GT40s.com Paddock Politics Thread

[Rod]

Apologies Rod, no insult intended.

As for walls, they can work but it does matter how much effort you want to put into it. I've spent time patrolling the Czech, East German borders as well as the Korean DMZ and their draconian measures at border enforcement certainly did work but their task was/is to keep politically oppressed people in, not, keep economic refugees out. So to say a wall couldn't impede illegal entry is simply silly. Nothing is 100% foolproof but it isn't a binary choice either. Getting the millions down to thousands or even hundreds would be a favorable outcome.
As for reasonable measures, a study of the experience of Israel West Bank Barrier determined that the barrier together with associated security activities was effective in preventing suicide bombings and other attacks and fatalities with little if any apparent displacement. The study colluded changes in terrorist behavior likely resulted from the construction of the Barrier, not from other external factors or events.

The Situational Prevention of Terrorism: An Evaluation of the Israeli West Bank Barrier | SpringerLink

I've previously provided the experience in San Diego.

But you make my point, the human carnage of truckloads of dying illegals, tons of illicit drugs and human trafficking victims is unacceptable. They are coming in because parts of the border are not adequately enforced. That is current state and the outcome of doing nothing. It is also partially driven by an expectation of amnesty for those who economic refugees and profits by those trafficking. But if one supports the border carnage, then one certainly wouldn't want to do anything about it.

All that said, without e-verify, reasonable visa overstay enforcement and coherent limits on chain migration a wall would merely be a useless symbol.

No insult taken, just wanted to make sure Doug isn't lambasted because I said something.

Israel, North Korea, the Berlin Wall, etc. is not the same as our US Border patrol agents. If we want to have the real threat of shooting and killing people illegally crossing the border, then that will definitely stem the tide of illegal immigration. That's a deterent. Like that North Korean defector recently being shot trying to cross the DMZ. But I can't believe you would suggest that we take a like aggressive approach like the Israelis or North Koreans.

And I thought your point was that a wall will impede or stop illegal immigration, not illegal immigrants dying in trucks? Seriously, a wall can be tunneled under, scaled and climbed over or there are plenty of illegal operations to get illegal immigrants through border crossings.

But again, I'll repeat, I'm not against building the wall. Build a wall! I just want Mexico to pay for it. I don't. And I don't think it will stop illegal immigrants from finding another way. :thumbsup:

 

[Pat]

But again, I'll repeat, I'm not against building the wall. Build a wall! I just want Mexico to pay for it. I don't. And I don't think it will stop illegal immigrants from finding another way. :thumbsup:

Yikes, we agree. (No insult intended)

As I posted, without e-verify, reasonable visa overstay enforcement and coherent limits on chain migration a wall would merely be a useless symbol.
I read an old statistic that 40% of those in the country illegally overstayed visas. I have not seen anything current. But control of the borders a basic function of government. I don't worry nearly about the Valentín,and Cristóbal coming over the border as I do the Mohammad Atta's who, according to the 911 Commission, took advantage of a flawed U.S. visa program. A 241-page report, “9/11 and Terrorist Travel,” detailed numerous flaws in the visa program that allowed the hijackers to gain entry to and remain in the U.S. to carry out the attacks.
Full disclosure, my Mom was an immigrant and it took her nine years to get her citizenship. She studied a lot more than any of her kids ever did (I was in grade school) and when she passed the test we all had to get new suits and go downtown to watch her being sworn in. It was a very big deal and she was incredibly proud of her certificate. So in my opinion, something earned is more often treasured than a perceived entitlement.

 

[Jeff Young]

Holy cow.

Mueller indictments of Russians. This is from a REPUBLICAN director of the FBI (ex), well respected by both sides prior to starting this investigation:

1. Russians operated in the US in 2014,/15/16 to disrupt our elections.
2. They created grassroots groups and held rallies.
3. they conspired with US persons to target "purple states"
4. They worked to elect Trump over Hillary.

If you cut and pasted a story about Hillary having Parkinsons? You got played by the Russians.

If you read fake articles on line and came to distrust our government and electoral processes? You got played by the Russians.

If you are an AMERICAN, you'll read this and be chilled to the bone.

https://www.justice.gov/file/1035477/download

 

[Rod]

In other news:

1. Dumbo "The Supporter of Wife Beaters and Porn Stars" cheated on his wife at least a 2nd time with a Playboy Playmate.

2. Melania's best bud got $26,000,000 to plan the inauguration, when another event planning firm, the usual firm that does the inaugurations, got their fee of $25,000,000 too. I thought butthead was going to DRAIN THE SWAMP!

