Pete McCluskey.
Lifetime Supporter
Mark Webber has signed for another year at Red Bull, so the big question .
Who if anyone will replace Massa at Ferrari.:stunned:
Who if anyone will replace Massa at Ferrari.:stunned:
F1 in 2012
- Thread starter Pete
- Start date
This was a terrific race! Yes, the Ferrari engineers have done some magic with the F2012 car. Well done Webber! Vettel was coming on strong too. where was Hamilton? He has the talent to have better results.
There was a mix up on the tyres. Hamilton got Massa's tyres by mistake.
Terry Oxandale
Skinny Man
Then who got Alonso's last set?
Pete McCluskey.
Lifetime Supporter
Vettel had the Union Jack on his helmet in Qualie WTF does that mean. Has he changed sides?
Pete McCluskey.
Lifetime Supporter
I think our self imposed silence can end about now but just in case
...............................SPOILER........................................................
A superb drive by Alonso especially in Quali.
Hamilton needs a check up from the neck up and a change of attitude, having the big sulk and wanting to retire after a puncture on I think lap two. That really
makes the Sponsors who are funding the $millions he gets paid feel terrific..Not.
I think Vettel's penalty was a bit harsh but having said that, "rules is rules".
An interesting race with tires once again playing a (unnecessary?) part.
...............................SPOILER........................................................
A superb drive by Alonso especially in Quali.
Hamilton needs a check up from the neck up and a change of attitude, having the big sulk and wanting to retire after a puncture on I think lap two. That really
makes the Sponsors who are funding the $millions he gets paid feel terrific..Not.
I think Vettel's penalty was a bit harsh but having said that, "rules is rules".
An interesting race with tires once again playing a (unnecessary?) part.
Yes, interesting that Hamilton and Vettel chose the same Grand prix to show their "class"
Petulant boys the pair of them..
I must say I am disappointed with Vettel. That is not a World Champions response, and as for Horner... :furious:
Alonso class of the field, no doubt. Not a particular fan since crashgate, but he can drive. Seems a very long time ago he was a rookie with Sauber! (As was Kimi as was Massa)
The Curse of Pirelli.. :evil:
So.... no-one knows which flag is the correct one? (post 248)
Come on, there's Paddock Points up for grabs....
Petulant boys the pair of them..
I must say I am disappointed with Vettel. That is not a World Champions response, and as for Horner... :furious:
Alonso class of the field, no doubt. Not a particular fan since crashgate, but he can drive. Seems a very long time ago he was a rookie with Sauber! (As was Kimi as was Massa)
The Curse of Pirelli.. :evil:
So.... no-one knows which flag is the correct one? (post 248)
Come on, there's Paddock Points up for grabs....
Last edited:
Pete McCluskey.
Lifetime Supporter
The top flag is correct the bottom is upside down.
I missed the post race interviews what did Vettel and Horner have to say?
Dayuum. I was hoping for a septic tank to respond but yes, top marks Pete.
Re: Horner & Vettel. RB kind of got their hand caught in the cookie jar over the engine mapping thing, and for some strange reason, they got their knickers in a twist because of Hamilton's move on Vettel to unlap himself which looked fair to me. Vettel & Horner responded by saying "If Hamilton wanted to go faster, he should have dropped back and made himself a gap"
Subsequently they are saying that this "held up" Vettel so that Button was able to do the undercut. Bosh. The undercut was achieved because Button did a 2.4 second pitstop, a full second quicker than Vettel. Astonishing!!
Arrogant bugger. Then we had Vettel's illegal pass on Button. No doubt, all four wheels off the circuit and a slingshot past on a wide radious while Button stayed inside the lines. Of course, Horner said that Vettel had done it to avoid a crash, which their wouldn't have been anyway if Vettel had stayed on the track behind Button! It was clearly Buttons corner. Because the race was within 5 laps of finish they couldn't impose the mandatory drive through penalty for "an illegal overtaing manoevre" so imposed the statutory 20 second penalty instead. Thems the rules.
In reality, basically, run-offs should be treaded as concrete walls not a nifty overtaking opportunity.. Drivers were warned in the briefing so Vettel & Horner thought they'd wing it. If he had have either stayed behind or given Button the place back, he would have still overtaken Button for the end and got himself 18 points instead of 5th place the muppet. Not a day to remember for RB.
Horner comes across as a bit sleazy to be honest, and the team did not cover themselves in glory trying to deflect attention away from their engine re-mapping manoevre. Very clever "exploitation". FIA let them race but say there are still questions to answer and they will revisit it.
Basically what they have done is to stay inside the 95% throttle rule and have remapped the engine so that torque is greatly reduced at 95% throttle. What this achieves, is a blown diffuser effect , whilst reducing the possibility of wheelspin coming out of a corner.
Traction control as a bonus anyone?
