Rumbles SLC Build

[Bill]

I got the borders of my side windows painted. I used the poly-carbonate paint from Jerry Bickel.

Per the instructions on the can, once you tape off the border you need to scuff the Lexan and spray numerous light coats. That keeps the paint from running under the tape.

The only instruction on the can that you should not follow is Step 6 that says "Allow 24 hours for paint to thoroughly dry before removing the masking tape". Against my better judgment, I waited 24 hours and had a very ragged edge. The paint has an elastic quality, that rips unevenly when the tape is removed. I tried a razor to cut a separation line to reduce the uneven ripping, but no luck. I ended up remasking and repainting the border.

Pull the masking tape off while the paint is still tacky and you will get a smooth edge.

 

[Bill]

When I make right turns, my fuel vent line spills a little fuel on the payment. I routed my fuel vent hose as high as possible and over to the opposite side of the tank and then it exits thru a hole in the pan. The hose is run at an angle so any fuel in the line flows back to the tank. This is an old school setup that prevents fuel from spilling in a rollover.

I don't think a fuel vent check valve will fix the "right turn" fuel spills. In the past, I've tried a loop in the vent hose, but that holds fuel and blocks the vent like the plumbing trap under a sink.

Any suggestions?

 

[Jim T]

When I make right turns, my fuel vent line spills a little fuel on the payment. I routed my fuel vent hose as high as possible and over to the opposite side of the tank and then it exits thru a hole in the pan. The hose is run at an angle so any fuel in the line flows back to the tank. This is an old school setup that prevents fuel from spilling in a rollover.

I don't think a fuel vent check valve will fix the "right turn" fuel spills. In the past, I've tried a loop in the vent hose, but that holds fuel and blocks the vent like the plumbing trap under a sink.

Any suggestions?

Yes,I have a suggestion!
E Z fix, just track the car....no right turns required! :laugh:
Sorry Bill, just couldn't resist.


Jim

 

[Will Campbell]

When I make right turns, my fuel vent line spills a little fuel on the payment. I routed my fuel vent hose as high as possible and over to the opposite side of the tank and then it exits thru a hole in the pan. The hose is run at an angle so any fuel in the line flows back to the tank. This is an old school setup that prevents fuel from spilling in a rollover.

I don't think a fuel vent check valve will fix the "right turn" fuel spills. In the past, I've tried a loop in the vent hose, but that holds fuel and blocks the vent like the plumbing trap under a sink.

Any suggestions?

Why don't you think a check valve will work? If installed correctly, it should seal fuel out, but allow air to pass freely.

I have one in my car for this purpose (it's a valve with the spring removed, so the ball moves relative to position, sealing if the car is shiny-side-down, and allowing air burps to pass through it, but not slugs of fuel).

I am also running the overflow (after the valve) to a carbon canister that Allan pioneered. That way if some small amount of fuel or vapor does escape while the ball is beginning to settle, the vapor goes to the canister where it is absorbed by the carbon. Excess vapor from the canister is vented to the rear of the car, behind the rear wheels.

Of course, it's also true that I haven't been driving my car making hard right turns on the street, either...:lipsrsealed:

 

[Fran Hall RCR]

We use check valve vents in the race cars for that very purpose

part # FS TPV6 from Pegasus

 

[Bill Musarra]

Will is correct. I have the same setup on both sides of my 40 for both tanks. When I first set the system up I wanted the drivers side to not have any pumps and passively flow to the right tank. All returns from the FI went to the driver's side. None to the passenger's. Didn't have a rollover valve. First time I cranked it up. fuel shot out the driver's side vent. It was then discovered that the guys that plumbed it with the crossover line over a frame rail. Replumbed it, took the line off the rail and routed it straight to the driver's side, added the rollover valves on both sides and plumbed the return to both tanks. The one to the passenger side went to the gated pickup area. Not one drop since.
The rollovers from Demon Tweeks(where I got mine) are slightly loaded to a very low #. I found 3 to choose from.Mocal VR Series Roll Over Valve 3/4UNF 90 Degree Male to -6 Jic Straight Male - Demon Tweeks
Check them out.