3. F'ing Moron ends the DACA program and blames Democrats for not helping DACA recipients. The unmitigated gall.

And on and on this nightmare goes.

 

[Pat]

Holy cow.

Mueller indictments of Russians. This is from a REPUBLICAN director of the FBI (ex), well respected by both sides prior to starting this investigation:

1. Russians operated in the US in 2014,/15/16 to disrupt our elections.
2. They created grassroots groups and held rallies.
3. they conspired with US persons to target "purple states"
4. They worked to elect Trump over Hillary.

If you cut and pasted a story about Hillary having Parkinsons? You got played by the Russians.

If you read fake articles on line and came to distrust our government and electoral processes? You got played by the Russians.

And in spite of all that, had Mrs. Clinton not had the hubris to give her "Deplorables Speech" on September 9th, she probably would have won.
But then we find the allegations that Russians paid Facebook $100K for fake news on Mrs. Clinton. We also find that after Mr. Trump secured the nomination, Fusion GPS was hired on behalf of Mrs. Clinton’s campaign and the D.N.C. by their law firm, Perkins Coie, to compile research about Mr. Trump, his businesses and associates — including possible connections with Russia. It was at that point that Fusion GPS hired Mr. Steele, who has deep sourcing in Russia, to gather information. So if you believe Mr. Trump colluded with the Russians were you also "played by the Russians"?

What Difference Does It Make? (Hillary Clinton REMIX) - YouTube

 

[Rod]

And in spite of all that, had Mrs. Clinton not had the hubris to give her "Deplorables Speech" on September 9th, she probably would have won.
But then we find the allegations that Russians paid Facebook $100K for fake news on Mrs. Clinton. We also find that after Mr. Trump secured the nomination, Fusion GPS was hired on behalf of Mrs. Clinton’s campaign and the D.N.C. by their law firm, Perkins Coie, to compile research about Mr. Trump, his businesses and associates — including possible connections with Russia. It was at that point that Fusion GPS hired Mr. Steele, who has deep sourcing in Russia, to gather information. So if you believe Mr. Trump colluded with the Russians were you also "played by the Russians"?

What Difference Does It Make? (Hillary Clinton REMIX) - YouTube

Yes, Fusion GPS, a Washington D.C. firm, does opposition research for all sorts of clients, but they were originally hired by a conservative website called The Washington Free Beacon.

But here's the thing, who's been indicted and plead guilty so far? Flynn, Manafort, Gates and Papadopolous (and now 13 Russians) all of whom worked for the Trump campaign or in Flynn's case, was the National Security Advisor. Has anyone been indicted in the Clinton campaign? Uh, no.

Also, who took a meeting at Trump Tower with a Russian national with ties to the Kremlin? Kushner, Manafort, Donnie Jr., etc.

And Clinton was right, some of Trump supporters are from/in the "basket of deplorables." No doubt in my mind. And yet, she still won the popular vote by almost 3,000,000 votes.

 

[Jeff Young]

LOL...and that's you, with Russian puppet strings still attached. We now have a respected Republican independent counsel lay out a stunning story in an indictment of Russians operating in the US -- doing things like tweeting from TennesseeGOP - to disrupt and meddle in our election, and you want to just hate on Hillary. Nice.

This isn't a D or R issue. The Russians went after Cruz and Rubio as well. This is a Russian v. American issue.

And the Steele dossier? say what you will (and you'll find some nutty link and then write a long rambling response) but the man was a respected MI6 agent in Russia who discovered pretty serious allegations against Mr. Trump. Nothing in the dossier has been proven to be false, other than talking heads on Faux News teling you it is. Everything in it may be true. A fair amount has been proven to be true.

BEFORE YOU REPLY -- make a commitment to me, as an American. READ THE INDICTMENT. In it's entirety. This was not an attack on Hillary. This was an attack on democracy.

And the Larrys and Lonesomes of the world lapped it up. And plenty on the left too.

 

[Rod]

I wonder why F'ing Moron has delayed the Russian sanctions, which the Republican-majority Congress approved months and months ago? Hmmm.

And do you remember during the campaign, when Dumbo The Supporter of Wife Beaters and Porn Stars said "If Russia is listening" to hack and get Clinton's emails, right? And Russia did, conveniently just an hour after the Hollywood Access tape was released.

There's so much Trump-Russia smoke here, I'd be suprised that Dumb$hit makes it to the end of his term. I mean, Bannon just spoke with Mueller for 20 hours. And yet, F'ing Moron is avoiding meeting with Mueller, because he'll perjure himself.

