kit" (or "turn-key supercharger kit") from GTM motorsports (or some other Nissan/Infinity tuner house), and your looking at 500HP for $8,500.00 to $9,000.00, AND NO GURGLY/LOPPY/CLUMSY SOUNDING AMERICAN EXHAUST NOTE (can you tell that I really don't want that?...), sounds great to me!...
(I haven't seen very much aftermarket support for Toyota V-6's, any links? Thanks)
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HONDA announces Factory Twin-Turbocharged V-6
From the article:
Les
Honda Performance Development Unveils 3.5-Liter Prototype Engine ~ Honda Performance Development
From the article:
Now we have a solid new option for the SLC, especially for the racers!
Les
Honda Performance Development Unveils 3.5-Liter Prototype Engine ~ Honda Performance Development
That looks spendy