Bill

 

[Bill]

I got my tablet installed and working recently.

Tablet
I found a Samsung Tab3 7" tablet on ebay for just $120. It is a 2nd Gen Tab3 model and is an upgraded version with an AT&T SIM card. I wanted mobile data so Apps such as GoogleMaps, TuneIn, Pandora, etc can use the data connection while on the road.

Android Home Screen
I refined the home screen that is displayed since my earlier posts. It now has a dark blue Carbon Fiber background to match my gauge cluster and so it does doesn't blind me when driving at night.:shocked2:

Headliner
I recessed the tablet up into the headliner panel so it does not interfere with my view. I started by cutting a flap into the headliner, using a template to ensure it was symmetrical. With the headliner installed, determined how high I could recess the flap and still clear the body's roof and the intake scoop ducting. Then I formed aluminum sheet to fill the open slots in the headliner, as a backer for fiberglass. Three layers of fiberglass later, the basic shape of the recessed panel was set and the aluminum backer sheets were removed. Then I positioned the heavily taped tablet and used it as a form for the third side of the recessed panel. The last steps were a coat of epoxy with filler and then finished with a thin layer of body filler.

The USB and audio cables are hidden by winglets I fabricated.

Camera
I was going to use a weatherized webcam as the rear view camera. However, I discovered that the apps that enable webcam viewing on Android have very limited comparability to just particular tablets. None of the comparable tablets would have worked in my situation.

So I switched to a wide angle WiFi camera. It's mounted in the body below the license plate. The camera works best as a backup camera for parking in tight spots. You can see as objects as they nearly touch the the center area, and then the edge of view angles out to 30" at the sides of the body.

There are two implications to consider with a WiFi Camera:

1. Mobile data dependent apps (like Pandora, TuneIn, Maps, etc) will not work when the WiFi camera is turned on. This is because a WiFi Camera looks like a WiFi network to an Android tablet and Android can only connect to 1 network at a time. This is true whether the WiFi data is coming from an imbedded Telco SIM card or from your personal cell phone’s hot spot. This means that audio streaming apps (like Pandora or TuneIn) will stop when the WiFi network is turned on to view the camera. A Macro App can be used to automatically switch between WiFi and Mobile Data networks for other apps:

• Tasker has a vast amount of function, but is difficult to learn.
• MacroDroid is much simpler to learn and has functions to switch between WiFi and Mobile Data networks.

2. Android automatically connects to the strongest available WiFi network. That means that it may try to connect with a WiFi network other than the camera, like your home’s WiFi or a cell phone’s hot spot.​

 

[Will Campbell]

There are two implications to consider with a WiFi Camera:

1. Mobile data dependent apps (like Pandora, TuneIn, Maps, etc) will not work when the WiFi camera is turned on. This is because a WiFi Camera looks like a WiFi network to an Android tablet and Android can only connect to 1 network at a time. This is true whether the WiFi data is coming from an imbedded Telco SIM card or from your personal cell phone’s hot spot. This means that audio streaming apps (like Pandora or TuneIn) will stop when the WiFi network is turned on to view the camera. A Macro App can be used to automatically switch between WiFi and Mobile Data networks for other apps:

• Tasker has a vast amount of function, but is difficult to learn.
• MacroDroid is much simpler to learn and has functions to switch between WiFi and Mobile Data networks.

2. Android automatically connects to the strongest available WiFi network. That means that it may try to connect with a WiFi network other than the camera, like your home’s WiFi or a cell phone’s hot spot.​

Great work as always, Bill!

I'd add one more consideration to using a wifi camera, which is that there is typically a small processing delay, so that the display is not perfectly real-time as you would expect with a hardwired camera. Actually, there is a delay in even non-wireless cameras, but it is so small as to be largely unnoticeable. The wireless ones I have seen (including the one I have for my rear view camera in the SLC) all suffer from about a half-second delay, which may be a factor if you aren't aware of it and don't compensate for it.

