Good Evening! I'm afraid 16g ERW is just not man enough for the job! its ok for jigging purposes but not for suspension components on a perfomance car of any sort, its cheap, but the wall thickness issue as mentioned above i've never encountered in 30 years of fabrication sorry. i've begun to make my own from T45 and S514 and soon i'll look at my uprights in a similar material. Do hope you get some satisfaction tho
Possible Suspension Arm Failure, Racing - Tornado GT40
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Mark
Please read my post.
Thanks
Andy
Please read my post.
Thanks
Andy
A couple points.
Glad that Tornado cleared the air a bit and that they offer an upgraded suspension. This is probably the best solution to go with...keeping it all in house, not voiding any warranty, etc. Given their long history you could figure they would have a solution for this (can we have a link to see it Andy?). He MAY also be right in that some have agendas (although I don't see that) about posting here instead of contacting him, but to me, I really appreciate the original poster for bringing this matter to light and possibly saving someone (and Tornado in the long run) a heavy price!
All that said, I would also suggest that going to the extreme of calling someone libelous because they posted what they saw (16 gauge) isn't exactly the way to gain favor. I say that as someone who actually plans to purchase from Tornado (several parts they make that I like...Coyote headers for example that look sweet!), not as someone who wishes to besmirch them.
Glad that Tornado cleared the air a bit and that they offer an upgraded suspension. This is probably the best solution to go with...keeping it all in house, not voiding any warranty, etc. Given their long history you could figure they would have a solution for this (can we have a link to see it Andy?). He MAY also be right in that some have agendas (although I don't see that) about posting here instead of contacting him, but to me, I really appreciate the original poster for bringing this matter to light and possibly saving someone (and Tornado in the long run) a heavy price!
All that said, I would also suggest that going to the extreme of calling someone libelous because they posted what they saw (16 gauge) isn't exactly the way to gain favor. I say that as someone who actually plans to purchase from Tornado (several parts they make that I like...Coyote headers for example that look sweet!), not as someone who wishes to besmirch them.
I hope nobody as andy says are making there arms out of gas barrel tubing that is an accident waiting to happen.
regards mick.
regards mick.
Just for reference, our control arms are made from 7g DOM tubing. Note that the damper connection's force is almost a straight line into the outer hub pivot (a steel spherical bearing), making the bending stress in the tube almost zero.
Seymour Snerd
Lifetime Supporter
How is it not "correct" to bring this subject up here? Who would benefit and in what way from keeping it quiet?
Here is the link to a video clip of the 9 GTDs at the Ring
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDVZ1jgWjWA]ford gtd40's tearing up the nurburgring - YouTube[/ame]
Mine is the Gulf coloured car and in car camera but my suspension was never that shiny so would confess to that being the factory demo car but also with stock suspension! Good memories. Never went above 145 mph your honour!
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDVZ1jgWjWA]ford gtd40's tearing up the nurburgring - YouTube[/ame]
Mine is the Gulf coloured car and in car camera but my suspension was never that shiny so would confess to that being the factory demo car but also with stock suspension! Good memories. Never went above 145 mph your honour!
That is Chris Stahl's P1079!!
Here is the link to a video clip of the 9 GTDs at the Ring
ford gtd40's tearing up the nurburgring - YouTube
Mine is the Gulf coloured car and in car camera but my suspension was never that shiny so would confess to that being the factory demo car but also with stock suspension! Good memories. Never went above 145 mph your honour!
That is great footage!
When was it taken?
Should be done again, and........count me in!!!!!
Hi Doc,
A few of us did it this year after the LMC.
2 40s , 1 original M3, and a Mazda RX8.
See club site for onboard with PDub.
We all had a blast.
BTW between LMC & the Ring, stopped by Montlhery, sadly despite much blagging to the gatekeeper, did not manage to get on the banking.
One day !!!! :thinking::thinking::thinking::thinking:
A few of us did it this year after the LMC.
2 40s , 1 original M3, and a Mazda RX8.
See club site for onboard with PDub.
We all had a blast.
BTW between LMC & the Ring, stopped by Montlhery, sadly despite much blagging to the gatekeeper, did not manage to get on the banking.
One day !!!! :thinking::thinking::thinking::thinking:
in the more original GT40 style (see look alikes?) they also have it more to the hub so the stress on the arm is less.
03 - Front Suspension, Shocks, Steering & Related
one part out of that link>>
not that those parts would fit on a Tornado GT40, but as example.
the closer to the hub (shok mounting point) the less stress on the arm, not that the original look version looks so strong, but that you can work on also if you need.
03 - Front Suspension, Shocks, Steering & Related
one part out of that link>>
not that those parts would fit on a Tornado GT40, but as example.
the closer to the hub (shok mounting point) the less stress on the arm, not that the original look version looks so strong, but that you can work on also if you need.
1994. Back when my car was standard in every way, you could stoill get CompT/A tyres in the GTD sizes and the world was quite different than to today! Does that qualify to call it the good old days?
The compromise between the lower damper position being really outboard or in a bit towards the middle of a suspension arm, is that it has effect an on the damper and spring rating. Put a coil over damper at 45 degrees and you need really big springs and stronger mounts all round to get the same damping effects. Get it more vrtical and the forces are less. All suspension is a compromise in the end design. Personally I never felt comfortable with the P4 replicca (Foreman?) because of this. A race car tends to be rubbish (and dangerous) on the road and a road tends to be rubbish (but still fun) on a race track.
Guys,
both sides have been dismounted and send to a 3rd party manufacture to make some arms which are up to the job.
While dismounting the parts we discovered that the left side is also bend, so it was not a problem of the track.
Unfortunately I am absorbed by my regular job at the moment and and will find time to disclose pics and comments earliest end of the week ....So stay tuned...
Cheers
(C)arlos
both sides have been dismounted and send to a 3rd party manufacture to make some arms which are up to the job.
While dismounting the parts we discovered that the left side is also bend, so it was not a problem of the track.
Unfortunately I am absorbed by my regular job at the moment and and will find time to disclose pics and comments earliest end of the week ....So stay tuned...
Cheers
(C)arlos
Dear all
just one point from my side. We have to differentiate Spring and shock and positioning of Spring along the shock absorber. Spring preload ( or changing of spring preload by changing the lower platform level) is not changing the total travel of the spring and point of load where it goes coil bind. As the words says it is only changing the preload which has to be overcome . over all the spring at a given load above the preload will always have the same compressed length.
So first of all the question must be answered , is the spring the correct one. A to weak of a spring for a given load will always go coilbind, independent what preload it will be given.
Secondly. if the spring is to weak the shock can go on block. Same will happen if the spring is to postioned to low on the shock , the shock will go on block before the spring goes on coil bind.
Therefore i can not fully agree to some reasonings in previous postings
TOM
just one point from my side. We have to differentiate Spring and shock and positioning of Spring along the shock absorber. Spring preload ( or changing of spring preload by changing the lower platform level) is not changing the total travel of the spring and point of load where it goes coil bind. As the words says it is only changing the preload which has to be overcome . over all the spring at a given load above the preload will always have the same compressed length.
So first of all the question must be answered , is the spring the correct one. A to weak of a spring for a given load will always go coilbind, independent what preload it will be given.
Secondly. if the spring is to weak the shock can go on block. Same will happen if the spring is to postioned to low on the shock , the shock will go on block before the spring goes on coil bind.
Therefore i can not fully agree to some reasonings in previous postings
TOM
This can happen to any car.
One thing (actually four) that I have for my car is Shock Bumpers. These will prevent coil bind when the right length is installed as well as preventing damage to the shock absorber itself.
AFCO Standard Blue Shock Bumper - Speedway Motors, America's Oldest Speed Shop
You can purchase these in varying rates of hardness and cut/shim to the appropriate length.
One thing (actually four) that I have for my car is Shock Bumpers. These will prevent coil bind when the right length is installed as well as preventing damage to the shock absorber itself.
AFCO Standard Blue Shock Bumper - Speedway Motors, America's Oldest Speed Shop
You can purchase these in varying rates of hardness and cut/shim to the appropriate length.
Dear Randy
agree. of course this can happen to every car if the spring is to weak.
Just wanted to point out that the level of preload is not influencing coil bind tendency in any way. Therefore the level of the lower Spring collar is not relevant if the spring develops coil bind or not and therefore the bend arm has nothing to do with the lower spring collar level. It would not make any difference if the lower spring level would be screwed up as far it goes. This just changes the ride height of the car, but the spring would go coil bind at the very same load. Just basic suspension knowledge principles.
Of course shock bumpers can slow down the hard bump effect of coil bind or shock block. But this should be just a last reserve . In my opinion is just curing the symptoms and not the illness.
TOM
agree. of course this can happen to every car if the spring is to weak.
Just wanted to point out that the level of preload is not influencing coil bind tendency in any way. Therefore the level of the lower Spring collar is not relevant if the spring develops coil bind or not and therefore the bend arm has nothing to do with the lower spring collar level. It would not make any difference if the lower spring level would be screwed up as far it goes. This just changes the ride height of the car, but the spring would go coil bind at the very same load. Just basic suspension knowledge principles.
Of course shock bumpers can slow down the hard bump effect of coil bind or shock block. But this should be just a last reserve . In my opinion is just curing the symptoms and not the illness.
TOM
Carlos, I've sent you a PM and will be sending a message to Andy at Southern GT also.
I am a professional engineer with 46 yrs in heavy industrial structures and major mechanical equipment for mining and ports. I have been involved in racing for 57 years, first in go karts, then following a trans am team, then NHRA drag racing and now in sports car open track events with a supercharged 03 Cobra Mustang and next season in a new GT40 replica. I've designed and modified chassis and engine parts from the time I was 12 years old.
I don't have any commercial interest in a competetive manufacturer but as a professional engineer I am interested in public safety and the safety of our fellow GT40 enthusiasts. I've done my own calculations by estimating the relative chassis pick up points, loads and bending moments and the properties of the tubing used and am not surprised that problems have been encountered with that version of wishbones and shock mounting.
Gord Zonailo
GordsFord Performance Engineering
I am a professional engineer with 46 yrs in heavy industrial structures and major mechanical equipment for mining and ports. I have been involved in racing for 57 years, first in go karts, then following a trans am team, then NHRA drag racing and now in sports car open track events with a supercharged 03 Cobra Mustang and next season in a new GT40 replica. I've designed and modified chassis and engine parts from the time I was 12 years old.
I don't have any commercial interest in a competetive manufacturer but as a professional engineer I am interested in public safety and the safety of our fellow GT40 enthusiasts. I've done my own calculations by estimating the relative chassis pick up points, loads and bending moments and the properties of the tubing used and am not surprised that problems have been encountered with that version of wishbones and shock mounting.
Gord Zonailo
GordsFord Performance Engineering
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