 

[Larry L.]

...Nothing in the dossier has been proven to be false...

One more time: even top DEMOCRATS have admitted there isn't a scintilla of E-V-I-D-E-N-CE that 'backs' the collusion "allegations". NOTHING.

...A fair amount has been proven to be true.

Like what exactly...as pertains DIRECTLY to the allegations against Trump and his campaign.

...And the Larrys and Lonesomes of the world lapped it up...

Deputy A.G. Rosenstein: "There's NO allegation in this indictment that ANY AMERICAN (ANY...ANY...ANY...ANY...ANY AMERICAN) was a knowing participant in this illegal activity."

"Any American" would o-b-v-i-o-u-s-l-y include TRUMP and his campaign. Therefore, so much for the left's constant drumbeat INSISTING for over a year now that the contrary was the case. Russia! Russia! Russia! Collusion! Collusion! Collusion! was PURE BULL FEATHERS from the get go. The FISA warrant used to launch the Mueller investigation was based almost totally upon the unsubstantiated information contained in the now debunked Steele dossier and the lies of omission by which the FBI deceived the judge into granting that warrant regarding actual material FACTS concerning said dossier (who paid for it, sources used, info verifications supposedly done, et al).

Buuuuuuuuuut, yeeew jus' keep right on spinin' all you want, there, Counselor.

G'night, All.

 

[Rod]

Deputy A.G. Rosenstein: "There's NO allegation in this indictment that ANY AMERICAN (ANY...ANY...ANY...ANY...ANY AMERICAN) was a knowing participant in this illegal activity."

“This indictment” and “this illegal activity.” Read it again. That’s very specific. And that means there’s MORE coming. And “this illegal activity” only relates to the social media aspect.

And also today, a Californian has pleaded guilty (ecommerce fraud) in conjunction with today’s indictment of 13 Russians. Stay tuned for more. Yes!

 

[Rod]

1. We now know Russia interfered with the election. Not a hoax or fake news. And Trump admitted as much today.

2. Crimes were committed.

3. The indictment said the Russians conspired “with persons known and unknown,” which may or may not include Americans.

4. Manafort, Donnie Jr., and Jered Kushner had a meeting with a Russian National with ties to the Kremlin.

5. Stayed tuned. More to come.

 

[Mike]

What happened to the poll Ron? Why didn’t you lock down the paddock to forum supporters only? That was the poll result right?

 

[Pat]

Nothing in the dossier has been proven to be false, other than talking heads on Faux News teling you it is. Everything in it may be true. A fair amount has been proven to be true.

BEFORE YOU REPLY -- make a commitment to me, as an American. READ THE INDICTMENT. In it's entirety. This was not an attack on Hillary. This was an attack on democracy.

Jeff, seriously, please provide any credible source that "A fair amount (of the Steele dossier) has been proven to be true."
Forbes Magazine disagrees with you and labels the Steele Dossier "utter nonsense" and that "The U.S. intelligence community purportedly has examined the allegations but have not confirmed any of them". It goes on to say the dossier is "not worthy of a wacky conspiracy theory of an alien invasion".
https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulro...ier-is-false-news-and-heres-why/#365314026867

But then if the dossier's essential element of the Trump Campaign's collusion and bribery with the Russians is true, Mr. Muller's special council will no doubt find out. But so far there does not seem to be any evidence of that. What we do know, according to the NY Times" is that Russian money went to the Clinton's personally in speaking fees to as well as $millions to the Clinton Foundation. Those contributions were not publicly disclosed by the Clintons, despite an agreement Mrs. Clinton had struck with the Obama White House to publicly identify all donors.

As for Mr. Steele as a "credible source" why did the FBI fire him and why did the U.S. Senate make a criminal referral against him? The referral says there is evidence that Steele was secretly fed possibly partisan information by supporters of Hillary Clinton. It goes on to say “there is substantial evidence suggesting that Mr. Steele materially misled the FBI about a key aspect of his dossier efforts, one which bears on his credibility”.

(Caution agreement alert!) I do agree that the Russians seek to interfere in our elections. They've been doing so since the 20s. Politico reported that as early as 2014, the Obama administration received a report that quoted a well-connected Russian source as saying that the Kremlin was building a disinformation arm that could be used to interfere in Western democracies. It has been suggested by the Washington Post that the inaction at the time by the Obama administration was because he thought Hillary Clinton would win the election. Apparently, the Russian intervention became a big deal only after Clinton lost.

The Russians will continue to "interfere", as will the Chinese, the North Koreans and a any number of others seeking to shape our government to their liking and we need to take all reasonable efforts to thwart it.

 

[Pat]

Yes, Fusion GPS, a Washington D.C. firm, does opposition research for all sorts of clients, but they were originally hired by a conservative website called The Washington Free Beacon.

But the Steele dossier was paid for by the Clinton Campaign and the DNC. The criminal referral I mentioned earlier says it may have even been fed by the DNC and KGB operatives.

What I also found interesting in the new Muller indictment:
“At the same time, Defendants and their co-conspirators, through another ORGANIZATION-controlled group, organized a rally in New York called ‘Trump Is NOT My President’ held on or about November 12, 2016. Similarly, Defendants and their co-conspirators organized a rally entitled ‘Charlotte Against Trump’ in Charlotte, North Carolina, held on or about November 19, 2016.”

Further, it says the Russian assumed the identities of Americans to plant stories on social media sites.

Is anybody here a Russian bot?

Sorry for the late edit but I just came across a pretty fair minded article from Slate of all places. I think it does a pretty good job of summarizing not only what happened but what will continue to happen with Russian interference in our democratic processes.

How Russia exported “political technology” to America.

 

[Doug S.]

What happened to the poll Ron? Why didn’t you lock down the paddock to forum supporters only? That was the poll result right?

Mike, I don’t think this forum is a democracy or even a republic...Ron owns the forum, and he’s not bound by the vote. It’s his to run as he pleases.

No likey the Paddock? No clickey-dickey on the “GT40s Politics” thread linkie...easy, peasey, Japanesey :2thumbsup:

Cheers!!

Doug

 

[Jeff Young]

What happened to the poll Ron? Why didn’t you lock down the paddock to forum supporters only? That was the poll result right?

Boy you really are the most special snowflake of all aren't you?

Look, ideas I don't like! Ban! Censor! lol

I've got about $10k of free legal services in this forum. Maybe I should get to decide that you and your whiny $395 should take a hike?

 

[Jeff Young]

Veek, READ THE INDICTMENT. Word for word. Every American should.

This is probably the key statement in the dossier. I'm not talking about the pissing prostitutes and all that (although as every day goes by and just what a piece of crap our President is as a person comes out more and more), I'm talking about what Steele was really concerned about. This:

“The TRUMP operation was both supported and directed by Russian President Vladimir Putin. Its aim was to sow discord both within the U.S. itself, but more especially within the Transatlantic alliance.”

Mueller has just alleged it is true. Trump and Co. have denied this for three years. Against the advice of our intelligence agencies? Why?

Also, small point, you are quoting Hannity when you say Steele was fired by the FBI. No, he wasn't. The FBI stopped using him as a source because Steele got frustrated with their pace and went to other news sources.

And in response that indictment, yet another predictable CLINTON FOUNDATION! The Republicans control all apparati of government. If they wanted to, they could investigate, and prosecute. There is a reason they don't. Because they don't have anything to convict on and they know it. Were there some bad optics there? SUre. Did the Clinton Foundation do anything wrong? Despite years of investigation, no.

Unlike with the Russia investigation.

 

[Mike]

You're like the loud mouth drunk in the bar that gets a couple of drinks in him and becomes 6 feet tall and bullet proof. I'm certain you're a completely different person when speaking to others face to face.

 

[Jeff Young]

You're like the loud mouth drunk in the bar that gets a couple of drinks in him and becomes 6 feet tall and bullet proof. I'm certain you're a completely different person when speaking to others face to face.

5'11" and 1/2, In....Real.....LIFE!

Naw, I'm pretty much the same Captain Snowflake. Sorry, Field Marshall Snowflake.

Ow! The words! They hurt me!

 

[Doug S.]

1. We now know Russia interfered with the election. Not a hoax or fake news. And Trump admitted as much today.

2. Crimes were committed.

3. The indictment said the Russians conspired “with persons known and unknown,” which may or may not include Americans.

4. Manafort, Donnie Jr., and Jered Kushner had a meeting with a Russian National with ties to the Kremlin.

5. Stayed tuned. More to come.

Oh, it gets worse, Rod. News sources now report that up to 130 individuals in the Trump administration (if you can call it an administration) have had access to classified information without having the necessary (dare we say “required”?) clearances. One source did refer to the required clearances as “permanent”...but we are now past a year into his term, so there has been plenty of time for “Trump the coward”, who blatantly ignores legitimate questions from members of the press if he thinks the answer would not glorify him, to get those clearances done.

He’s gotta go, plain and simple, he’s just gotta go!

Doug