To be clear, the display is fine, it's just that you are seeing what is happening about .5 seconds after it actually happened.

That means, among other things, that you might not want to make emergency lane changes with nearby cars unless you first confirm what you see in the rear view with another source like a mirror. If the camera shows you don't have any cars anywhere close, it's fine to juke over a lane if you need to do so in an emergency.

Also, if you have a dedicated tablet for the mirror function, the network issues Bill brought up aren't applicable, as you will be using only the camera's wifi network.

 

[Bill]

Yup, I'm seeing about a 1/2 second delay as well. IMHO, the rear view camera is more for backing into tight spots and not as useful in traffic, so the delay isn't really a problem.

When I started this journey, I thought that using a tablet for a infotainment system and rear view camera would be straight forward. After 6 months of evaluating countless tablets, cameras, Apps, etc, think I finally have it figured out. It really isn't that hard. Its just a matter of finding the right combination of components and configuring them so they work together. Along the way, I was surprised at how little information there is on this topic.

To help other builders, I wrote a 16 page guide on how to setup a tablet as an infotainment system. It's a printable document that compiles all my posts on the topic from the past 6 months, along with quite a bit of other guidance that was not posted. Send me an email if you would like a draft version of the guide.

 

[Bill]

Here's an example of how an anal tendency can take you down a focused path on a very minor detail.

RCR has optional aluminum covers to dress up the holes where the latch pins go thru the body for front and rear clams. The cover has square cut edges and I thought it would look better if they were rounded over.

The nice thing about aluminum is that you can use woodworking tools to cut, drill and shape it. A typical router with a round-over bit and guide bearing will do the job. However, the cover is not thick enough for the guide bearing to follow, so you need to create a thick template.

1. Countersink the screw holes in the cover. This will give the cover a more finished look and provide a flat surface for the router to glide over.
2. Screw the cover to scrap piece of wood.
3. Install a straight cut laminate bit in your router. With the router is resting on the wood side, adjust the depth so the bearing follows the aluminum cover's outline.
4. Route around the cover's outline, including the hole. This will cut a rough template of the cover. Its important that the routed edges of the template be free of irregularities, because those irregularities will be reproduced when routing the cover. Spend some time sanding the cut edges.
5. Swap to a round-over router bit. With the router is resting on the aluminum cover side, adjust the depth of the bit to the round-over shape you desire and ensure the guide bearing follows the template.
6. Secure the cover/template in a vise and cut the round-over edges with your router. Even with a perfect template, there will still be some irregular edges so some sanding is needed.
7. Repeat Step 6 for the other 3 covers.

So there you go. A perfect way to keep an anal builder occupied for most of a day:smash:

 

[Jack]

Nicely done Bill!

 

[Doc Kaler]

Bill,

I just came across this Android capable data logger:

RaceCapture/Pro Data Acquisition System | Autosport Labs

Just an FYI as I have no experience with this logger or Android devices for that matter!

 

[Mesa]

I got the borders of my side windows painted. I used the poly-carbonate paint from Jerry Bickel.

Per the instructions on the can, once you tape off the border you need to scuff the Lexan and spray numerous light coats. That keeps the paint from running under the tape.

The only instruction on the can that you should not follow is Step 6 that says "Allow 24 hours for paint to thoroughly dry before removing the masking tape". Against my better judgment, I waited 24 hours and had a very ragged edge. The paint has an elastic quality, that rips unevenly when the tape is removed. I tried a razor to cut a separation line to reduce the uneven ripping, but no luck. I ended up remasking and repainting the border.

Pull the masking tape off while the paint is still tacky and you will get a smooth edge.

I suppose we should be contributing to the wiki on all these little details. The way to avoid having paint leak under tape is to use 3M fineline tape, it is a blue plastic with no corregation made for just these type fine masking tasks. Of course it may not have helped this paint edge chipping problem but it sure would have given a sharp edge if wet sprayed and pulled.

 

[Bill]

Actually, I got a good seal using Frog tape and there was no leakage under the tape at all.

The problem is that when lexan paint dries, it is more elastic than regular paint. The relative stiffness in regular paint leaves a clean edge because it breaks cleanly from the tape when it is removed. The elastic property of lexan paint makes it rip unevenly when the tape is removed. In other words, the uneven edge runs from the tape edge and into the painted portion (not under the tape). Its kinda like difference between ripping paper (regular paint) and ripping a Saran food wrap (lexan paint).

Even with regular paint, you will get a better edge if you remove the tape while the paint is still tacky. But with lexan paint, its even more important to remove it before it gets elastic.

I suppose we should be contributing to the wiki on all these little details. The way to avoid having paint leak under tape is to use 3M fineline tape, it is a blue plastic with no corregation made for just these type fine masking tasks. Of course it may not have helped this paint edge chipping problem but it sure would have given a sharp edge if wet sprayed and pulled.

 

[Bill]

I got my rear window in recently.

I made the top edge border a long arc to visually lengthen the roof line. The rest of the window border is about the same width as the windshield and side windows (3/4").

Once the hole was cut, the rear clam was a noticeably weaker "Jello-ped". It was particularly flimsy along the top and rear edges. So I cut a couple sections from the fiberglass window opening and bonded them to the rear clam using some leftover 3M 8155 Panel Epoxy. That significantly strengthened the rear clam.

I didn't want to drill thru the Lexan and have exposed fasteners. So I experimented with several combinations or epoxy and Click-Bond fasteners to mechanically secure the window from the inside. I thought I had a suitable combination and ended up with 14 Click-Bond fasteners to hold down the window. Then I drove to a cruise-in about 45 minutes away. By the time I got there, the bond on 12 of the 14 fasteners had failed. Fortunately I had some Gorilla tape with me to limp it home.

I switched to 3M double sided automotive tape and that seems so be holding.

 

[Jack]

Did you try Plesus MA300?
The Methacrylate adhesive formula works well on Lexan.
Epoxies, not so well.

Back window looks good too!

I've been playing with a solid fiberglass part for mine.
Layed out vents and formed some mesh today.

Nicely done Bill, congrats!

 

[Bill]

Jack,

I didn't try the Plexus MA300, but it looks like good stuff. The only problem with it is that it is a white/yellow color, so you will see it thru the lexan.

I only experimented with black epoxies because they blend in with the black border paint.

 

[Jack]

Jack,

I didn't try the Plexus MA300, but it looks like good stuff. The only problem with it is that it is a white/yellow color, so you will see it thru the lexan.

I only experimented with black epoxies because they blend in with the black border paint.

Gotcha'

 

[Michael Fling]

Bill,

Take a look at "Killer Red tape", Polyethylene Adhesives and Glue - What are your choices.... I wanted to install my windows and light lens covers without screws too and I was considering this product.

 

[Bill]

Michael,

Dirt tends to collect behind the headlight covers, so you will need to remove the lenses occasionally for cleaning. I think that means you will want some sort of mechanical fastener vs a more permanent adhesive. I still think gluing fasteners to the back is an option, if the right adhesive can be found.

The link in your post below is for Polyethylene Adhesives, but Lexan is a Poly-carbonate. This same company also has a section on Poly-carbonate adhesives. However, they don't offer a black Poly-carbonate adhesive (just clear, white, blue, tan, etc). Dieing an adhesive may be an option as well.

It may be worth contacting a reputable adhesive company for advise, like 3M.com/adhesives (800-362-3550). I've found that the Tech Support for these types of companies are very helpful.

For example, the NPT fittings in my fuel tank were weeping just a very slight amount thru the threads. I called Locktite's Tech Support and they pointed me to their 565 thread sealer that is made specifically for fuel fittings. It worked like a champ.

Bill,

Take a look at "Killer Red tape", Polyethylene Adhesives and Glue - What are your choices.... I wanted to install my windows and light lens covers without screws too and I was considering this product.