Re: Horner & Vettel. RB kind of got their hand caught in the cookie jar over the engine mapping thing, and for some strange reason, they got their knickers in a twist because of Hamilton's move on Vettel to unlap himself which looked fair to me. Vettel & Horner responded by saying "If Hamilton wanted to go faster, he should have dropped back and made himself a gap"
Subsequently they are saying that this "held up" Vettel so that Button was able to do the undercut. Bosh. The undercut was achieved because Button did a 2.4 second pitstop, a full second quicker than Vettel. Astonishing!!
Arrogant bugger. Then we had Vettel's illegal pass on Button. No doubt, all four wheels off the circuit and a slingshot past on a wide radious while Button stayed inside the lines. Of course, Horner said that Vettel had done it to avoid a crash, which their wouldn't have been anyway if Vettel had stayed on the track behind Button! It was clearly Buttons corner. Because the race was within 5 laps of finish they couldn't impose the mandatory drive through penalty for "an illegal overtaing manoevre" so imposed the statutory 20 second penalty instead. Thems the rules.
In reality, basically, run-offs should be treaded as concrete walls not a nifty overtaking opportunity.. Drivers were warned in the briefing so Vettel & Horner thought they'd wing it. If he had have either stayed behind or given Button the place back, he would have still overtaken Button for the end and got himself 18 points instead of 5th place the muppet. Not a day to remember for RB.
Horner comes across as a bit sleazy to be honest, and the team did not cover themselves in glory trying to deflect attention away from their engine re-mapping manoevre. Very clever "exploitation". FIA let them race but say there are still questions to answer and they will revisit it.
Basically what they have done is to stay inside the 95% throttle rule and have remapped the engine so that torque is greatly reduced at 95% throttle. What this achieves, is a blown diffuser effect , whilst reducing the possibility of wheelspin coming out of a corner.
Traction control as a bonus anyone?
Pete McCluskey.
Lifetime Supporter
Thanks Keith understood.
Terry Oxandale
Skinny Man
Thanks for the explanation, but I'm still a bit dense on the use of the exhaust to enhance the diffuser. Regardless, I was quite beside myself when the expected 1st, to 2nd, to 3rd, to 4th run-down on the tires (on the last laps) didn't happen to Alonso.
I guess I need to stay more in tune with the F1 news. Didn't know anything about the penalty (but I didn't see the bad pass either).
I guess I need to stay more in tune with the F1 news. Didn't know anything about the penalty (but I didn't see the bad pass either).
It involves the use of the exhaust gases, directed at an aerodynamic part at the rear of the car (usually the diffuser) which increases downforce. This tactic has been banned in 2012 onwards.
It is further complicated by the FIA rule change which mandates that any such aerodynamic effect must not be able to be exploited at "more than 95% throttle"
This is the clever bit. Normally, any car which turns into a corner will do so on zero or only part throttle for obvious reasons. Software was developed that would enable the throttle to continue at 100% whilst reducing the drive to an appropriate level. The resulting high amount of exhaust gas was channeled towards the rear diffuser which greatly increased downforce in low speed corners. It cannot be disguised as you can hear the RB engine screaming when it should be part throttle.
By staying within the 95% Throttle Rule with their engine map, RB have cleverly got a blown diffuser back which is in the letter, if not the spirit of the rules. It's not cheating, it is a design solution with the rules. The other teams are naturally unhappy and so are the FIA. Although they declared it legal in Germany, look out for a "rule clarification" in Hungary this weekend.
It is further complicated by the FIA rule change which mandates that any such aerodynamic effect must not be able to be exploited at "more than 95% throttle"
This is the clever bit. Normally, any car which turns into a corner will do so on zero or only part throttle for obvious reasons. Software was developed that would enable the throttle to continue at 100% whilst reducing the drive to an appropriate level. The resulting high amount of exhaust gas was channeled towards the rear diffuser which greatly increased downforce in low speed corners. It cannot be disguised as you can hear the RB engine screaming when it should be part throttle.
By staying within the 95% Throttle Rule with their engine map, RB have cleverly got a blown diffuser back which is in the letter, if not the spirit of the rules. It's not cheating, it is a design solution with the rules. The other teams are naturally unhappy and so are the FIA. Although they declared it legal in Germany, look out for a "rule clarification" in Hungary this weekend.
Terry Oxandale
Skinny Man
Thanks Keith! I wonder how truely effective this is, being the power is reduced, and that even at the relatively high throttle setting and RPM, that there is no significant energy exiting the exhaust until full throttle.
You've got to admire the attempt though.
You've got to admire the attempt though.
To be honest, at 19,000 rpm and some 750 horsepowerthe airflow has got to be significant in low speed corners.
The really clever bit was reducing the torque during that map which effectively meant you couldn't spin up the rears during a progressive throttle opening when exiting the corner. Cheap traction control!
Clever.. Anyway, that may be the last you (didn't) see of it! :laugh:
The really clever bit was reducing the torque during that map which effectively meant you couldn't spin up the rears during a progressive throttle opening when exiting the corner. Cheap traction control!
Clever.. Anyway, that may be the last you (didn't) see of it! :laugh:
